Hoops

Is SA basketball in decline?

Think depth. SA Women ran with just 7 players, VIC Metro ran their entire roster, and in fact in the men's game, Vic Metro ran the bench in the second half.

SA Men got spanked by Vic Metro at U20 Nationals to the tune of 51 points.
Whilst the women got up in a close one, this is some cause for alarm.

I think like some of the posts said - we need to take it up at club level or even approach one of the committee members - if you know them.

Come now ppl. We have to work together to solve SA Basketball's woes...fighting will get us nowhere.
So how do we go about restructuring the comp?

Take this matter up with your clubs everyone and lets improve SA basketball throuhg the juniors.

Try again: 173330

I mean post 173332

The person who logged that last anonymous post has their head in the sand and isn't prepared to do the work to ensure their club is successful.
Have you not read posts about what happens in VIC, and for that matter QLD South? They are successful comps and do not work to zoned areas as you would like to implement here in SA. It is attitude's like yours that continue to hold SA basketball back.
VIC clubs do their utmost in order to attract and retain players - and in a far more competitive environment that we are faced with. VIC have poaching rules in place, and yet clubs still achieve. Smaller clubs are rising to the top, and the bigger clubs are still doing well. Are you afraid of some competition for your own club? work hard at attracting, developing and retaininmg players and your club will prosper.
And for your info I am someone from one of the smaller SA clubs after moving across from VIC a few years back. We don't have enough people willing to work their backsides off, but I still see this pro/rel system as being the way to go.
Stop being so self-centered and do what is best for SA basketball!

That's where I got it from.

Check out this link - this is the kind of thing that can draw players to your club through providing quality service and look after them. It is refreshing to hearv someone come out and say it! It is also from one of the up and coming VIC clubs as identified in earlier posts and could help explain why they are starting to do so well.

http://www.warrandyte.basketball.net.au/fs_newsitem.asp?id=76951&orgID=204&Oname=Warrandyte+Basketball+Association&O1c=6&O10c=16

Here here sameolsameol

I can't see how rationalisation will improve the competition and thus the standard of play.
People have continually referred to Melb as an example of where more and more clubs are thriving despite being surrounded by larger associations.
the fact is, to become successful, you have to work hard at it. A lot of the those posting cons about a pro-rel system on this thread appear to be more worried about the big clubs getting bigger. Fact is this has nto happened in Melb, and fact is if you want to do well and get stronger - you have to work hard at it!!!
Work hard over time will get you results. Are there too many lazy people in SA basketball? Is that our problem?

I think for the sake of control and to provide a clear development pathway from district basketball to rep-ball, you can't have your "Jo's Dunking Fleas" or whoever take part.
I know for a fact that only affiliated associations with Basketball VIC can take part in VIC's competition. they also have far more divisions that us.
They have a 20 team top level competition split into two conferences, and then from there on have 4 separate divisions of 10 teams known as Metro 1, 2, 3 & 4 (country teams can still take part of they qualify as part of grading). Once these divisions are filled, they then provide two regional competitions - one for the Eastern side of Melb and one for the North-Western side. They can end up 10 or even more divisions for each age group overall. Now I know we won't get that many - but what's to stop us have more divisions if kids want to play and improve their basketball? That's why they have these regional comps in Melb and from there many good players are then provided with the chance to develop and some make the transition to the top level too. thisa also therefore helps with the bottom-age/top-age thing too.
Anyway, more food for thought.

U12 - U20 competition boys and girls, with a comprehensive, fair and equitable grading system.
Let the best teams play off in the Div 1 and so on through the divisions.
Scrap the summer comp as it is and replace it with grading, and extend the season through the year much like what is done in Melb. I think 10 teams in Div 1, 10 teams in Div 2 and so on should be the starting point though - maybe review after 1 year and then 3 years.
Get your club to push for this - or at least a version of it!!!! Don't sit on your hands!!!
Let's get SA basketball back up with the times!

Change is a good thing people - lets embrace it!
Lets get these changes through so we can move forward like anon said.

Time for an overhaul!
I'm sold on the proposed changes listed in this thread. Our comp and teams will only get better as a result. Time for change is now!

In Vic under 12's this year, clubs have as young as 1999 kids playing - that means these kids have 3 x season at under 12 level. Obviously they start off in the lower grades, but they do get a head start

I'm with sameolsameol on this matter.
By ensuring players and teams play against appropriate levels of competition through an equitable and fair grading system, VIC has not only managed to strengthen their competition, but drawn even more players to it. Participation rates have never been higher - and country clubs are bneing drawn to it in droves as well - all despite petrol prices rising.

Zoning doesn't work.
Using Melb again as an example, in the Eastern suburbs you have all these big clubs such as Knox, Kilsyth, Bulleen, Eltham, Nunawading and Hawthorn. In amongst them you have Blackburn, Ringwood, Camberwell, Doncaster, Collingwood and Warrandyte. They all survive and clubs such as Blackburn and more recently Warrandyte are in fact thriving.
Look at Altona's revival. Corio Bay are now holding their own and retaining players they once lost to Geelong.
Let's stay well clear of zoning thanks.
An open slather qualifying system in place of a summer competition seems to be a fair way to go.

I think everyone who is in agreeance on the competition restructure changes needs to go back to their own clubs and voice their opinions. Gain more support from others and then force your clubs to instigate action. The more support you can gather at each club, the more likely change can take place - for the better too.
Lets get a fair and equitable qualification system going and scrap the summer comp. 2 months worth of hard fought competition for places in divisions can only help the competitiveness of our junior comps.

Pretty much everyone agrees on a change to competition structure - but can anyone on this forum initiate the necessary and much desired change?

Review the age limits for all levels, that is make the comp for under 16's, for 16 years old and below.

That means our comp will fall out of line with every other state and messes with state team selections for Nationals.

Coming from Sturt, I would love to see a better competition implemented as our teams will only benefit - just not sure if our governing heirarchy will see it this way as they are too much unto themselves.

The strong clubs like Sturt will always do well. However if we get the competition structure right, there is no reason why smaller clubs now can further develop and become larger and more successful too. Hard work and talented people help too.
Success breeds success.

Toot - you make some great points.
As long as the best teams in each age group make Div 1 that is what we need.
The recruit and development philosophy in Melb is very evident as you have outlined.
there are other once small clubs such as Corio Bay, Darebin and now Warrandyte are really stepping it up -and doing sio from the younger groups and working from that as a platform to build on.
In fact clubs like Darebin Giants and Warrandyte Venom have gone from relatve obscurity and having just a handful of rep ball teams to now sporting 3 or more teams across every age group - boys and girls.

Let's face it - Sturt are the best and will contionue to be the best despite any changes made!
Make us qualify and we will - always!

I have taken a bit of time to review everything that has been said in this thread.
Overall, I do personally think SA basketball is definitely in decline. However we do have enough passionate and knowledgable people to turn it around.
The competition is not improving and whilst we have a few players still make it to the AIS and national league teams, overall it is but a ripple in the ocean.
Action is needed:
- Overhaul the junior comp structure similar to VIC
- SA basketball to help/do more with getting younger kids into basketball. More marketing, more clinics in schools. Clubs can help by starting up U8 district comps like they already have in VIC and other states etc.
- 36ers to be more active in the community. More clinics at schools etc
- Use our strengths to overcome our weaknesses
Lets all make a difference!!!!

VIC clubs can qalify no more than 2 team in the top division. Maybe one or two clubs get this to happen in an age group, but more often than not you have at least 18 clubs out of 20 possible teams represented. It usually only ends up being the really big clubs like Dandenong, Knox, Nunawading or Kilsyth that ever qualify two teams.

How you know what club I am from, and therefore know how my club voted?
Pro/rel IMO will improve the competition somewhat, but not to the level gained by VIC. A system by which every team has to qualify for the top grade is what we need.

Promotion/relegation isn't necesasarily the answer guys. Each season teams change, players move on, new players emerge.
Instead I like the idea of making each team, each season, play off in grading games to earn the right to play in the top division.
From what I have read in a few posts, my gut feel is that this is what VIC does best. This will always ensure that the best teams from SA are playing against each other every week, and thus making the competition stronger.

After sifting through the posts I think there are some really valid points and ideas worth pursuing for the better of basketball in this state.
The competition structure needs to be changed. I think the notion of implementing a qualifying process for teams across all age groups is a worthy one and warrants immediate attention. Following such a move, this can then be reviewed and further improvements on the process made each year.
It sounds like the VIC model is a good starting point for sure as it looks like just about everyone agrees it is the best at this point in time. Let's give our kids the best possible chance to shine by ensuring the best kids and teams have the opportunity of playing at the top level without having to move to one of the big clubs.
Is there anyone listening out there who can make a difference and initiate change?

I moved from VIC to SA a few years ago and played in both elite competitions. The VIC Comp is way stronger and has better refs too. We had to play in grading games over a few months (bout 7 ot 8 games) to ensure we made the Vic State level. We earnt our place. When i moved here the team I was in didn't have to do nothing. We just knew we would be at the top. even tho it was hard to qualify, it makes you better I reckon.

Well if you are right then Grote, I will stand corrected.

Good to see some passion about SA hoops!
If the clubs are the problem with instigating a fair grading process for juniors, then how is this new committee going to change it? Surely it is still the club's holding the power?
Pressure has to be applied by all associations to have this changed for the future of SA basketball. I can't see a 5-person committee being able to make wholesale changes when there is likely to be opposition from the big clubs that are the ones that will be ultimately affected. I can only hope that they can initiate change as it will only strengthen basketball in this state.
I too want to see some gold medals and see SA basketball as a powerful force in Australian basketball once more.

As a Victorian, we lose plenty of talented players to AFL each year. The U18 TAC cup (AFL) steals some of the best and brightest talents we have in our junior system. Look at what happened with Scott Pendlebury (VIC Country) - he was all signed up for the AIS and then still chose footy over basketball. The list could go on, but you would not have heard of half of them.
A fair and equitable qualifying system is required for each division of juniro basketball. If a team is good enough to be there, then they deserve to play there. VIC Metro used to be the same as SA Basketball is at the moment - it is just SA basketball has not moved with the times and adopted a fair grading system.
Perhaps using the Victorian Junior Basketball League (VJBL) grading model as a starting point is worthwhile?
It is worthy to note that the Victorian's adopted this process in a less complex form around 10 years ago. Since then they have also expanded the number of teams playing top level junior basketball over the years from 10 teams, to 12, 16 and now 20. That means up to 200 kids playing at the top level of basketball at each age group. Not saying that SA should go there yet, but just explaining how the VIC's they have progressed.

Yeah! Does anyone know who is preventing the promotion/relegation thing from happening? this is just plain silly.

A lot of VIC Country associations are also now entering their teams in the VIC Metro competition (Eg. Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Shepparton, Corio Bay, Warragul etc). This helps VIC Country's development, but also helps VIC Metro as well by providing increased competition.
But the elite junior Vic competition do have a complex and thorough grading process to determine what grade or division each team plays in. No club is guaranteed to have a team at the top level - they all have to qualify and earn their place.
I think this is what Grote62 was referring to.

So what is stopping the promotion/relegation thing from actually happening?
Is it the clubs holding it back or is Basketball SA?

Fair point Pasadena. But like Venom said, are we happy with these results? Do we want to do something about it? What can we do to be better?

As much as I'd hate to admit it, Venom is onto something. Our juniors are not as strong in comparison to other states as they used to be. We only have a couple of players at the AIS, otherwise dominated by VIC, QLD and NSW.