Hoops

Kobe must win to become true champion.

Shaq Does need a good wing player, no doubt.

But in his prime years, he would of won on any team that had a 20ppg wing player on it. Or pg for that matter.

Guys, Kobe is an awesome talent, and a winner in a lot of respects, but my point is when all is said and done, and his career is 5-10 years over, will we be saying things like;

' legends of the game like Jordan, Magic, Bird and Kobe'


Does he make that list if he doesn't win a title without a dominant player like Shaq.

Fez- your point about having a player alongside doesn't hold weight because when you say Jordan and Pippen, or Magic and Kareem, or Bird and McHale, the fact is you put the main guys name first.

Like Shaq and Kobe.

If Kobe wins another title it will be Kobe and Gasol.

Then we can talk about maybe Kobe being on the Jordan, Magic Bird realm. I just don't think he is there yet.

Kobe has already won gold. Who gives a shite who it was with.

"Kobe must win to become true champion."?

So anyone that can't win a title on their merit alone isn't a champion? That makes Paul Pierce happy but KG and Ray Ray aren't going to be too happy when you tell them that The Truth is the only true champion on the team and the rest are tag-alongs like Kobe.

Feel free to talk to David Robinson, Tony Parker and Manu and say the same thing while you're at it.

"Sorry guys, but Big Timmy was the man; I'm afraid you're merely saps along for the ride".

I love it how the discussion is when do superstars become legends? I think the difference between this terminology has been played up in this thread, why wouldnt you just agree that all these guys were amazingly successful and talented ballers? Incidentally I agree with the rest of the Quag bashing, respect ya for putting your opinion out mate, but anyone who wins scoring titles, mvp, and 3 championships is legendary by my standards.

BTW agree completely with you Fez

I played with Bird? hehehehe

Kove-for-MVP yes i think Quagmire does KNOW NBA and brings some good discussion to the board on a board that has far to little NBA chat. Just because we don't all agree with his opinions it does bring up some good debate.

I think I agree Kobe is great but yet to reach LEGEND status. But there are very few players who do reach LEGEND status whilst still playing, this is normally something that cames about when people are reflecting on their careers and what they have achieved.


It has been mentioned that perhaps people will forget Kobe and that his titles will always be remebered as Shaq's. Or will Kobe be remebered as a great individual with the ball who seems to be trying his hardest to become more and more of a team man to win a championship. Will he be remembered for his crazy scoring games and as a side note three championships (or more) I feel in time he will be remembered as one of the LEGENDS of the game.

Case could be made for Hakeem AND Duncan to be on the list. But i think you start to split hairs a bit.

Actually no, they both deserve to be there i guess.

I really think that when his career is over, if Kobe doesn't win another ring, he will never be mentined among the legends of the game.

For the record, my ultimate legends of NBA list, no particular order;

Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Hakeem and the walking poo.

Kobe needs to win two more rings for me to put him in this group.

I was with you until you mentioned Hakeem as well. WHAT THE!?

Here is a prediction- D-wade cannot sustain this level all season without wearing down and getting injuries. So many top wing players eventualy wear down over the entire season and end up injured or too weak to carry the load into the post-season. Especially slashers.

It is what separates the MJ's from the rest- he carried teams to 72 wins while managing his health and never pushing too hard.

LBJ is Jordan like in this regard, he will sustain this level and be ready for the play-offs.

(have i just put a huge reverse mocker on the cavs?)

By the way, i have a cyber crush on Chuck Nevitt's point of view re Kobe.

Its a bit of a 'chicken or the egg' question i think.

Having shaq on your team means the wing player (Hardaway, Kobe, D-wade) can cruise and flourish in the fourth. He also creates the space for these guys to operate.

Just look at what happens when he leaves- Hardaway couldn't bare the load, injuries robbing us of a star. Kobe floundered until getting his Gsaol of life. (there is your side-kick Mutley) and Wade succombed last season to the weight of the load.

My thinking is any dude that can be the man on three differen't teams that make the finals, is a player to be feared.

Bizzy- don't blame Shaq for the suns this season, dude is still averaging 20/10 lately on old knees carrying 350 pounds in limited minutes, blame Amare. (you had to know that was coming!)

Bizzy, he didn't take over because they didn't give him the ball often enough. I remember watching that series and thinking what are they doing, in every set offense he should touch the ball at least once but often he would go several trips down the floor without touching the ball. Kobe wanted to win it all by himself.

"For me, Kobe will be on the sub list along with the Malones, the Barkleys and the Pippens, the Thomas's the Hakeems and the Wests.

Not bad company ffs! But not a full blown legend of the game. I think he would definately need to win another title, probably two since he has stumbled onto another chock a block roster..."

Does that make Robert Horry 'King of the sub list' for all his rings?

"Also it doesn't matter if you are one of the best players in the league, the league is so competitive now that to say he must win a title now without shaq is unfair due to the competitive nature of the league. They might possibly win it this year but if doesn't it wont be no huge shock."

That seals it for me then really.

The league is competitive every year.

Would Jordan, Russell etc accept the 'its a competitive league' cop-out? Hell no, they won time again.

Shaq won time again.

Magic, Kareem, Bird.

For me, Kobe will be on the sub list along with the Malones, the Barkleys and the Pippens, the Thomas's the Hakeems and the Wests.

Not bad company ffs! But not a full blown legend of the game. I think he would definately need to win another title, probably two since he has stumbled onto another chock a block roster...

Ok everyone let's get behind our Laura with a well wishing email

the training camp has about 24 hopefuls and they will narrow it down to 11 + 2 injured over the next few days / weeks

email Rachel at conn sun -

rmanke@connecticutsun.com

do it now !

let's show them what a wise choice they have made canvassing a couple of SA champion players!

Rachel has told me she will make sure any emails get thru to Laura