Hoops

Boomers vs New Zealand - Game 2 ***LIVE***

Pledger has def put his hand up for a spot a the WC. Rickett doesn't bring alot offensively but his rebounding and hustle would def be an asset to NZ at the worlds. We just need another couple of scorers to help Penny out.

Bill - you beat me to post 100! Arrrgh!

Agreed. And I wanted to post a reply to be number 100 for this thread!

Agreed Paul

If Rickert was eligible he might help but his game has deteriorated to garbage status.Only seems to go left for his right J hook. Pledger not as strong but a way better 15-20'J would be more productive. Dickel won't be required and Jones would only play if Penney was injured. They both can't play at same time from a defensive standpoint.
Rightly you point out the team lacks offence and there is no way Vukona will repeat his G2 heroics. BJ could help but he is small internationally. Abercrombie still seems a little hesitant but he has got some skills if he can just take that next step.
Webster a little erratic. Penney showing much better creative skills making passes which he has not shown in past so that might help.

.. and only one shooter in the starting lineup - wouldnt put too many points on the board.

If Rickert can get back to the 18p 12r player hewas in his first year he will be handy internationally, but the lacking power and athleticism 13p 9r Rickert is still around I think he is just good for small minutes at the WCs.

Would be a nice line-up for sure. Won't happen. Dickel is past his prime, and Marks will not play. Still, NZ will not be the worst team at the next WC.

My tuppence worth about BJ. He was a revelation. The difference between him and Bradshaw is that he wants the ball in the low block and makes use of his put it on the floor skills to wheel and take it to hoop or shoot the turnaround.He was not inmtimidated by Jawai and out quicked him. I have always considered him too short except at Avondale HS where 6'4" was plenty big enough. How tall is he now? Bradshaw continually wants to live on the perimeter and finds it more comfortable facing the basket. Thats the last thing the Tall Blacks need from their only genuine big. Pero has got a lock on that roll.
Sorry Paul have to take issue over Tab, the team barely changed throughout his tenure. He inherited a veteran team from Keith Mair and what did he leave? True Mika, and Tait were given bit parts but who else? Agreed after that 4th placing at the Worlds the emphasis did change to results as a priority, but look at what he left Nenad, Kirk, Mika and an ageless, oft injured Pero. Nenad is developing a broad base and the medium term prospect is bright.

Right about Bradshaw’s performance in Melbourne that night in 2006, but it wasn’t the FIBA Oceania Championship, it was just a four game warm up before the WCs (Oceania Champs are in odd years).

Anthony had a crack in both games and defended well, but before you get too carried away look at his numbers for the series. Just a guy who contributed a little bit off the bench, albeit a pleasant surprise and promise for the future given his age.

As for this squad not playing next year, BBNZ was given a clear directive after 2007 to play young players or lose funding. Penney, Vukona, Pledger, Abercrombie, Webster, Tait and Loe will all be in Turkey. Anthony would be a fair chance if he continues to improve in Germany.

Cameron and Bradshaw will come back in, and maybe Rickert if he is naturalised. Is Dickel still interested after two years off? He was terrible in 2007. I think NZ is better off blooding the young players in Turkey.

Bradshaw can go play in korea forever.

Out of our big guys on the current Boomers team, Baynes is the best defender of the lot of them. You have to keep in mind that Baynes played 4 years of college ball in a defensively minded Washington State program and he started for 3 of those 4 years. Not having Baynes on court at times was detrimental to the Boomers defence.

An angry Baynes could have been a huge difference. Could have, should have, he was enver given a chance - rightly or wrongly. We just don't know!

I was at the game. Anthony did a great job, but to say that performance was better than any of Bradshaw's is ignorant and incorrect.

Bradshaw was named MVP of the FIBA Oceania Championship a few years ago, when he scored 25 points in the Tall Blacks first ever win in Melbourne.

Its unfortunate that Bradshaw has gone off the rails though.

Isaac, I actually don't know if Baynes would have changed the result, because I have never seen him play. I'm purely basing it on the fact that we were heavily out-rebounded, Ogilvy and Jawai couldn't defend the rim and Baynes was the only other possibility on the roster.

So in the sense that we were short-handed in the big man department, we clearly needed Baynes to step up, but he never got the chance. I just don't know if it was his fault or the coaching staff!

Baynes first air-ball wasn't his fault - he received the ball with only a second or so on the shot clock and had to heave it up.

The second one was his fault. He ended up on the perimeter passing the ball in to Jawai in the post and Jawai was waving for him to move away from that side of the floor, because his man was sagging off and doubling in the post. Unfortunately Baynes didn't move off and Jawai was forced to kick it out to him with the shot clock running down.

At that point he got dragged, but I assume he would have come back in once the coaches had straightened him out. I saw that animated discussion on the bench and Baynes didn't look happy. But what I want to know is the actual reason for his not playing the rest of the game?

Its a pretty significant thing for the coach to not play a guy we clearly needed when we were in deep trouble in a game that is for WC seeding and the Trans-Tasman trophy (forgot what it is called).

So was the decision justified or not? My guess is that it probably was, but I don't really know, not being a good lip reader!

"an angry young 7 footer was what we needed !! "

Ben Pepper has retired.

Bill, a bit harsh on Tab – he was the one who developed the last lot of blokes, now Nenad is bringing through the next generation. Tab was trying to win, the current crop of youngsters weren’t ready at that stage, and he did give Tait and Vukona opportunities.

Gaze selected Brown - keep him away!

Bagging Ingles is a bit harsh, he got Ogilvy to finally make a contribution thanks to Joe's outstanding passing out of the pick and roll.

How much better does AJ look away from the low block, catching the ball on his way to the basket? Shame we didnt run more high pick and roles, NZ had few answers to it but instead we went back to throwing the ball to the low block??

But yes, couldnt really leave AJ on much, as his rebounding and defence are just a massive concern. Still, give him time and he may develop to the level required.

Good point about Baynes. Does anyone know what actually happened? Isaac - any inside info on that?

LC, thanks for the info Ogilvy. With regard to the substitution issue, I think that would have amounted to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!

As I mentioned above, after Baynes was benched, we had only three big men, one of which was Oscar, who wasn't the player we needed. We basically needed both Jawai and Ogilvy in at the same time, but if we did that, we wouldn't be able to bring in any fresh legs. So I think Brown just decided he was going to rotate the two big guys and hope Oscar could do some damage offensively (which unfortunately didn't eventuate).

Actually, with regard to Baynes, there still appears to be no mention of his benching in the media. I think it says it all about the quality of basketball coverage that we get, that Brown doesn't seem to have been asked why he benched one of his big guys when we desperately needed rebounding and defensive help. He should have been asked and his answer should have been included in the match report.

Yep - seen quite a few of AJ's games. He is definitely an offensive player first and foremost and is a highly skilled on at that too! He has great moves in the post, regulalry draws fouls and gets to the line, and is also a great passer of the ball -clearly evident at Vandy where they have a plethora of spot up 3-point shooters.

Vanderbilt play primarily man-toman defence, but AJ is not the best defender on the team by any stretch of the imagination. He has shown he can be affective on help defence as he averaged 1.5 blocks per season at college. But he does have his obvious troubles both guarding the post (strength) and on the perimeter (foot speed).

I predominantly agree with DraftExpress' assessment of AJ in relation to his defensive abilities and rebounding:

- "He is clearly nothing more than an average defender at best, as he often gives up position deep in the post to opposing big men, struggles to move his feet rotating inside the paint, and displays questionable lateral quickness trying to defend the perimeter with his flat-footed upright stance."

- "Getting stronger will help, but he’ll need to get tougher and more aggressive as well, particularly on the glass, where he appears to get outhustled at times going after rebounds." But in relation to this comment, AJ picks up a lot of his reounds on the offensive end and can read the ball well.

However during Game 2 when we were struggling to score, I found it comical that he was left sitting on the bench considering he was our most effective scoring option in the game! Brown's substitutions and on-court mixes at times were puzzling to say the least!

Bill, enjoy your win mate. Your boys definitely gave you optimism for the future. Pledger looked very solid and Abercrombie showed some good flashes with his alley and a jumper in the last quarter.

I don't think it was an error for the Boomers to play Oscar so much in the game though. It was actually forced on Brown through a combination of poor team selection and Wortho getting injured.

That problem was magnified when Baynes got yanked after 53 secs by Brown and never returned to the game. After that, the Boomers big man rotation was Ogilvy, Jawai and Oscar.

Basically, Brown found out the hard way that Jawai is too slow to rotate on defence and Ogilvy is too inexperienced to play it consistently. Placed in that situation, Oscar was always on a hiding to nothing, because he hasn't got the bulk/ rebounding ability to hold down the keyway by himself.

LC, was it you who said they had seen a bit of Ogilvy at Vandy? Could it be that Ogilvy plays a lot of zone in college? Because he really looked lost out there trying to rotate effectively in the man to man.

Isaac, I had the idea that Khazzouh and Matt Knight were already overseas chasing contracts and that was why they weren't available for the Boomers? At least I hope they weren't available, because based on last nights game, those two guys would clearly have done a better job defensively and on the boards and should have been selected.

Gaze said he was involved in the Boomers last camp. Give him a more prominent role I say, it's gotta only be a matter of time surely.

If someone knows international ball, it is that man through and through.

I woke up this morning and just didn't feel right. There is an emptiness inside of me, a distinct feeling of hurt and disappointment...

we'll take that.

sure aus was missing some quality players. we'll still take it.

props to the youngsters who got it done. Jawai looked below average and Newley and Ingles had a tough job but played well.
Pledger was awesome
BJ Anthony got it done.
I never thought that was going to happen :)

Nice summary Beantown. Tall Blacks caught the momentum train in that third quarter (and except for a jittery minute or two early in 4th Quarter),that was enough to open up a psychological gap that had Boomers under pressurethe rest of the way. And of course when you are riding that wave things go for you. Mika banking a three from out front(never mind all of his jumpers AND FREE THROWS, Penney shoots from corner and gets the friendliest kiss off the glass,what looked like a turnover breakaway and Joe Ingles just clips Fitchetts heels, but thats what sport is all about and the Boomers have to fight through that.
Personnel wise, Boomers erred badly playing Oscar so much in that third quarter. Not that he did too much wrong its just that he can't contribute in that situation and of course his defence is so weak. Can only presume this misguided thinking comes from Andrei (given that same senario at Breakers). Newley was classy and we couldn't shut him down. Ogilvy with those pick and rolls to hoop looked much better than G1 and its hard to see why he didn't play much in that dreaded 3rd quarter. What was with the Peter Crawford sub in then 4th, never sighted in series and asked to perform a miracle???
Penney played it perfectly last night. Did not overshoot and made passes. Mika was the man. But the most telling contribution came from Alex Pledger with his offensive board work and medium range set shots.
That game gave the TallBlacks confidence and lifted the Basketball public's moral after a the TAB era where little if any development took place. To the future. the YOUNG BLACKS!!!

Well, gotta give the Kiwis props - they played hard and shot the lights out in the 3rd and our young guys completely lost composure when those shots started going in.

Prior to that, we looked the better offensive team, with the Kiwis having no answer to either Jawai in the post or Ingles/ Newley with the pick and roll. Given the way we were executing those plays with ease, I am surprised a few people on here were critical of our offence.

It wasn't our offence that was the problem. That only fell apart once the Kiwi blitzkrieg got running and our guys lost their composure.

The F*ING GIGANTIC problem was that our team couldn't stop a slightly energetic turtle from getting to the basket!

Jawai - whoever brought up Zee-bo earlier is right on - great low post scorer but like Randolph has ZERO mobility and can't get up to block shots, hence that Benny Anthony character was scoring like he was back in state league at one point!

Ogilvy was generally decent tonight, but he's no centre and not a strong enough rebounder or physical presence to hold down the middle by himself.

Baynes - what happened? He was out of position on one play early and was forced to jack up an awful three, then they showed him having a spit during a timeout and didn't see him after that. He must have seriously pissed Brown off, because the coach decided to run only Ogilvy and Jawai for the rest of the game and he must have known our lack of size was killing us!

As LC and others pointed out earlier, combine no paint defence with nearly non-existent rotations and the Kiwis were basically able to do as they pleased.

As with the last time we lost a series to NZ, we were just too under-manned. If we'd just had a fit Schenscher, that would probably have made all the difference defensively. But to fair to Brown, Luke was too unfit when the team was picked and has only just been picked for the team to China today.

I actually thought Ingles and Newley were pretty good, with both clearly too good for their opponents offensively. They were ok on the defensive end, but clearly need the help of a good defensive rotation and our big men were just too slow afoot to help them out. Worthington would have been massive for us in this regard, being able to get out to stop penetration off high screens and recover to defend the basket.

I agree that Dellavedova showed he had a cool head and is a keeper for the national program.

Harvey looks shot - too slow on defence and too hesitant about his role on offence.

Oscar was out of his depth unfortunately. He never should have been asked to start for Worthington and Vukona burned him badly. Can anyone else believe Vukona top scored with 26 points and had 12 rebounds and 2 blocks?!?!

All in all, terrible loss for the Boomers. Historic win for the Kiwis, who will take a great deal of confidence from this game.

I learnt two things from this series:

Pledger > Ogilvy

Brett Brown < Brian Gorjian

Here is my breakdown on the massive 100-78 loss:

- Jawai was good in second half (5/7), then sat too long in third when NZ got on a run. He then only nailed two more shots for the rest of the game and went 7/15 on shooting.
- Ogilvy was very impressive tonight, particulary in offence 14 points on 7/8 shooting. Only played at best around 4min in second half - why so few minutes when we were struggling to score???
- When NZ got on a big run in the 3rd, it took something like 8 straight points from NZ before a timeout was called. We were putting up shite and coach Brown did nothing to stem the flow before it got so big. After that run the Boomers never recovered.
- Delly was about our best player when everything was falling apart around him. What does that say about the other players on court in the 4th?
- Newley played well and tried hard - sometimes too hard as he tried to lift his team and thus forced a few too many
- James Harvey was a non-factor and played very poor D
- Boomers ran with a 4 guard 1 centre strategy later in the game and got smoked
- Rotation on defence on pick and rolls and on doubles was truly awful
- Rebounding was terrible again - lacked effort and desire to box out
- Ingles took some terrible shots in 4th quarter when things were not going well

Overall, the first half was not great, and was similar to the first game but we were able to effectibely score inside most of the time and mixed it up reasonably well.I thought the coaching was terrible. I am all for giving Brown a chance, but to me he caused a lot of the problems in the second half when thing got out of hand. Took too long to call a timeout, bad mix of players on court. Should have had Jawai, Ogilvy, Newley, Ingles and Delly on in 3rd quarter as they got the Boomers going in the 2nd.

For me, the positives for Australia were Dellavedova, AJ Ogilvy and Newley who I though played well but let himself down a few times by trying to do to much to bail his team out.

That will do for now...I'm still seething over the loss and more importantly the way we lost. It was really bad.

Yeah baby, thats how we do it. Congratz to NZ..We wanted it more and we got it. Ka Pai

Fantastic effort by Nenad and the boys. Couldn'thave scripted it better. And the trophy to boot.

I'm embarassed as to how bad we are playing right now...

Boomers offence has been tarrible in 2nd half, but our defense has been even worse - no weakside help when we double the ball and no rotation whatsoever

Boomers had a poor lineup on court in 3rd and couldn't hit the side of the barn. AJ is 6/6 from the field and yet didn't see any action in the third!!!!
Boomers down 55-74 heading into 4th

A 19 point lead eeahh. Aussie look really rattled. No composure. So long as they don't heat up from downtown we might be able to hang on!!!!

Coach Brown made a huge blue in the 3rd qrtr, allowing NZ to go on a 12 point to nothing run before he finally called a time out. Really bad coaching

Abbbercrombbiieeeeee Ive been waiting a game and a half for him to do something. It was worth the wait. Brown still playing Oscar????

You're right about Dan Henessey. Irritating as hell. Thank god the basketball is getting better. Thank god Newley is ice cold as well. Hope it lasts.

Jawai putting on a clinic down low. Will be tough to contain in 2nd half. Ogilvy also having better game. Tall Blacks are still struggling to defend high pick and roll but compensating by attacking Ogilvy and Jawai and getting dish offs. Damn. Corey and Tait turnovers just before half gave Aussie a leg up we could have done without. BJ having a storming game shooting in Jawai's face. Got to keep it up for another half.... Kirk doing a better job of handling the attention by coming out taking ball and waiting for screen.

Commentating is terrible - that american is driving me insane!

Jawai and Ogilvy have looked really good tonight so far, as have Gibson and Newley in particular.

Still, we do not always seem to be rotating on defence and thus too often we end up allowing a relatively easy shot. When we do rotate, there have been some big rejections.

Jawai is hitting the shots he missed a few nights ago.

Hre is a link I found: http://www.justin.tv/tipsters_

Can anyone provide a link?

Looking for something decent, maybe the old Jordan VS Bird game. Know any good ones?

PS: Why can't you sign up to watch FIBA TV Paul? You should be able to as I did about a week ago to test it out using a 24-hour day pass for US$5.00.

I had no problem i signingb up to FIBA TV!!! But you are right, there will be a pirate broadcast or two floating around, hence the www.atdhe.net/ link I posted earlier.

Game starts at 5pm in Adelaide and 5:30pm in Eastern states.

Cant get FIBATV feed in Aus or NZ, unfortunately, but their are some pirate broadcasts out there.

I too am confused about the starting time.