Hoops

Is it good for the game?

No, I am guessing it's DJ Rod.

What was interesting, HAHA? You think I have "baited" you?

Interesting...

Maybe it is your favourite baiter from OzHo TC2, the one who is banned from here, yet references the site in every post.

Well done, anon. Don't put your name to it, tough man.

Nothing I have said in this thread is baiting or shit stirring. It's called a discussion.

Ok, I know that wasn't the real HAHA so I won't bite.

I haven't once put words in your mouth. I said that the "facts" that you had of 4 people is not good enough to convince me that the general public would be put off my the incident. If you think that is putting words in your mouth, then it's you having comprehension issues.

The silly thing is that I could say the same thing about you. You have posted the same amount of stuff as me, you still aren't seeing my point of view, you're constantly not respinding to what is written in front of you, instead looking for a quick escape. It's you talking shit - I'm surprised you haven't threatend me with your giant 6'4" frame yet.

Don't try and take some high ground here, HAHA. You couldn't be bothered explaining because you're not often challenged here and as soon as I did, you went straight for the easy way out. Now you're trying to make out that I just don't understand. Thats pissweak.

You have made the statement that you have FACTS of what everyone thinks based on your four pizza-eating friends. You are trying to say you are open-minded but you use that example (of people who don't give a shit about the game anyway) of what the general public might think.

If you actually did have to re-invent the wheel and sell this new wheel to consumers, are you going to target motor vehicle drivers as your demographic, or people that choose not to drive a car?

We were just talking about Hodge's celebration though. Hodge can get the fans in, then they can see what a good solid player Balls is.

I still don't believe targetting the people who don't give a shit about basketball is in any way a good business plan, especially not at the expense of proper fans. Does that mean that we have to have rule explanations at half time of telecast games?

I just couldn't be bothered continuing a discussion where I'd have to reinvent the wheel first.

So is Hodge's antics going to ruin the chances of getting those? Is Kerry Stokes going to look at the foot stomping and go running? Or, if the next rematch is a sell-out when those casual fans return and see what a decent game it is, will he realise that it is a worthwhile product to invest in?

So what is missing then?

The league understands what's missing and where and they're directly addressing those issues that people like you just don't hear.
We're not even reading the same book let alone on the same page so we'll just agree to disagree... it's not worth it.

HAHA, you are trying to start an argument that just isn't there. I did not put words in your mouth at all - I am just saying that your quick survey of four people is not proof of anything.

I don't like soccer. Never have, never will. Do you think the A-League is doing its best to reach out to me at the expense of long time supporters? No, they aren't, and I don't expect them too. Even if they did something to attract my attention, I would make some jokes about them being soft and divers and I'd turn a blind eye, just like your 4 mates did. Why would they bother doing anything to make their game more appealing to me?

I'd say the issues with the league in the past few years are more about retaining existing fan bases rather than attracting new ones. How can we expect new fans to come along when the old ones are dropping like flies?

You don't need to give me a run down of how the business world works, but thanks. I'm quite sure that a business is going to go after a demographic first and foremost - to make that demographic to be a group who generally doesn't give a shit about the product...well, you tell me which is more suicidial.

Hodge's antics are not good for the game, Adelaide 36ers playing like their predecessors in the 1980s through to the early 2000s is. Once again Adelaide lost a game in O/T, that they should have won in regular time. If they had, I don't think Hodge would have performed his post match antics the same way.

I sit in the south stands, row N, so I had a pretty good view of the stomping and the aftermath. As far as I can recall, Ben Fitz didn't touch Hodge - several other people got in between them before he even got close.

Fine the Prick. It surely has to be similar to "inciting a revolt" by performing such direspect in the home state and 'honoured' area of a true loyal champion.
They should suspend him, but will be too afraid of upsetting Melbourne

I didn't say it was suffient subject size TC2 you're putting words in my mouth- it was said to get you to consider that the general public don't look at this game the way we do- there are all sorts of perspectives out there and we have to respect all of them because if we don't then we can't understand them and if you can't understand them, you're not cluey enough to sell to them.
That then becomes boo on you, not boo on them for feeling the way they feel- they're entitled to feel how they want until you're smart enough to change them.

As for the friends I can say what I can but really it's their choice at the end of the day, we can't all go around trying to convert individual people when there are guys like Hodge undoing other people's work.

To take the high road and say we shouldn't be interested in converting them is the very same mentality this game has had for too many years which has kept this game relegated to minimal exposure- it's condoning what we want changed and it's lazy.
Nor does it bring the dollars in and if the clubs need to run more like businesses, you're sure as shit not going to achieve that with an attitude that you don't care if you get customers or not.
Every smart business needs and proactively nurtures its business- not doing so is arrogant slow release suicide.

Really though, is there anything that could have happened that would have converted your 4 friends? If thewy were just bagging it because they are like plenty of other haters out there, then those people can't be converted and we shouldn't be interested in trying to attract them. We were talking about the casual fan earlier - these guys aren't casual fans, they just don't like the sport. if we are talking about people who used to go, or if they have some interest in the game, they might be more inclined to attend the next game because of the atmosphere.

In any case, I really don't think that is a proper sample size. As you said, it was one comment, some laughter, and then a subject change. Sorry, you'll have to do better than that to convince me.

I'm mostly suggestion to be OPEN at least to the possibility of it either decreasing or just not increasing.
In my house already there are 4 visitors who were turned off by it- that's not my assumption that is a fact- 4 people just in my house alone so how can you say it would definately add to the game when I have an example of it right here where it doesn't add?

How am I looking at it from an insiders perspective? I am saying that the recent incidents will lead to bigger sales. You're saying it will lead to a decrease. Whether we are Insiders or not, I don't see how this will lead to a whole bunch of people jumping off board.

I thought my previous post was actually looking at the bigger picture and not how any individual may feel.

TC2 again you're looking at it from an inside perspective.
It's not about us and how we look at it and justify it.
It's about everybody else out there OTHER THAN us.
We show up regardless, but those that think it's idiotic behaviour choose not to show up and that is their right if the game overall hasn't sent them the right signal.

The whole Hodge thing was good for the game. It built it up and made people pay attention.

The disrespect after the game was not. After the siren sounds, that's it, all said and done. Acting like an idiot after you've won the game isn't good for the game as a whole; it just makes yourself and your team look foolish.

If you're looking at becoming a sponsor of a sport, you'll go where you will get the most exposure. Now I know that doesn't mean much in the current NBL climate but if more people start attending games because of the latest incidents (which is the most likely outcome and the most immediate impact) then we have stronger clubs and a stronger league. This leads to a bigger share of tv and media coverage, which is when the investors you are talking about come on board.

I understand what you're saying but you're looking at it from an inside perspective of those already involved in the sport (sponsors and fans who come to games) but I'm referring moreso to those who barely dip their toes in the water and those who are against the idea- they're the ones that need to get on board.

It's not criminal activity that wasn't my angle but long after guys like Hodge leave this league in the next few months likely to not be seen here again and are an afterthought, what do outsiders think of the game then- is last night's behaviour what they will associate the game with when on other days of the week they pay no attention to this game?

It has to be looked at from a business perspective and if I was just a member of the public and saw a business who acted like idiots I'd think twice about giving them my money if I have other options of where I can spend it.

Put it this way, I don't think people or sponsors are going to be turning away from the game after the most recent episodes, and there will be more fans at the rematches than there were for these games.

We're talking small dust-ups here, not major criminal activity, or Artest-esque stadium-clearing brawls. Having this shown as the first items on Sports Tonight can only be a good thing.

I have friends over right now who know nothing about basketball and were here sharing pizza when the footage came on and that's what one of them said while the others agreed, laughed and changed the subject!
To get the game to appeal to people from a business perspective, this is now how to get them to open their wallets to you.
It's good for the players and us, but it's not really good or appealing or going to convert the knockers.

When basketball in this country is at a point where the doors to the stadiums are bursting at the seams with people clamouring for seats and everybody else watching from home, maybe then we can afford to not care as much about the outside perspective.
But for as long as we need those people to change how they feel about the game, it's not what's going to bring them- it's a moment of amusement and that's about all.

How do you know the casual observer calls it a dumb American sport and leaves it?

I'm not saying I condone it. To be honest, I actually do hope that he gets punished by the league, or his club for that matter. But no matter what the issue, no matter if it's an on-court thing or a player behaving badly, this is much needed publicity for the league.

TC@ how can you be so sure that it definately has a positive impact on the league?
Is that your/our feeling on the matter or the average joe's feeling on the matter?
I don't think you can use a blanket assumption especially in a day and age where the public no longer turn a blind eye to athletes behaving like idiots and are increasingly demanding accountability and rightly so.

I think generally it's human nature to be intrigued by these sorts of controversies. Despite it being insulting or disrespectful, whether the player in question gets fined/suspended or whether the league does nothing, if he is a repeat offender, or it involves a big star or not - it has people talking about it and at the end of the day, no matter whether the issue is naughty or nice, it has a positive impact on the league.

Ch9 say that the NBL have asked for 'This footage'

The casual user and the guy who sees that and says to himself or the missus or in front of the kids, "Pfft, dumb American sport..." and leave it at that.

I'm not even from Adelaide and although I live there on and off, even if I'd never been there I'd still find that outrageous behaviour for an American import to disgracefully disrespect a local hero.
It practically says, "I don't care who your icons are in this country, it's all about me and what I feel like doing on the night."
The comments he has made since then to still justify it is proof that he just doesn't understand and doesn't even want to, and that is the saddest part.

It is good for the game for those of us that know the game and love the game but the concern is, it's not just about us.
What do those who don't follow the game think at first glance?
That's what you have to think about- for some out there, it's a moment of basketball on the brain and a quick justification to not bother with it.
That stuff simultaneously helps and hinders the game, and at a time where we want more people involved not just the ones that are already here, it doesn't send a professional message.

I totally agree! although i never want this to happen again (and trust me either does Hodge), any publicity is good publicity, and im all for getting the NBL in the public eye!