Hoops

Referee Abuse Letter

Good luck getting your $6 back!!

All good points Jack, Very Old. BUT methinks we need a paradigm shift to fix this problem. From my days as a netball dad (at the mercy of the netball nazi's/fat controllers depending on your historical bent) they come at it from a different perspective.

All teams are required to perform duty at a young age (and an old age if they are in the lower grades). I still remember walking with my 10-year-old on the sidelines of an U8's game and having to 'gently' remind some of the parents they were not only watching an 7 year-olds, the person they having a go at was 10, and more importantly, they were wrong! None of those referees are paid yet they manage to provide two for every game (and yes, they roster spares to be standing by at the clubhouse for when somebody doesn't show up).

The netball officials brook no argument with their officials - gee, you can be suspended for having your shirt untucked I'm sure! But for mine that carries a lot more weight when the person they are defending isn't putting their hand out for money and looking like they'd rather be at the dentist. One game, get out of there. Not four games a night for $60 (or whatever the going rate is).

The umpires they do have who progress are genuinely passionate about it - they have to be - there's nothing else in it for them.

Maybe if we are all volunteers we'll work together better? A lot easier to ask someobdy to referee a game as a fill-in too if nobody is getting paid?

Very Old,
You are wise with age and I thank you for taking the time to come down from the mountain.

You have struck some very big nails on the head, but the big one is the litigation. So, lets just say that there's a game that gets completely out of control and ends in someone getting hurt, and that child's parents are some kind of nasty who decide to sue BSA. The first thing that would happen would be the judge would ask "Why was there only one ref?" Case dismissed.

Forget about umpiring standard/attitude etc for the minute. You can't please everyone and we can all agree to disagree about standards and competencies. Forget about what BSA should or shouldn't do, I think we all agree BSA could do a lot of things better than they do. A common issue that crops up is games with only one ref. Anyone who says the standard of reffing is the same with one ref as two needs a good look at themselves.

Now, there are times when the scheduled ref can't make it (sick, caught in traffic, can't find glasses etc) and times when they just can't get refs, but the Stadium Manager should have a backup plan. Perhaps that is the part of solution we should focus on first.

Is there a procedure for getting refs at short notice? Do stadiums need a supply of green shirts for volunteers?

Some associations have rules where if the rostered referees are not available, than each team must provide a referee ( badge or not) before the game can start. Generally the stadium manager then sends those "volunteers" across to another court.

There was ( very old , early 80's) NSW case law where a decision was made in favour of a plaintiff where the Basketball association was held liable for a player injury because their court manager allowed a game to be officiated by only one person. By definition , basketball games requires 2 referees to be a basketball game, not necessarily both badged, but at least 2 adults if not accredited. ( interesting because the judgement indicated that an untrained, un-badged adult was ok to officiate and cover the Duty of care , but a trained badged referee, who was not badged to the required level - say ABA - would not be seen as fulfilling the associations duty of care. )

If the parents and spectators who are so concerned in this thread had simply put their hand up to go and referee one of the other u12 games, then their little darlings may have had 2 badge referees, while the other game could have received the full benefit of their own expert refereeing skills.

But they are clearly far too ( something ??- pick a word) to have either thought of or done that.

In social junior grades in NSW, I've actually handed my team over to another club coach and refereed the other game to free up a ref for my team, not that big a deal.

I'm all for refs and their supervisors to be held accountable for their actions and poor performances, but we're still talking about u/12s here!! And now u/10s? Does anyone really think that showing an 8 year old how to yell out/criticise/abuse/complain to a ref is the best action to take?

Interesting that there is so many replies sniping about refs, coaches, players, other posters etc but nowhere has anyone come up with a suggestion to fix the issue. Sure there have been comments of BSA should be held resposible for this, they cant do that, we should ge a refund but no positive suggestions as to how we can get more refs available to control games.

Unfortunately it seems there are always plenty of people happy to sit back and criticise but not willing to see the big picture and actually help be part of the solution to the problem moving forward.

So can I just clarify something completely unrelated to the specific game?

It seems there is a general consensus here (at least on the part of those alleging abuse of referees) that BSA bears no resposnibility for either the provision of an adequate number of referees nor ensuring the safety of either their players or their employees (the referees).

It seems to me there is a contractual relationship between BSA and their players. This implies that they agree to provide a safe environment. Perhaps the Code of Conduct is a step in this direction. Just as there is a contractual relationship between BSA and their employees.

What happens to money saved when three games pay only one referee? Is it directed to improving referee training or recruiting? Is the lone referee compensated for having to go solo? Or does it simply go to consolidated revenue and make the managers' monthly financial reports to the Board look better?

Nobody who has seen any of my previous posts would be surprised to learn I think refereeing has enormous room for improvement. But by and large, so too does sports administration. Most sports administrators are happy to trot out the 'we have to run this like a business line' when justifying fees, rep levies and raffles but are most reluctant to be held to business-like standards of customer service and product delivery.

Reluctantly I agree with Mike that a 'consumer' is entitled to expect their 'product' to be delivered. If there is a sub-standard product in the market it generally gains market share by reducing its price - unless of course its a monopoly - like sport!!

Or is it just me? It seems we hold all in the sport to professional standards, particularly on this thread, players and coaches (none of whom are paid - at least at U12 level to the best of my knowledge). Yet those that are actually paid (where the vast majority of our fees go) are held to weekend sports standards.

Charon35, I like your style! sound like a good idea. Nothling like getting what you pay for. I might go to work tomorrow. start a job that requires 2 people, send one home and then do a half ass job but charge the customer the full price. Do you think they would be happy?

outsider is it BASA that sorts out the refs? Is it BASA that takes all the money at the door? Then that makes them responsible, pehaps writing them a letter isnt a silly idea.

Anonymous,if thats what the code of conduct says then guilty as charged. I think at times the word abuse is sometimes incorrecly used. My definition of abuse and your is quite different.


anonymous
(again there seems to be so many people with the same name) Has the cout rulled? Is cries of How long ref and Foul going to be out lawed, considered abuse? Because in that case I am as guilty as charged and await my punishment. As for the last comment, it would be nice to see two ref's at all games idiot! Not sure why you have such a problem understanding this, its not really that difficult.2 ref's seem to do a better job than 1.(ah der!)As for you yelling at you team, whatever float ya boat! Iam sure it would only include such frases as "Go Team" or "you can do it" or maybe that classic 'Defence cha cha cha" It seems to be the opinion of many that under 12's has no importance? I am sure it did when you kid played. I think you missing the point a little. lets all be sarcastic shall we, because that always helps.

Mike....you're a dickhead. It's friggen under 12's, you're bagging the refs, the system, the other teams, and pumping up your own kids. You are Ugly Parent Syndrome personified and you are more of a problem with youth sport today than any umpire will ever be.

To Outsider and anonymous, I was also at that game on friday night. You cannot have only 1 ref in any basketball game I was so disapointed that again there was only one ref. This is becoming a joke. There were so many things missed in that game it was a waste of time. As for the out come, its probably the worst Ive seen the norwood boys play and they were still able to get a draw.As for not entirely skilled, maybe in your club but the norwood boys would have to be some of the most skillful for their age. Perhaps thats why they were STATE CHAMPS! Woodville were running a zone, I think thats not allowed in under 12's and should have been picked up by the ref. A refs job is hard and only having one ref is no excuse for doing a poor job. A coach shouldn't have to count out loud 1,2,3,4,5 at the top of her lungs if a ref is doing his job! 3sec in the key was only called once for the entire game when it should be picked up more when you pitch a tent there. I am not going to waste any more time complaining about the ref for that game, the real problem was their was only 1.As for the kids swearing at the ref,you are kidding right! That has to be the biggest load of crap I have heard yet.What a lie! and for the coaches behaviour, I would also be very disapointed with only one ref three times in a row. I know the coach was probably more annoyed that her boys didnt perform well in a game that was poorly supervised. As for You Anonymous, you weren't at the game so you shouln't be so quick to make up your mind.looked like a zone to me.I can only assume you are involded with perhaps a loosing under 12 team, not sure. Because at the classics the boys only lost one game. They didnt get a chance to play the team who came first or second.They never underperformed, the team that came second has NEVER beaten them so I dont know what you are on about. They have never lost a game in the regular season and yes did I mention they were the state champs, who are still on the top of the ladder!! The coach is not living with a ref you tool.The pressure of recruiting a good team of players BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Sturt does have a good training method, they manage to train really good robots which wins a lot of games(not taking anything away from the sturt club they are always the team to beat and guide your perfomance against, just not in under 12's), but I would take a high level of ball skills and the ability to improvise in any situation any day. Perhaps thats why the boys keep beating them. I also love KARMA.As for the norwood approach if you are such an expert maybe you can explain to me exacly what that is? The way I see it it involves ball skills, fun and enjoyment, because that was my son has learnt since he has been there. I know this wasn't all on topic, but I cant believe that crap some of you have posted, especially when you obviously dont know what you are talking about

can some of you Anons use the name suggestion under the "Name" box?It says this:Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Mimas 67

Someone was riding the refs in an under 12 match? Wow, they've really missed the point about what junior sport is meant for. What a tosser.

Callisto 11 - by all means have fun. BUT when you dont get the basics right you look like a) you dont care or b) you dont have a clue.

You're not a player - you're supposed to be controlling the game. The best referees have fun and can have a laugh with players AFTER they have earnt the players' respect by getting it right most of the time. It's about priorities. How do you feel when you walk into a shop and the shop assistants are having a laugh amongst themselves while you're not being served?

So the RULE BOOK says SPECIFICALLY that the Assistant Coach can't approach the referee - fair enough. Doesn't the rule book also SPECIFICALLY state that the first grounded foot becomes the pivot foot and should that foot be lifted and re-grounded its a travel. So why not so pedantic with that RULE? Any contact on the shooter mut be called - unless you're a big when its open slather, particularly on the body. They're all rules, why choose to enforce that one so steadfastly.

By all means work as a team - make the same calls, apply the same standards, don't call a foul from halfway when the play happens under the basket and your 'team-mate' is standing next to the play (btw - I don't think that's teamwork, that's a cop-out but don't make the call on one play and then not on the next on the basis that its 'his' call).

We all want good refereeing. We're all on the same side.

Memo to referees who think they may be able to improve:

unless you've had the perfect quarter, don't high five your partner at 1/4-time, in all likelihood its gunna really annoy one of the coaches;

don't form a referees scrum and chant together - "i'm blind, I'm deaf, I wanna be a ref" - its happened, and it only confirms our suspicions;

if you stop the game to talk to one coach, call the other one over, that way you wont get blasted when the next call, rightly or wrongly, goes to the coach you just had a conversation with, it also makes a coach less likely to be personal in his/her attacks;

you dont have a quota of calls to make - telling somebody to tuck their singlet in for the 5th time isnt a substitute for calling a travel that led to a score;

at some stage let me know why the players all walk to the referees to shake their hands (because now they're scared if they dont they'll get smashed next time) but when an Assistant Coach asks for a clarification during a stoppage they can't be spoken to;

forget there's even such a thing as a referee's evaluator - they're two-faced. They'll tell us you did everything right and then tear strips off you;

occasionally ask a coach 'what did you see?' - it reminds us there are two sides but still gives us a chance to put our view forward.

And I'll promise to try and work better with referees of you'll promise to try and work better with me. Deal?

Where? On Hoops, or in a basketball stadium?

"I love how a thread about a letter saying referee abuse has to be stopped, ends in more referee abuse"

There had been no abuse in this thread until you made this comment. If you consider people making constructive comments or legitimate gripes to be abuse, then you are doing nothing to solve the problem of the divide between players/coaches and referees.

I can see a lot of coaches asking their team managers to get the courts supervisor, particularly at MARS.

Is this the letter you are referring to?

Referee Abuse