Hoops

Time to rid of winder

That was Winder on 5aa interview tonite.
Shot poorly Ervin was good.
Clarke's message after the game - we really move the ball around quickly in offense - it's defence we've gotta concentrate on.

He played in Syria - but Cornesy couldn't find much detail at all on that Country.

Performance pressure on imports here is pretty extreme. Results in a lot of decision changing / forced shots IMO. Let him settle in and we'll see.

I think people are still thinking of, and comparing to, stat lines we were used to for in 48min games too.

His stat line in 48mins, might have been closer to 13/8/9ish, near on a triple double.

shooting % aside, i would take a player who posts near a (48min) triple double in his worst game for the year, anyday.

should just couple more of his shots have dropped, like isaac said, then in 48, you might've been looking at 20/8/9. wow, then we'd be praising his performance.

i do agree, and that would happen in an ideal world, and there are a few of us that see it this way but there will always be who are straight to the negative. Personally i think he was just having an off game, his first two he was met with early foul trouble, and this time he got some decent minutes, and he probably felt the expectations on him. i think this game coming up against sydney we are going see a much more insync team. i dont think they want to get stuck in a negative rut and will do everything they can to get out.

well that seems to have shut them up Isaac.

You don't pull the pin on a Side Winder Isaac, you pull the trigger and it flys off and hopefully hits your opponent smack in the face! :-)

Hopefully, that'll be the Kings this week!

yeh 0 turnovers to me means he isnt trying hard enough. He needs to be cut

Let's not forget Mitch also has 0 turnovers.

What about 11 points per game? If that's not enuf then 9 of the 15 imports in the league should be very nervous about their employment status

lol @ x. I completely agree. Creek is useless cant even get any minutes. If we are like this coming from the wooden spoon then imagine the perth fans when they were 0 and 2 lol. Im surprised the team still exists after those two performances!

Groves - 24% from 3point line .
It doesn't necessarily follow I'd replace Winder.

Cortez Groves - slightly better = ave 10ppg @ 44%
Had 18/5/7 and the like.

The guy had an off night - it happens.

My only constructive criticism would be I'd like to see a bit more Darnell Mee in him, in that if the shot clearly isn't happening for him, pick up the defence and look to set everyone else up as much as possible.

Exactly what isaac said, I actually think if his shot was dropping he wouldn't have been forcing so many shots. I wouldnt have said his shot selection was too bad up until the last game.

He is our best dribble penetration player, and one of maybe 3 we have who can make there own shot. His defence was good up until the last game.

I honestly think he just had a garbage game, which was the case for most of the team, but at least he looked active and aggressive. If he is putting up the same performances in a months time then maybe we can look at dumping him but until then its going to cause as much harm as good to replace him this early.

Wow, I would hate to have some of you guys as a boss.



"3 days and you still haven't learnt the business??

Don't come Monday!"

Some of the posts in this thread are downright pitiful. Stop with the kneejerk reactions, its been 3 games for crying out loud!

oh to be a sixers import, not.

Brad Hill has been playing pretty well last couple of games and yet you still hate on him.

Definately not time to boot him yet. Damn you guys are quick on the button!

However, there are concerns on his shot selection, and switching on defense. I can think of 5 or 6 times in the second half where he got caught on a switch and ended up on the big man, or just lost in the keyway. Marty, show the boy some tape please..

Of the 40 jumpers after training, going around the 3point arc, - he got most of 'em in.

wow i wake up this morning to check hoops. The only thing thats a miss is a crucifix! Its a bit early to be sending winder home. Its his first game without early foul trouble and yeh its not his best game. Cant just sack players because of a disappointing loss. Yes it sucked yesterday i think marty has some work to do but no need to start demanding heads

X, Ervin is averaging 23.8 ppg. Sure he may turn it over a bit, but the Hawks have won 3 out of 4 games so he is doing all the right things to get the W.
Definently the leading MVP candidate at this stage.

Can he post up?
If so then he could be of use.
Sounds like his perimeter game is sus, but if he can get to the line some other way he could be useful.
Sixers have plenty of shooters so he should not be forcing them up.

Interesting posts.

Was pondering starting one questioning if Winder can actually hit a open jump shot? But no need to with this thread running hot.

First play of the night he posted low and scored it was a nice play and one that they should look to use more, I'm pressuming it was something they talked about in getting the ball to Winder early and get his 'offensive' confidence up.

My issue is can he hit a open jumper? If he can and does in training pre season etc then he is worth keeping. If he can't hit a jumper than he is not much better than Brad Hill (who actually shot the ball well y'day).

Ervin is a class act. Glad to have had the opportunity to watch him play. Great skills in so many areas, a very nice pick up for the Hawks and definately early leader for MVP

Great comment Snakepit. Right on the money. I don't think we should cut Winder yet and the only reason for that is that he has the athleticism to be very damaging close to the basket - either by posting up smaller PG's as you suggest, or by collapsing the D so we can get our main offensive weapons (Balls and DeVries) open on the perimeter.

If he doesn't show that he can play the drive and kick-out game successfully in the next few weeks, then I would say the Sixers should cut him. But I think he can make the adjustment. Lets hope he can turn it around soon.

Early in the game the 36ers ran an isolation play where they went four high and sent Winder to the rim resulting in an easy 2 over the much shorter Ervin. Pretty simple play and should work well as it would be difficult to get big man help because Balls or even Holmes will punish you from the elbows if their man digs. Never went to it again. Strange logic. That is where Winder has an advantage over some other PG's and I would be using it against Cooper next week as much as posible. A few on here are suggesting some sort of Al Green comparison and while that is at this stage way off the mark, the ability to take smaller less physical defenders to the low block was one of Al's trademerks that Winder could also gave success with. I think he will be OK but Marty needs to play a system that best uses his skillset.

Winder does have a huge playing similarity to Al green, and he could probably have much the same effect upon a game, provided he had a team that included a point guard/defensive wizard like Ray Wood and/or a SG with a Daryl Pearce like 3, but this team has neither.
So he struggles to guard a point who's quicker than he is and also have energy than defence - and when he beats his player , the other defensive players have already faded off the non-3-point-shooting assignments.
He actually needs the others to step up.

thats my view

Winder had some very good chances and could make them, whether they were jump shots or drives. Dumping him after just a couple of games is a bit tough I reckon. Give him another couple of games at least.