Hoops

Breakers Vs Sixers 20th jan NSEC

That expensive year we went 11 and 3 at home
and 3 and 11 away.
Pretty good team here, but no good on the road
as has been the case for many years
We don't know how to travel

If I can be bothered to take the time, I might go through and work out the +/- of all the Sixers players in each game.

For some reason I have a feeling that the overall leader in cumulative +/- is going to be Dowdell....

Isaac - I'm doing it the old fashioned way (writing down what time he subs in/out, game score at the time, lead margin, +/- for the time he was on & running total of his +/-)

I have now finished working out the +/- for Jacob Holmes in every game so far this season:

Game 1 vs Wildcats -6 (Won by 5)
Game 2 @ Taipans -2 (Lost by 11)
Game 3 vs Hawks +2 (Lost by 14)
Game 4 vs Kings +7 (Won by 12)
Game 5 vs Breakers 0 (Lost by 4)
Game 6 @ Taipans -4 (Lost by 16)
Game 7 @ Crocs -14 (Lost by 4)
Game 8 vs Crocs 0 (Won by 13)
Game 9 @ Hawks -4 (Lost by 2)
Game 10 vs Kings +11 (Won by 4)
Game 11 vs Crocs -10 (Lost by 2)
Game 12 vs Hawks +20 (Won by 15)
Game 13 @ Tigers -10 (Lost by 21)
Game 14 vs Breakers -11 (Lost by 5)
Game 15 vs Blaze +8 (Won by 7)
Game 16 @ Breakers +1 (Lost by 14)

Overall (unless I calculated wrong) so far this season Holmes has a total +/- of -11.

I noticed while I was doing this that before the injury, Rhys Carter was part of some runs that would have seen him finish games with around +10 or so (on court when we erased deficits/gained leads).

Isaac - I have been sitting here going through the play-by-play for each of the Sixers games so far this season (only managed to go through the first 6 games so far) and calculating the +/- rating of Holmes in each of these games.

So far I have:

Game 1 vs Wildcats -6
Game 2 @ Taipans -2
Game 3 vs Hawks +2
Game 4 vs Kings +7
Game 5 vs Breakers 0
Game 6 @ Taipans -4

You're certainly into the whole +/- bit at the moment.

Funny, Johnson has scoring power but lacks hustle on the boards; Holmes can't shoot for jack but can get any board he wants.

Gene-splicing will solve our problems!

You are right, Bretts, there will need to be some tough decisions taken to get a better balance to the team.

For example, I think both Carter and Bruce have potential, but I'm not sure either is good enough at creating shots for others. Hence I think we need a gun import PG, with one or the other of Carter and Bruce coming off the bench. Unfortunately in that scenario, I think we'd have to let one of the two go.

Also, if we take Herbert back next year, one out of Hill and Ng would have to go I think. Its really difficult, because outside of Balls, Ng is the only really good shooter on the team. But physically he struggles to matchup defensively and we rarely get full value from his shooting because he can't really create off the dribble and our team is bloody hopeless and getting him open off screens!

On the other hand, Hill has better physical tools and the capacity to do more on a basketball court than Ng, but he tends to try to do too much at times and doesn't finish at the rim as well as he should do IMO. Too many players are able to body him and nudge him just enough to put his shot off, which is really frustrating to watch.

If we got Schenscher or another top centre, then we'd want to keep Balls and Johnson, but one of Holmes or Dowdell would have to go. Holmes' defence, rebounding and experience is useful, but would he want to be the 2nd big off the bench?

Good point about us not exploiting their big men when they chase too far out as well Isaac. There isn't enough movement. When they come out and force Shannon or whoever to dribble east-west outside the 3 point line, someone needs to come out and give the ball-handler a quick passing option. When they receive the ball, they should be able to make a quick second pass into the key before the big man can recover (especially if its someone like Pledger). We just don't recognise this stuff fast enough and act on it very often though.

Isaac, yes the Hawks switch a lot and get away with it, but thats partly because they work as a unit to cover mismatches better and partly because they have good size at every position bar PG.

I remember expecting Howard to bust out against the Hawks because Campbell would have to guard him. But I was wrong, the Hawks played smart and there was always someone there to close the driving lane when Howard tried to beat Campbell off the dribble.

The Sixers, on the other hand, aren't experienced enough to cover for each other and too many of our guys can be easily exploited defensively due to lack of height, strength or quickness.

Jonno, good point about imports being 2/4. We were unlucky with DeVries injury, I reckon he would have been doing pretty well by now playing off Shannon rather than Winder. I think his shooting and passing game is preferable to Howard's slashing game as well.

With regard to getting more rebounding from the SF spot, I don't think it is pure rebounding that is the problem. I'm pretty sure it is our defence. Our players get dragged out of position too easily and we switch too much. As a result, they either can't put a body on their man or someone like Shannon ends up trying to box out an Abercrombie or Boucher or Vukona. With defensive organisation, I think you'll find our boxing out and rebounding will improve a lot.

Yea Garry Ervin would be awesome if we could get him!

Its a pity the Hodge situation turned out like it did as he would be a great fit for our team and next years team as our import guard, could start him at SG and have him spend time at the 1/2/3 spots supported well by Bruce, Carter, Hill, Creek, Herbert and Ng. If only we could find someone of similar ability who wants to play here.

I went for a 3 or athletic 3/4 as we need more rebounding which they could help and Hill could always play some minutes in the SG rotation in order to maintain Creeks minutes and development, but yea would love to see a top import PG like a Gary Ervin here as our import.

Isaac, I totally agree about us breaking down on defence due to our inability to negotiate screens.

We seem far too willing to switch, even when it is unnecessary, and our guys just have zero idea of how to show on the screen and cover the passing angle until they can recover to pick up their man. Balls is one that really struggles to do this against quicker opponents like Wilkinson (and that is why he killed us in Adelaide).

They need to watch the Celtics play. Garnett in particular is an absolute master of showing on the screen and then recovering to his man. To be fair, we'll never do it as well as them, as our guys have nowhere near the experience and don't spend anywhere near as much time working on basketball, but we could at least learn a fair bit about playing the angles!

Tornado, well said. It doesn't help the team if everyone is slamming the coach and players all the time. I really hope none of them read this forum!

I agree with you about going for someone like Schenscher instead of a second import. I think that could be a good option, although I would prefer a more mobile centre from a defensive standpoint (eg Khazzouh, but doubt he would come here so meh).

I don't think I'd go for a small forward import though. I think Hill is gradually getting better and will be a decent stop gap until Creek is ready to start. If you bring an import SF in, you are basically limiting Creek's minutes at his natural position.

I'd prefer to go with an import PG who can do it all. Shannon is not bad, but his defence is worrying me. In an ideal world we'd sign a Homicide, McKee or Ervin next season.

Bruce and Herbert are both decent shooters and could both improve on their previous season.

I like Tornado's suggested team and getting Schensch back would be great and i guess if that fails go for a import big. Always good to get a top SA player back for me the ideal would be (even though very unlikely) to grab someone like Newley back in the import 2/3 spot and go with a all Aussie line up, fans would also love Newley and Schenscher 2 top SA boys playing for the 36ers also.

Clarkes import selection has been concerning, but DeVries if healthy was ok and Shannon is ok so he is more like 2/4, Winder was also a good player, just played out of position and didnt fit the role Clarke wanted him to. Since we have had no luck selecting import 2/3s id like them to grab a propper SF or an athletic 3/4, and i think they will be a better fit for the team anyway.

Progress has been made on last season and i can see Bruce, Johnson, Creek, Hill and Dowdell all improving next year, if we get Schenscher (or a better import) in for Howard thats a upgrade, and if Herbert, Carter, Ng all stay injury free thats improvement to. So IMO we are making steps in the right direction, just need to retain some of our good young players, try and recruit a top line Aussie like a Schenscher or whatever top Aussies are available, and see if we can improve import selections (get Cal Bruton to help, he had some golden ones over the years) or get top line Aussies instead of imports we should be in the playoff mix next year.

Sixers started putting up better shots in the last quarter to make the score more respectable and when you have a lead like that it's pretty easy to take your foot off the gas a little. Last nights game was played at a pretty fast pace throughout by both teams.

DJ needs core and upper body strength IMO. I still say he can be a force in the league in time.

I agree with you KingJames, DJ should get the extra time (as he has been recently). As I said in another thread recently, the Sixers aren't making the playoffs this season, so we might as well get as many minutes into DJ and Creek as possible. They will make a lot of mistakes and we will lose games, but hopefully come next season they will be ready to break out.

BTW X, I don't think DJ is deliberately avoiding contact under the basket. I think he needs to get in the gym and build up his lower body strength. Like a lot of beanpoles in this league, he is too easily pushed out of position and bumped off balance by shorter, stronger guys who get up underneath him. That is why you see some of those off-balance, horrible looking fade-aways he threw up last night. (Not to mention getting pushed under rebounds by your Vukona and Boucher types).

Damn it. I was hoping I dreamed all this, but the wreck is still here this morning.

This road ineptitude creates such a weird feeling for me at home games. It's like they're lying to the crowd by winning or something. So the casual fan that doesn't follow them sees the Sixers scrape by a crap team and thinks we're awesome.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Don't get me wrong, I never want the Sixers to lose - it just seems so disingenuous when they carry on after a home win; I kind of applaud a bit thinking "Yeh... that's great. Whatever. This season is going nowhere and you'll fly off someplace else to utterly capitulate".

on a positive note, Breakers played well. Wilkinson is playing well at both ends and Pledger backed him up well. Penney looked strong going to the cup and when Dillon Boucher can bullsh%t his way to the rim for a layup you know your D needs looking at seriously. I would have called a timeout instantly and torn shreds off who ever was marking him lol

I am so glad I was at work and could only see the scores from the NBL website. When I clicked on the link, the same old comment was made, 'oh well another game with no substance'.

How can any team play that bad away and yet show something when at home? Do we need a psychiatrist for the team can I could sure use one considering this screws with my head!

All year we have witnessed 'melt-downs' and yet we had 2nd,3rd qtr ones.

I wont drop my membership but C'MON, enough is enough.
Performances like these are highly embarassing when you consider this is supposed to be a professional league and more so, its televised around Australia.

When they run out Sunday, I sure wont be clapping. My ego says, if you can only win at home and not away, your only half good and not Professional. Simple as that! Stop the rot 6ers!!!!

LOL Isaac, I won't blame Oscar if he'd rather play for Gordie. The Sixers have a long, hard road ahead before they will be ready to challenge the top teams. I just hope we don't turn into the Clippers or the Wizards, with a 20 year rebuilding process!

Fizzle, his name is Oscar Forman.

"Clarke has numerous plays and a player mentioned after our last loss at home that it's not that we don't have the plays it's that as players they don't know how to make the right decision when the defense takes them out of designed play."

Bizzy, that's interesting to hear and doesn't surprise me one bit. Sounds a bit like we need to get better at the basics. Set good screens and try to create off the pick and roll and pick and pop. Ballinger and Shannon should really be able to run that as a staple when we are under pressure. Especially when he's got some big slow oaf on him like Pledger or even Nevill (he's a GOOD, big slow oaf though). Even Holmes should be able to score a couple of baskets a game at the rim with a pick and hard cut down the lane!

Interesting numbers on the +/- for Hill, Isaac. I didn't see much of the second half as I had to go out. Think I might go watch the rest of the train wreck and see what I think.

We obviously pulled things back a bit, but the damage was all done in the 2nd quarter when they got on a roll and we didn't have the discipline and confidence to hold it together in the eye of the storm.

While I can understand people's frustrations with the Sixers continued lack of success, I tend to think most of the problems this team faces can only be solved with time and patience. Building a team's understanding of the game plan, developing their confidence in each other and their ability to work cohesively under pressure just takes time.

Marty has to teach these guys how to play winning NBL basketball. They're all either too young, haven't played a lot of minutes before, or have only played for terrible teams (unless Balls played on a good Hawks team?)

EC, I know. Sorry to state the bleeding obvious. The drought is pretty bad and I look forward to cracking the seal

Skud, I agree that Marty has often been getting either Hill or Creek to help pressure the ball downcourt. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Hill has been doing a pretty good job of it (a lot of his steals are coming from those situations).

The play I was talking about when Abercrombie scored, I'm not sure what was called, but the team clearly wasn't on the same page as to what they were doing. May have been partly Daly's fault too, because he should have been one of the guys pressing up the floor, not trying to decide whether to box Vukona out of the key or stop Abercrombie from creating a highlight reel!

EC i think we are building well on the 3 year plan, we have bought in potentially the 2 best U/24 players in the league, in Creek and Johnson. Johnson needs to add more rebounds and defense to be a star and if Creek adds a jump shot he will also be a star, both are quite acheivable for them IMO.

Hill is improving and will atleast be a solid back up for years to come.

Bruce and Carter is about as good a aussie pg combo you will get, assuming Bruce reaches his top form again, would need a import in there to really top that and i personally hope we keep them both and keep Shannon, the best import we have had over the past 2 years, Bruce and Carter can both run minutes at SG.

Given Clarke is coach i would expect a few more top young Aussies landing in Adelaide over the next couple of years, this would have been the biggest draw card in hiring Clarke, and has already delivered us Creek

Given Creek and Bruce were not in the NBL at the start of the season, they are 2 handy pick ups.

If we can keep Shannon and bring in a import either in the Wilkinson (a 4/5 to team with Ballinger) mould or Rossell Ellis mould (a athletic, strong versatile 4/3 who can pinch hit at the 5), while retaining the bullk of Ballinger, Creek, Johnson, Carter, Bruce, Hill, Dowdell bring Herbert back from injury, obviously upgrading on any of these if we can get a top line Aussie or a top young gun who is better, and i think we will be vastly improved on this year.

This would give us something like (without adding a top line Aussie, which i hope we do and think we probably need to if we are going to win the title)

C Wilkinson, or similar mould import/Johnson
PF Ballinger/Dowdell
SF Creek/Hill
SG Herbert/Bruce
PG Shannon/Carter

thats a fair bit better than what we started with IMO, being Winder, Devries, Hill, Holmes, Ballinger backed up by Carter, Ng, Herbert, Dowdell, Johnson,

DJ is a youngster and a future star IMO and i love his athleticism, i just wish he would dominate the paint more defensively and rebound more, he will be close to a future MVP if he can do that, how many 21 year old 7 footers in Australia can play as good as Johnson? none that ive seen in the NBL.

Excited to have him and look forward to him improving, i think the rest of this season we got to put plenty of minutes into guys like Bruce, Creek, Hill, Johnson, Carter thats our future core of good Aussie players with Johnson, Creek and Bruce as potential starters/stars on a good team.

DJ is just a youngster.

Could do with a few teaspoons of concrete Jonno?

Man if only we could trade Howard for Wilkinson, would be a totally different team, when Carter is back have him replace Howard IMO, he hasnt turned out may aswell develop the aussies.

Johnson needs to spend the off season rebounding and playing defense, his offense is mostly pretty good, if he could rebound he would be a force in this league.

+/- means nothing in tonights game. Hill was terrible......again. even in the last minute he skys for a one handed rebound and cocks it back like dwight howard, then vikona comes through and takes it from him. look at the good rebounders...two hands, elbows out

As a sixer supporter for life i know we have to take the bad times with a grain of salt - we've been spoilt in Adelaide, well not in the last 8 years but i've never been this close to climbing a clock tower. I kicked my cat on the way out to work this morning cause I knew NZ would punish us. Im not even gonna single out names


its just disgraceful....... our D sucks we look like amateurs no.... we look like bums

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Hang on a minute EVERYONE !

Getting a win against Breakers was never gunna happen, so why be surprised when we are down.

BUT, Fork me twice on a Sunday. When he wheels fall off, they really fall off!

If they have any set plays this year, they've done an awesome job of keeping them under wraps.

Back-to-back Hill car wreck turnovers. Pretty to watch. At least he got benched.

I'm running out of adjectives to describe the level of suck we've slumped to.

Back to back wooden spooners?

I'm going to give cheering for NZ a try so I remember that nice feeling.

Wait.

That blonde they focussed on before the 4th has gone some ways to restoring said feeling.

And then Dowdell misses a dunk.

UGH.

Skud, what would you call it when you make the specific point that Penney scored 9 points on Hill? I would say you were strongly insinuating that Hill is the guy to blame!

Skud, it is not just Hill's fault. Its not even mainly his fault. He was off the court for a good deal of the run that broke the game open.

As much as we all love Creek, he is not the defensive stalwart you are trying to claim. Remember the Abercrombie lob end of 1st quarter? That was Creek's guy. For some reason he decided to pressure the PG up the floor and left Daly trying to cover Abercrombie.

Its rookie errors like this that are costing us.
Remember that a lot of these guys aren't very experienced and it shows against well drilled VETERAN teams like the Breakers.

Did you hear Lemanis in a timeout in the 2nd? He said "their guards don't deal well with on ball screens". And he's right. They get lanes to the basket all night long with good screens and then when we collapse, it opens up their platoon of 3 point shooters.

Then we look even worse, because everyone is out of position and we can't block out and corral the rebound.

The other problem that started the run was that we started the second with Johnson on the court. He can't stay in front of Wilkinson who is too fast for him. So defensively we were getting burned where in the first quarter, Balls and Holmes had things under control.

It would have been fine for DJ to stay on, however, if our guards had some patience and worked out how to get the ball to him (and Balls) in the post. The Breakers can't guard them if we get them the ball in the right spot! Unfortunately, our guys just don't play smart and don't know how to set Balls and DJ up.

Massive growing pains. I hope I look back in a year and can say it was all worth it!

Glad things are picking up in the third.

I mean picking up ... where they left off...

Agree, refs aren't helping Sixers cause at all. Sixers aren't exactly doing themselves any favours either. When Jacob Holmes is one of your best offensive weapons, you know you are in trouble. Sixers transition D is almost non exsistant. Pledger is having a ball out there, nice Abercrombie Alley Oop play and everyone is on scoreboard pretty much.

Someone call Chevy Chase, I've spilt Chernobly in the Hot tube and I'm back in 2009 again.

Luckily live stats have dies so as to spare me the pain of further score updates.

holy shit i just realised we havent even hit the trademark 3qtr slump. this will be a 40+ point win for NZ

i just stopped recording the game

haha i like your style Billo. watching games like this makes me wonder if the sixers want a fan base next season

LOL this has got to be the worst display by any sixers team i have seen in my life. where is the defence? they are pushed up so far they come flying in the back door.

Blowout much?

I'll be the guy to pick the Sixers by 2 for no valid reason apart from bragging rights if they pull off a miracle.

Fizzle, i tend to agree on the 1 Vet and Legit Center call. DJ is good but not quite there yet and Balls is a PF not a C as stated in every Sixers thread this Season

breakers by 12. just dont see it happening, and the days of hoping for an upset win have faded massively.