Hoops

Clarke planning ahead for 2011/12 season

Oh yea, as i said highly unlikely re someone like Newley or Ingles, same goes for guys like Baynes and Ogilvy, i doubt we will be seeing any of the young boomers like them in Aus any time soon, but id atleast make the quick call, as you never know if you dont ask.

Assuming we dont get aither of them go for guys like Weigh and Harvey or a import along with targeting Magden and retaining Creek and one of Herbert, Hill, Ng in the sg/sf rotation

Anon 308101, As already stated, the Sixers were finals contenders when Schensher was around last. We only dipped out on the making the finals that year because Cairns won their last game of the season, as did we. Cairns had to lose for us to get in.

As for the Newley/Ingles call; you're practically dumping two Small Forwards already in Hill and Creek putting them there. You'd be better off having either person fill the 2-spot and keep either Hill or Creek.

A quality big is all that is really needed here. If the "right" kind of respect is required to bring someone like Luke back to Adelaide, just present the following dot points:

* Last attempt at the finals was while he was playing.
* Immediately leaves Adelaide and joins a Championship side.
* Leaves Perth and joins another Finals contender team.
* Adelaide have worst season in History following departure.
* Best player on Adelaide squad is now reduced to being the target of "liability" posts on this forum.

AKA; the club has turned to sh*te since he left.

And while Lukes departure from the club didn't necessarily trigger any of those events; it's still worth pointing them out anyway.

The same two names seem to be popping up but are there not other Australian centres not currently playing in the NBL that could be lured back next year if offered the right incentive.

I think I'm correct in saying that neither Khazzouh or Schenscher wore Boomer singlets in the past two years and Schenscher gets pushed about to easily against strong inside players. We saw it happen in his last stint as a sixer and it was frustrating to watch physical players have their way with him.

There are guys like Nevill, Maric, Jawal, Baynes, Ogilvy running around Europe that could provide just as valuable to the team at a similar cost. Clarke has links with them all and they could all be valuable in their own way.

One of the biggest frustrations I have had with the sixer squads over the past 4-5 years is the lack of a physical intimidator in the post who isn't afraid to be physical. We have Dowdell partly playing that role, give him a bigger more imposing running mate.

I think we could spend 300k on Newley/Ingles or the best player we can get, obviously spend less for a lower quality player, unless there is a max salary rule, and still be able to fit under the cap

Something like

C Schenscher (125k)
PF Ballinger (150k)
SF Newley (300k)
SG Magden (90k)
PG Bruce (70k)

Takes up 735k

leaving 265k for the bench, if you have 2 min salary guys (30k each) you have 3 spots for 205k which is 68k each, should be able to sign 3 decent back ups out of Say Johnson and Creek are 2 of them and are combined on about 136 k, it just leaves one of Holmes, Herbert, Hill, Carter, Daly, Ng, Dowdell, Harris for 68k (or less) as they wont exactly be in high demand else where and possibly even get 3 of them as 2 may take min salary.

Maybe my guesstimates of starter salaries are low, but given the 1,000,000 cap thats sort of how i would budget for each position/player

exactly a Bruce, Ballinger, Schenscher combo with 2 good players at sg and sf ala imports or a rotation of aussies like Magden, Weigh if we can get him, Herbert and Creek, and we will be ok imo.

I agree first priority is to get Schenscher,

my 2nd point of call would be to some one like Newley or Ingles and see of $250-300k is enough to get one of them home, atleast call and see if they are sick of Europe, highly unlikely but make the call.

next is Magden offer him 60-80% of a import wage, if we miss out on a Newley or Ingles type, and still offer him what we can afford and a starting spot if we do get lucky with Newley/Ingles which is highly likely, lets get the best SA boy outside the 36ers in a 36ers uniform.

re-sign Bruce, (make sure its not too expenseve 50-80k, assuming 1,000,000 cap)get the trio of Bruce, Schenscher and Ballinger going again.

If successfull that gives us a good starting point of

C Schenscher
PF Ballinger
SF Newley/Ingles (dreaming i know) or Import or someone like Weigh or Harvey (offer import wages)
SG Magden
PG Bruce

That gives us 3 boomer level talents in Schensch/Balls/Newley or Weigh (similar level Aussie) or import

And 2 good young players with Bruce also having been a Boomer and played at a WC's but i wouldnt call him a legit boomer atm as he needs to have another season as good if not better than his rookie year, and build from their.

Then obviously Creek and Johnson are signed, so we would have 3 spots left, sign 3 out of Daly, Hill, Holmes, Carter, Herbert, Ng and Dowdell, depending on who fits bets in rotations, salary and points.

But make sure we have our starting 5 set first before any of these are signed as we MUST get our starting 5 set before we offer any of those guys contracts and they just get the left over money/points.

Isaac, I think Luke is the man to go for. More because of the fact that Khazzouh won't be leaving Sydney any time soon; not with the clubs "reviving the brand" focus. He's already got Marquee written on him, so he won't go anywhere.

As I've said in posts before; Big Luke and Balls was an awesome combination down low; they had a great PG in Bruce at the time. The let down in their play came near the end when Hodge came in and they weren't the targets anymore.

2nd time round you'll have Creek/Hill whom are 3rd options if any. You could run a Daly/Carter backcourt or Bruce/Carter backcourt and still have a mean team.

My preference would be to have Ng start for a change (he picked up a bit this year) but either way, the 2012 potential team versus the 2008 lineup has a few improvements.

Clarke is almost right with the 'two boomers, two good imports' theory (also known as the 'six tall blacks, two good imports' theory).

Looking back over the years, I think it is more of an 'at least three stars, complimentary role players' rule. I think it works for most teams in recent history:

2010 Perth: Redhage, Lisch, D Martin, Cattalini

2009 South: Worthington, Ingles, Donta Smith

2006 & 8 Melbourne: Anstey, D Mac, Thomas

2007 Brisbane: the most stacked team of all time? - Sammy Mac, Ebi Ere, CJ Bruton, Gibson, Rychart

2003-5 Sydney: variously Nielsen, CJ Bruton, Heal, Chris Williams, Jason Smith, Ebi Ere, Kavossey Franklin, Rolan Roberts and several hundred Boomers squad members (Barlow, Kendall etc)

2002 Adelaide: Maher, Farley, ?? - Exception to the rule?

2001 Wollongong: Saville, Charles Thomas, Melvin Thomas

2000 Perth: Rogers, Vlahov, Grace, Fisher, Timmons

98-89/99 Adelaide: Mee, Maher, Brooks

Anyway, the Sixers can really only boast one boomers-level or 'star' player in Ballinger, and otherwise have a team of role players. That just does not cut it. Ballinger's weaknesses are exploited as he does not have other stars to draw the pressure off him or pick up the slack on an off night.

Remember even Khazzouh, the runaway MVP favourite, is on a team with a losing record because he lacks any support at the other positions.

It's late but I can't sleep so I'll join in the fantasy sixer teams game.

C - Baynes(24)/Johnson(22)
PF - Ballinger(31)/Dowdell(22)
SF - Import/Creek(19)
SG - Madgen(25)/Herbert(26)/Ng(28)
PG - Bruce(26)/Carter(26)/Daly(19)

I know I said in an earlier post that you don't need two centres however I see Baynes & Johnson switching between centre and power forward. Baynes will certainly bring muscle but with Ballinger and Dowdell (who can drag defenders out to the 3 point line) the likelihood of Baynes fouling out is less likely.

The import (a Patrick Sanders type with better basketball I.Q) would need to be a scorer and Madgen has shown he can score as the third man on offense. Put Bruce on a year contract as Daly might leap-frog both Bruce and Carter in 12 months given the opportunity.

Defensively Carter, Herbert and Creek, and to a lesser degree Baynes and the import provide defensive intensity.

Question marks would be salary cap (especially with Baynes). On the court I'm imagining the team has more offensive potential as well as youth on its side which could form a nice little balance over say 2-3 seasons together. In terms of defense I'd hope Carter, Creek and Herbert could stifle supply to opposition bigs while Baynes, Ballinger and Dowdell out-muscle their direct opponents. Speed amongst the bigs might be a weakness against athletic front lines.

Comments welcome

Clarke goes. End.

I like the model on spurs idea, especially if we get the right imports.

Another thought of mine from the start of the season, why didnt we mesh the fleet from HSH guys with the returning 36ers guys, as the fleet had good chemistry and seemed to use Schenscher well and looked pretty good to me, even though HSH wasnt as good as NBL, it would have given us a team like

C Schenscher/Forman (Ballinger play C for the 10 mins Schensch is actually off, Forman play mins at PF)
PF Ballinger/Holmes
SF Herbert (replaced by Creek)/Hill
SG Farley (would have atleast been as good as Howard IMO)/Ng (replaced by Bruce)
PG Troy Jackson (did ok in HSH seemed to be a solid defender and distributor)/Carter/Daly (11th man)

The more i think about it, i think Ninnis's first team was on the right track being

C Schenscher/Cooper
PF Ballinger/Holmes
SF Grizzard (Hodge/Tyndale)/Hill
SG Maher/Winitana
PG Bruce/Davidson/Kersten

Obviously in the ideal world we would have retained the core of that squad, with Ballinger naturalised, and replaced Maher with a import, and get a good import in Grizzards spot, as when Hodge was in and playing well and Maher was healthy that team was looking very dangerous, and was the last 36es team to make the playoffs.

So ideally i think they would have loved to have something along the lines of

C Schenscher/Cooper
PF Ballinger/Holmes
SF IMPORT/Hill
SG IMPORT/Herbert or Ng
PG Bruce/Davidson or a young pg or run Ng/import sg here

I think a good option would be to build something similar to that next season, obviously Davidson and Cooper have retired, but i would be using that as a model and aiming for something along the lines of, given i think Ballinger, Johnson and Creek are all signed for next season

C Schenscher (125k)/Johnson (80k)
PF Ballinger (150k)/Holmes (50k)
SF import (Tremmell Darden to use a modernish name) or Magden (100k)/Creek (55k)
SG Newley or stud import (Ebi Ere to use a name)(250k)/Herbert or Carter(50k)
PG Bruce(60k)/Daly or Carter(50k)

given my guestimates of salary something along those lines should be acheivable under the cap. Obviously we sign our starters first and bench second and if w dont have say enough to keep Holmes or Herbert/Carter we would have to replace with someone cheaper.

Yes we are possibly overpaying Magden in my guestimates, but unfortunatly i think we will need to if we want him back and getting someone like Darden for 100k might also be a stretch, as from the euro posts he seems to be doing quite well in Europe, but at the end of the day we only need one of these guys, as i have listed them both options in the small fwd spot or we could get both and have one Magden SG and Darden at SF instead of the Newley /stud import spot.

I think the team above would be sort of best case scenario, i think at minimum (aslong as our current players are happy and wanting to return) we should atleast be able to acheive

C Import/Johnson
PF Ballinger/Holmes
SF Creek/Herbert or Hill
SG Import/Carter
PG Bruce/Daly

Which if Creek improves and having him for a full season, our import C can rebound and defend inside, Herbert comes back as good if not better than before, Bruce stays dedicated and has a year atleast as good as his rookie season and plays the full season and our import sg is an improvement on Howard, all of which are acheivable IMO we should improve next season.

Im personally hoping that our roster ends up being in between this one and the more ideal one i listed above.

Jonno, I like your first lineup. I've had enough of second rate imports. Give me Schenscher instead of an import any day. In a perfect world I'd prefer someone more athletic like Majok or Khazzouh, but Big Red is a local and would provide the solid presence in the middle we need. The only risk going with Schenscher is that he could easily nick off to Europe. I'd like to think that if we offered him an import's wage though he'd be happy enough to settle down here.

BTW its Madgen, not Magden, but I've been pretty impressed with him all season. Would love to see him come home, but I suspect Sydney knows what they have now and it might be hard to get him here without overpaying!

The toughest call with that first lineup is which two PGs you go with. I like both Bruce and Carter, but I really think that Daly could become a very good PG in a couple of years. It would depend a bit on how committed Bruce is to an NBL career in Adelaide. Up to now, he hasn't shown much long-term commitment to either basketball or the Sixers. I think he is more of a true PG than Carter though, who is nevertheless a nice all-around guard. I think in the end I'd keep one or the other and go with Daly as the understudy.

Anon has definitely raised a sticky question with this lineup though, because there is only room for one of Ng and Hill there. I'll be waiting with interest to see what team Marty is able to put together next year. In the meantime, I'm just going to enjoy watching what the young guys can bring for the remainder of the season.

I don't necessarily believe you need two centres, especially not in the NBL. One starting centre who is aggresive on the defensive boards, set strong picks, and push opposition big men off the block are diamonds. Neither Schenscher or Johnson provide these skill sets.

Baller#3 i do mostly agree, to throw a couple of names out there as style of players we need as imports would say Dave Thomas be the SF and Farley mould at SG? or more Devries mould? The main difference i had was due to bad luck in import selection (league wide) using Aussies or spending big on 1 player and i had Herbert for Ng, because i think Herbert is a more complete player.

would you go for a team like?

Schenscher/Johnson
Ballinger/Holmes
Dave Thomas mould import/Creek
Farley mould import/Ng
Carter/Bruce

If we get the imports right that could be a good team IMO.

Yea we definatly need a new starting centre (some interior defence and rebounding) and a good 3 pt shooter,

i dont think we will get a much better aussie pg line up than Bruce, Carter, Daly, as i doubt we will be able to get Martin or Gibson, possibly Markovich would be worth a crack but is he that much better than a Bruce?

Given the lack of top quality imports not only in the 36ers but in the league, would we be better giving 1 import salary to Schenscher and say 50-65% of an import salary to Magden, and sign 2 good Aussies and either a cheap import or top up another salary and get a better Aussie player instead of a Dowdell, Holmes or Hill. I think Magden would be better than Howard and Schenscher though totally different to Shannon, Schensch is atleast as good as him if not better and 2 SA boys coming home is always good.

Would a line up of

C Schenscher/Johnson
PF Ballinger/Holmes
SF Creek/Cheap import or Hill
SG Magden/Herbert
PG Bruce/Carter

be better than our current line up? IMO it would be, but whether its enough of an improvement to make the playoffs im not sure.

Another option would be to sign say Schenscher for say Holmes and Carter and/or Hill/cheap import wage and combine both import wages and have a crack at say Newley, would say 300k be enough to bring him home? or a proven import like a Ebi Ere, no idea if its enough but would give it a crack and go for a team like

C Schenscher (125k)/Johnson (80k)
PF Ballinger (150k)/Dowdell or Holmes (30k/min salary, around 50k for Holmes)
SF Magden(85k)/Creek (50k)
SG Newley or best import we can get (300k) /Herbert (50k)
PG Bruce (55k)/Daly and/or Carter (30k/min salary) (keep both and run an 11 man squad if possible)

if those figures are reasonable budgets that gives us enough room in the cap to sign those guys, as obviously i have no idea what players are on it was just my guess to see if a line up like that would be remotely possible.

Obviously if we can get a better aussie and have the cap room slide them in and push out the player required, but i dont know how many top level aussies are available or would be likely to leave their nbl team, as i said i doubt guys like Gibson or Martin would leave, Wortho has re-signed maybe we could have a crack at guys like Wagstaff and Weigh if they are available, but id also imagine they would be tough to get out of Perth.