Hoops

Ballinger to Kings : Wagstaff

Only 3 players are signed for next year.

Ballinger, Johnson and Creek.

"other teams are having success without him now."

This is what I think to myself every time someone says that "we can't get rid of Ballinger!!!1!eleven"

I think priority should definitely be looking at who we can bring in, Schensch, Newley, Gibson, whoever...then look at retaining current players to fill the gaps.

if the line up above coudlnt fit 2 imports salary wise, run with a SF line up of Herbert/Hill, leaving Carter, Bruce and Ng to battle for the back up sg spot.

I dont mid it being small if say Schenscher (if we get him) and Ballinger (or import PF) play say 30 mins each, id be happy to have Johnson play 20 mins as back up pf/c.

This leaves Creek to battle Herbert and Hill(or Ng or Bruce) for minutes in the (backup) sg/sf rotation, which would keep training competitive and simply who ever is producing best plays the most of the minutes.

I agree with not using Creek at PF as he is too small, but yea would use Johnson as back up PF and the import 3/4 (from my 2nd line up) there and ocassioanly Creek or Hill if we want a fast small ball line up. If Johnson struggles at PF we would need to play Ballinger (or IMPORT) 35 mins and go small for 5 mins a game with Creek or Hill at PF, not ideal but i think would be ok.

Salary cap may be a stretch but if we only have one import in either line up, its no more stacked than other current top 4 teams IMO, so could be acheivable especially if we sign our bench on min or near min contracts.

Points cap i think it probably is around 4 or 5 over on 2nd thoughts (having a quick guess at their values) so we could put in Daly as our back up pg and retain 1 of Carter, Ng, Hill or Bruce as the other back up guard and that would probably fit or be close to fitting on the points cap.

Having Daly as our 10th man would be good as it means we could probably reduce our rotation to 8 or 9 without too many hassles as being in the 10 would be a step up for Daly so wouldnt think he would complain playing low minutes, and tell him he has to out train the others and earn his minutes, which is good for the team and his development and hey if he does develop into the next brett maher or top sa player atleast he is on our squad for once, i think most fans are sick of losing the good young SA players to other teams.

So id revise my line up as, with guessed points values

C Schenscher (10) (if we miss him get Mottram or Vanderjagt (7))/Jonhson (7)
PF IMPORT pf/sf or Ballinger (10)/Creek (1)
SF IMPORT sf/pf (10)/Herbert (5)
SG Newley (9)/Carter (or Bruce or Ng or Hill) (6)
PG Gibson (9)/Daly (1)

=68 points if my maths and points guestimates are correct

Id play the starters 30 mins each, with Johnson playing 20 mins as back up PF/C, Herbert and Creek playing 10 mins as back up SF/SG, Carter (or Bruce) 10 mins back up PG, with Daly playing occasionaly and if he manages to jump ahead of say Carter and take the back up PG mins, Carter would then play minimally or play some mins in back up sg.

To me thats a fairly solid 9 man rotation and has most things covered as far as 3pt shooting (herbert, Gibson, Newley), defense (Gibson,Carter, Herbert, Creek), Penetration (Newely, Gibson, Creek), Rebounding (Schenscher, IMPORT 4/3 or Balls should hold their own between them)

Can't see why a returning Newley would be anything less than a 10 too.

Jonno, great lineup but pipe-dreams as far as affordability.

Newley/Luke/Balls would break the cap easily. Gibbo would be worth a mint also.

Points wise you'd have (approx):

Luke - 10
Balls - 10
Newley - 9
Gibbo - 9

I'd love that lineup but don't like the chances.

I agree with going after Newley and Gibson, both also have a history with Clarke at the AIS, so hopefully that helps us in recruiting them.

I also remember Clarke mentioning wanting an Aussie PG and 2 boomers in the program with 2 imports to be successful, so Newley and Gibbson would fill that, if thats what he was hinting at.

Would he be aiming for something like, assuming the Ballinger to kings is accurate

Schenscher or IMPORT (4/5)/Johnson
IMPORT (athletic versatile 4/3)/Creek
Herbert/Hill
Newley/Ng or Bruce
Gibson/Carter

If we can keep Ballinger and still land Schenscher, Gibson and Newley go with something like

Schenscher/Johnson
Ballinger/Creek
IMPORT (3/4)/Herbert
Newley/Hill or Ng or Bruce or Daly if tight on points
Gibson/Carter

Isaac, and that is why I wouldn't want to be a coach!

I think you also need to throw an import SG/SF into that mix as well, to further complicate things.

Isaac, who would you get to run the point? Would you start both or have carter backup Gibson?

Considering how Gibbo has been offensively this year, you could have Gibbo as a combo-guard at the 2-spot and have him rack up that 15ppg you'd want while being a reliable passer. Stick Carter at the point.

I agree with snakepi. Forman is still a limited player, but when surrounded with good talent and placed in the right system it allows him to focus on doing what he is best at - nailing relatively open jumpshots.

Personally I think the Ballinger haters are nuts. No, the guy is not Kobe so he can't still get it done efficiently with half a team's defence hanging off him, but with just a little quality help the guy has proven to be deadly, and he has never relied on athleticism to do it so another year in age isn't going to impact him as badly as it would others.

Would have to be a mutual thing , otherwise it couldn't happen.
Clarke - a teaching coach of juniors.
Ballinger - a top tier american import with a college degree, now naturalised.
Frustration on re-teaching. Aesthetic disagreements.

Ballinger + Khazzouh + Madgen + a couple of half decent imports combined with a few decent role players = contender.

6ers without Ballinger = spoon.

Anon. Please explain how Forman is killing Balls at PF. As good as Oscars been, Forman's team is killing Balls team because of
1) Gordie V Clarke (a matchup thats the equivalent of Garry Ervin V Zac Delany at training)
2) The Hawks have Irvin , Sav and Davidson to take the heat of Oscar the 6ers have ?????? not much really to take the focus off Balls.
Put Balls in the existing Hawks squad next season and you would almost have the pre season favourites.

Balls wants out - hates coach!

Coach wants scapegoat - blame Balls!

If i had to decide between coach & player right now i'd choose player!

The Brad, part of that assumption of players not scoring 20+ is because they're not given a chance to.

Great post anyhow man.

Fred summed it up perfectly IMO.

Jake, if the AIS men's team is your idea, then you're a douchebag.

BobbyTables brings up the point. Cut him, then split the funding to warrant 2 high calibre replacements. That's enough money to offer a decent paycheck to more local talent, but have enough left over to increase the amount of spending that you would offer to imports.

Ballinger gets left alone because he's the marquee guy and the scorer. The guys who score the points don't get heat; only the cast around them. Take away the primary scorer and see who steps up to bat. You could see a few guys getting 20+ppg.

"If we recruit two stud imports, a legit Centre"

We recruited 4 imports this season, how did that work out?

It's all so easy on paper, but the reality is much, much different.

At the next home game, watch Ballinger's game when he's not shooting open looks. Having someone at the 4 who can't defend their matchup or rebound/box out aggressively is really a problem for us.

Lets not forget last season's rumours of him going to Melbourne. Until the fat lady sings, it's all rumour

I would prefer he stays, but if he goes it's going to be an interesting offseason. Surely they will have a complete clean out. I can't see Holmes getting another year unless he signs for next to nothing.

Hopefully they put some money forward to guys like Luke Schenscer & Adam Gibson (I'm fairly sure both are yet to be resigned). That would be a reasonable start. Go with 1 import and throw bigger money at the higher end Aussie guys.

Well... we've all been blaming the rest of the team for the lapse in performance and haven't even looked at the apparent "Marquee Player" we have.

If he's going to the Kings, then Balls must have the feeling he's either in the targeting reticle or he's getting more cash there.

How long do u all wanna rebuild for?

'Balls knows he hasn't got a lot of seasons left and I'm sure he wants to be part of a winning team again before he is past it. Not sure that he is an ideal fit for the type of team I think Marty wants either.'

Leaving Adel to Sydney makes him part of a winning team?

I hope Marty has something up his sleeve cause this just gets worse!!

I thought Isaac said awhile back that Balls is contracted for next season along with Dowdell and DJ?

Interesting if Wagstaff really said that though! I could see the Sixers and Balls mutually deciding to go their separate ways after the last two seasons.

Balls knows he hasn't got a lot of seasons left and I'm sure he wants to be part of a winning team again before he is past it. Not sure that he is an ideal fit for the type of team I think Marty wants either.

I guess all will be revealed in due course.

Sorry if it came across like I was asking you about Wagstaff's plans Rooboy. I was just throwing it out there for dicussion. Making a claim like that while the guy is still under contract is pretty bold. Wonder what the background to it is?

If true, id have mixed reactions, as Ballinger is our best player and a guy i would like to keep, but losing him would force us to change direction and free up some cap space for recruiting so could end up being a good chance for the 36ers to totally rebuild, which is sort of needed.

Ballinger is contracted to the 36ers until the end of the 2011-12 NBL season. How would that fit into Jess Wagstaff's claim?