Hoops

36ers Big men

I just have one question. Why is everyone seemingly so insistent on getting Luke Schenscher back to the 36ers and consigning DJ to playing back up again? Over the last 3 games of the season he (DJ) proved what most people already knew that not only is he ready to be the teams starting centre but he also showed what he is capable of when he is the focal point of the offense.

Johnson has already spent 2 seasons as understudy to Chris Anstey (a better role model for his style of play he couldn't have asked for IMO) and a season here in Adelaide playing second fiddle to an out of position power forward. Why does he need to spend another 1 or 2 seasons warming the bench and only getting court time to give Heinz Big Red a breather? The guys numbers in the past 3 games have shown that he could be one of the more dominant centres that the NBL has.

Maybe, just maybe, its time for the 36ers to have DJ as their go to big man in the paint and let Ballinger float around taking mid to long range shots that he seems to excel at. IE, making DJ the focal point with Balls as the 2nd rather than the first option. As for the defensive end, Johnson knows that he needs to bulk up a bit and add to his strength but having a 7 foot presence blocking the lane is harder to get over the top of than someone 6'9" and playing out of position.

As for the rest of the current 36ers not on contract? I'd probably keep Holmes, Creek, Ng and if we can't get a decent big man to back up DJ then Jeff Dowdell might be worth keeping. In the past 3 games he has also shown what he can produce if he's given license to.

Oh well, that's my rant for the time being.

Those that think Aaaron Bruce played a lotta Basketball in his 18months in the USA , - ya know you could be wrong..
Getting married, working in the new families business
amongst other things, other than basketball.

Paul, I would say that the starting point guards on the '09 and '10 championship teams (Gibson and D Martin) are clearly a cut above the rest you named. I seem to recall that the quality of the backcourt was an important factor in the result in both series too.

Gibson and Martin may not be 'stars' as you say, but they are the two best aussie born PGs going around in the NBL, and are both current Boomers. If not stars, I would say that puts them pretty close. I think that they are now both well ahead of CJ Bruton for example.

As for the '10 runners up, until late in the season they had a pretty handy PG in Tywain McKee. Wollongong did amazingly well to still get to the grand finals, but the Luke and Rhys Martin were never their intended PG combination.

As Isaac i think mentioned before, id be very interested to know Bruce's state of mind. is he truly passionate about playing the game or is he just going to get over it? that is something the management definitely need to put to him before considering him for a season.

Anon,

Carter was 22-25 from the line, Bruce 15-19.

That equates to 1.7 free throw attempts (1.5 makes) per 40 for Carter, 2.8 attempts (2.3 makes) per 40 by Bruce.

Not exactly a difference that is going to win you too many games, particularly if Bruce is putting more people to the line with his additional fouls at the other end of the court.

its more than that though anon. i personally just see more stability with carter. Bruce is either on or off and when he is off he is way off. as people have said they are pretty close in comparison but my gut says Carter for sure.

SRT, I agree that DJ needs to get stronger and tougher in the paint. The jury is out there. Did you see them interview him after the NZ game though? He came across well and specifically talked about how he wants to work hard on his strength and to improve his game in the off-season. So he knows what he has to do, its just a matter of putting in the time I think.

On learning from Schenscher, I reckon DJ would be better served learning from Mark Davis. Luke's game is very different to DJ's. He's all about sealing you near the basket, pivoting and using his dominant size. DJ's game is all about quickness and mobility.

Not only could he learn more about positioning and rebounding from Davis than he ever would from Luke, I think Davis's offensive game fits DJ more too.

Watching the Golden Era recently reminded me of the way Davis played when he was younger and more mobile. Did you see all those quick steps around defenders and laying the ball in off the glass? Quite similar to the way DJ seems to want to play. What I would love to see is DJ learning Davis's art of anticipating when his shot is not going in and being the first up to tip the ball in. Imagine if DJ showed Davis hustle around the basket? He'd be a force to be reckoned with!

you need to remember Anon as Beantown mentioned i doubt 18 months of not playing was him sitting on the couch having nothing to do with bball, he kept himself fit would have kept practising etc. even with a preseason he may improve to fit in the team a bit but not as much as some people think. from all the games this season i know i felt more comfortable when i was watching carter with the ball than bruce.

you say bruce coughed it up because no one made themselves available. thats a fair point. look at the blaze game, no one got free for carter to pass to so he took it into his own hands. and if your thinking yes its luck though, lets wind the clock back to earlier in the season against townsville at home. again milliseconds left and carter hits the 3 to send the game to OT, another pressure situation where carter proved he is worth his weight in gold.

i think if we let carter go he would get picked up elsewhere straight away and it will massively bite us in the arse. personally id rather keep both, as it has been mentioned bruce is younger and still has some more to learn. it will be interesting what comes about in the offseason.

Bruce/ Carter is a tough call, because they both have some ability, but neither has been consistently effective this season. In Bruce's case, we have to try to factor in his absence from the pro game for a couple of years and the fact that he had no preseason. In Carter's case, he was injured mid-season and I don't think he ever really got back to his early season form.

The stats don't really make a decisive argument one way or the other, so let me go on what I have observed:
- Carter is the more athletic and this allows him to finish at the rim far better than Bruce.
- Bruce is a little quicker and more nimble, which allows him to get through seams in the opponents D. His problem is that he just isn't a serious threat to score at the rim, so opponents can play him for the pass. If he were to get better at pulling up for quick mid-range jumpers and floaters, this might compensate, but he hasn't really shown that kind of touch yet.
- I worry about Bruce's commitment to the game. I was higher on him a couple of years ago when he first played for the Sixers and then he seemed to walk away from pro ball. Is he really committed this time around? The coaches need to be sure he has the desire.
- I think Carter's athleticism will allow him to play some backup SG a bit too and that versatility is very useful.

So whilst I couldn't say for sure which player will have the better NBL career, I tend to lean towards Carter as a safer bet. Ideally, we get Gibson or a good import PG in the Ervin mould and Carter plays backup PG and perhaps some backup SG as well.

I have to admit Beantown, that was the argument i had in my head, is that DJ did come here for a starters role, and what would that be telling him if schenscher is signed? he will be a bit pissed i think, and i do agree they may not get along as well as i would like them to in my head. i guess what i want out of DJ is his inside game to improve by learning from someone like Schenscher. i completely agree we have seen some good work come out of DJ but he isnt dominating enough and needs to work on using his body more to get rebounds and force his way in.

SRT, development of DJ was one issue, but I probably should also have said 'chemistry issues' because I do think DJ came here to start and I'm not sure he and Schenscher would coexist happily for very long.

I also think DJ can be the more dominant NBL player in the long run because of his mobility compared to Big Red, so it doesn't make much sense from my point of view to pay a premium to bring back a guy who will start for two years and then be superceded by a guy we already have on the roster.

Assuming we have money to spend, I think we would be better off sinking that money into better talent at the PG/ SG/ SF positions.

Obviously there is a risk that DJ doesn't develop fast enough and we get pasted by opposing bigs again next season, but I think he has shown enough that we will be ok.

He also is older and more experienced. It has to go on the intangibles I think - plus who is demanding the greater salary. I am really not bothered either way, although I agree Bruce has the higher upside.

the other issue is stats don't provide much information in relation to pressure situations. ive seen a few brain farts from Bruce in the dying minutes than that of Carter. the stats may show similar numbers but i think Carter has a better head on his shoulders.

Isaac, I have premature posting sydrome. Can you please delete the post above?

I really find it hard to find much to differentiate Carter and Bruce. I think they both play similar games.

Their season stats comparison is as follows:

Carter / Bruce:

13.1 / 13.5 points per 40 mins - Bruce
3.6 / 3.3 rebounds per 40 mins - Carter
6.0 / 6.1 assists per 40 mins - Bruce
2.1 / 0.7 steals per 40 mins - Carter
3.7 / 3.3 turnovers per 40 mins - Bruce
36.9 / 37.8 field goal percentage - Bruce
27.6 / 39.4 three point percentage - Bruce
88.0 / 78.9 free throw percentage - Carter
2.7 / 5.2 fouls per 40 mins - Carter
1.6 / 1.8 assists to turnover ratio - Bruce

Most of the differences are statistically negligible. The only real differences are that:

1. Bruce is by far the better three point shooter (which of course also means Carter is the far better shooter from inside the three point line).

2. Carter is the better free throw shooter.

3. Bruce commits far more fouls.

4. Carter gets more steals.

On the important assists to turnover ratio, I was surprised to see that Bruce has the slight edge.

I think they both outwardly have similar attitudes, so it is any guess who the coaches would prefer given the choice, except that Bruce clearly got fewer minutes per game (17.66) than Carter (26.6).

More importantly though, I think you can only afford to have one or the other. Both are quality back-up level point guards in this league, and potential sixth man of the year contenders. Neither in my view should be in anyone's starting 5 calculations. That really probably means you can only afford to have one or the other in your roster.

each to their own anon. i think you should get off the drugs if you think bruce is better.

my reasons for keeping carter.

Carter is a better ball handler
carter is a better passer
carter is a better shooter
carter is getting much better and will only get better
carter can hit the 3
carter has less turn overs and is a good leader on the court.
carter doesnt lose his head in a pressure situation, where as bruce tends to take the team on his shoulders and coughs it up.

by no means am i a bruce basher but if i had to pick one carter would be my choice every time.

..... and there lies half the appeal.... Sturt.

Big man 'assistance' carries an impression of back up for Johnson n Ballinger at 5 n 4.
Clarke confirmed for another season.
An Aussie PG for Shannon. Most likely Gibson.

2009 - Dragons (Horvath/Burston)

Yeh it is a bit of a shame but he will definitely get 4th quarter minutes with us at our current win to brain fart ratio

Beantown, i disagree that DJ would suffer in development if we got Schenscher, i think he would benefit by training with a well established centre as good as schenscher. he would still get reasonable court time but when it gets to the 4th and DJ keeps missing his layups as he always does its the perfect time for an experienced guy like schenscher to put it down. i think they would be a good combo.

If we could get a healthy Redhage for Balls I'd do the swap in a heartbeat! Cue outrage from Xztatik ;-)

Redhage for Balls???

Jonno, I'm not sure DJ would grow as fast as we would like if Schenscher came back and we kept Balls. Could end up being an overinvestment in big men and might make us a little slow against the Wortho's, Petrie's, Wilkinson's and Redhage's.

At this stage, I'd pin my hopes on DJ and resign Balls to play PF if he wants to stay. While there does seem to be some stats and anecdotal evidence that Balls is a net negative on the team, I'm stuffed if I know why, because when I watch him, he is clearly an excellent shooter, has improved on D, is blocking some shots, rebounds okay and plays hard. About the only thing I can pinpoint is that he is a little slow to guard guys like Wilko, who can take him out on the perimeter and then drive or cut to the basket. But better defensive rotations should cover for that.

In the end, my hunch is that it has been the combination of players and inability to get him easy shots consistently that has been the problem.

The other big reason to try to keep Balls is simply: who else can we get who is better?

So as far as bigs goes, option A (sans a Khazzouh option!) should be to pair DJ and Balls as starters and see how we go. If both are effective, Holmes and Dowdell bring enough off the bench to have us covered.

Then all we have to do is get some good imports...

Johnson's day out in the Big V Championship division was in a 144-76 win against then lowly Warrnambool...

66 points, 25/32 FG (0/2 3PT, 16/18 FT), 15 rebounds, four assists, three steals and two blocks in 40:18.

id take carter over bruce any day of the week. i cant believe people are suggesting to cut carter, its got to be the worst idea since signing winder.

Honestly if we could sign Schenscher, I'd do what the Lakers do and that's run a twin towers game - Use Luke as a 5, then have him and Balls or him and Johnson on at the same time. You could rotate Johnson to 5 and Balls to 4 when Luke sits.

Then I'd just get the one import, get rid of Ng and Holmes, sign Gibson and another quality Aussie and we'd be set.

*Facepalm on the Topic*

You've just opened a big can of worms with this one.

looks like Gardiner got an offer for europe and townsville and him have decided to part ways. i didnt really think that he was that good of an import.

got to nbl.com.au if you wanna read more