Hoops

NBA age restriction and racism

Which Europeans should've made it but didn't?

Hedo Turkoglu could've (and should've, IMNSHO) been an injury replacement for the East.

Okay cheers. Born in Africa, plays in the US, and nationalised for Canada..


Tony Greig's love child?

African - Nash????

I think the real issue is not the high school players. These players take time to develop, but more often than not have ended up being worth the wait for their pro teams.
Most of these turn into good pros, examples being:
- Al Harrington,
- Stephen Jackson (he never went to college, but wasn't drafted either)
or All-Stars:
- Kevin Garnett,
- Tracy McGrady,
- Kobe Bryant,
- Amare Stoudamire,
- Lebron James,
- Jermaine O'Neal
some have potential for greatness:
- Josh Smith,
- Shaun Livingston,
- Sebastian Telfair,
- J.R. Smith,
- Al Jefferson
and some haven't (or didn't) live up to the hype:
- Jonathon Bender,
- Darius Miles,
- Desagana Diop,
- Korleone Young

The real problem I see is the young Europeans (and other internationals) entering the NBA. DOn't get me wrong, I love the Euro players, and being of European background myself I like to see the NBA 'going global', but its becoming rediculous. A number of young Europeans have been drafted by NBA teams recently without having a scoring average in double figures or even getting starting roles on their teams in Europe. I know scoring isn't everything and that it's who finishes the game that really counts, but most of tehse guys are simply not ready for The League yet (if ever). They would be better suited to wait once drafted (a la Peja Stojakovic) before coming to the US until they mature, both physically and mentally. Some international players who I believe are (or were) not ready (or ever will be) for the NBA when they were drafted are:
- Nikoloz Tskitishvili
- Darko Milicic
- Pavel Podkolzin
- Slavko Vranes
- Maceij Lampe
- Bruno Sundov
- Desagana Diop
- Wang ZhiZhi

It could just be that these players require more of an oportunity to 'show their stuff' in games, but they seem like they haven't earned this opportunity by showing their skills in practice. Sure, nobody's a 'sure thing', yet the following internationals seem to me like they belong right now:
- Andrei Kirilenko
- Dirk Nowitzki
- Peja Stojakovic
- Tim Duncan (although considered to be an American by most)
- Tony Parker
- Manu Ginobili
- Zydrunas Ilgauskas
- Eduardo Najera
- Vladimir Radmanovic (despite his consistent inconsistency!)
- Yao Ming
- Nene`
- Samuel Dalembert
- Primoz Brezec
- Nenad Krstic
- Marko Jaric
and a few others.

Maybe the league should focus on not giving guys such as these international, high school, and college (such as):
- Kendrik Perkins
- Qyntel Woods
- Joe Forte
players false hope that they can be NBA stars rather than just imposing an age limit. It's not right to shatter young guys dreams, but some of these guys need to realise that they just might not be good enough for the NBA. The age limit might work, but I can't tell for sure..... What do others think?

NBA

<a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYTg2ZTBwBF9TAzk1ODYxOTQ4BHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=dw-agelimit041305&amp;prov=yhoo&amp;type=lgns" target="_blank">there is another good link here.</a> isaac, how do you create links and quotes with this forum? if this is the wrong formatting can you fix it for me? <blockquote>The theory behind the proposed 20-year-old age limit is that Diop would have gone to college for at least two seasons and scouts would have been able to identify his slow feet and a lack of talent. Cleveland would have spent its money elsewhere. And that is why the rule is being proposed. It isn't about LeBron, Kobe or keeping young black guys down. It's about protecting owners from Diop, Darko Milicic and Kwame Brown. The flaw in the NBA's logic  besides being completely un-American and running contrary to a talent infusion that has re-energized the league  is that it ignores the fact that franchises made draft blunders when everybody went to college, too. Four-year guy Michael Olowokandi was the No. 1 pick overall in 1998, remember. Sam Bowie was famously taken ahead of Michael Jordan. Anyone remember Joe Barry Carroll? Dennis Hopson? But that's the draft. It's a crapshoot. Even four years of major college ball doesn't assure anything. Some of the most confusing picks of the last few years haven't been high school seniors, but college ones. Trajan Langdon, Ed O'Bannon and Cherokee Parks all got lottery money. Tayshaun Prince and Josh Howard didn't. NBA owners think the age limit will help them avoid drafting a high-priced, low-quality player. That, in itself, isn't racist. But it isn't sound thinking either.</blockquote> <cite>(Mod: The forum accepts standard HTML.)</cite>

ouch!

ITA, that is ruthless, netherless i'd better put my two cents in.

Dr D, i think Stern is more concerned with their local talent, he would welcome more Euro players, as it would increase NBA's global marketing.

Frank, you seem dead on, its more about how adjusted these kids are.

D, you have missed the point twice now, perhaps you need to play split line some more before you commit, otherwise you'll get burnt.

d

It would seem to me that section 85Q (division 6,part 5a) of the Equal Opportunity Act of South Australia (1984, reprint no7) renders your argument invalid for circumstances of sport related discrimination by age, given that it specifically indicates that "the exclusion of persons of particular age groups from participation in a competitive sporting activity" is not unlawful.

cheers.

Shutup!! - good point. I will be more carefully in what i write.

Here is the section i was talking in reference to from the ESPN story

"How many European/foreign basketball players have entered the NBA draft out of high school without professional experience? None. Even if they're younger than 20, they can play professionally in Europe before entering the NBA, like Darko Milicic (who was 18 his rookie season)."

But that does support one theory, that stern may be using it as pre-emptive action preventing an abundance of young euro ballers.

Any word on a reply from Stern???

Because the restriction is age related. In the current status quo it is indirect discrimination, but who's to say next year juzovaqibekistan (small western european country) isn't goin to produce a 7"4', 280 pound, 18 year old with undenyable range.

I dont disagree that its race related, but i just dont think it could be stopped on those grounds.

It would be similar to trying to implement a rule in local ball saying you have to be under 70yrs of ae to play, and then arguing that it discriminates against ppl with Grey Hair. Although in effect it does, the rule makes no mention of hair color.

d

again i think you need to read carefully as i think Dr Dunkenstein explained to you it is not a racial issue.

let's put it simply... to say "palyers under 20 can't play" is an age issue. whereas to say "black players under 20 can't play" is a racial issue.

secondly... you cannot assume anything. If you are going to refer to "Australian law" and then "US law" you really must cite the legislation you are referring to.

d - read carefully what i said,

"the actual rule itself is not discrimnatory on a race level, only on a age level"

yes, i agree it still is a form of indirect discrimination however the rule, should stern wish to implement it, couldn't be stopped on the basis of racial discrimination tho.

I suppose one benefit of the system would be it would stop some of these kids going through their last years of school not studying, hoping for an NBA contract.
We only hear about the success stories, like ITA said. Where are those kids now that applied for the draft out of school, and didn't get picked up? We dont hear about those players.

the unfortunate situation in the US now is that although the NBA's proposed age restriction rules would affect approx 100% black kids, the actual rule itself is not discrimnatory on a race level, only on a age level, therefore panther, NBA would have no trouble if it went to court, intention aside. It is the intention that Stern is going to have the most trouble explaining to the public. There hasn't been any one convincing thread of evidence thus far.

(Isaac, that Freddy Adu kid is only 14-15 the article says. That's crazy.)

although there hasn't been a european enter the NBA under 20yrs could it be pre-emptive action against an influx of Euro's?

I think i got what your saying coach k. Going to NBA straight away takes away the option of college, for those players that don't get picked up they have no option, but if they go to college they still have the option of playing NBA.

Basically I think that is where the problem lies... is nominating for the draft really a professional? If they are picked up then they can't play college, fair enough...

but if they aren't then they have not entered into any professional contract? should that mean they can still go to college? Tough to say they can't, and i think that is the problem, not that young players are bad for the game, clearly there are some that have made it straight from school, how many high school kids have nominated and not made it? you don't hear those stats, it's like game winners, everyone remembers the bucket you made on the buzzer, but how many did you miss on the buzzer to lose in previous games?

but if this was changed every1 would nominate every year just in case, and then play college if they didn't make it.

hope that makes sense.

I hope someone understands what I wrote, cause i'm not sure I do!

Won't this be a hot topic around the NBA. I think the age limit is a good idea. Not all High Schoolers who declare are going to be drafted, and once they declare and aren't drafted the only option for them then is to play O/S. In doing that they are giving up an education, which is something they need later in life, and should, unfortunately, injury cut short their career. Im sure they all dream of the millions to be made in the NBA to help their family, but playing here for example, where there is little money to be made due to the ex rate and salary cap, wouldn't help their families much more than the college education and exposure at that level could generate for them later should they wish to play elsewhere.