Hoops

Marty Clarke's job on the line - The Advertiser

We need to get Goorjian to coach the 36ers.

He knows the players, and has coached Gibson to a championship back at the Dragons.

He gets wins. He gets championships. He's the most successful coach in the NBL's history.

We need him here in Adelaide. Make it happen.

I'd love to see Goorjian come back from China to coach the 36ers for the next 5 years.

The starting point for 'positive energy' at games is for the team to perform well - win or lose.

The crowd by definition supports the team, not the other way around. A crowd cannot generate 'positive energy' without the team. The crowd responds to or feeds off the team, which is the starting point.

I have never seen it work the other way around - i.e., the crowd spark a team that is struggling into an exciting perfomrance.

Once the team provides the spark to light the crowd up the crowd and team can interact and feed off each other, building the 'atmosphere'.

Of course, if the team turns off, or the coach subs out the player playing with passion &/or on a streak and the team goes back to playing boring basketball and generally loses the plot [not necessarily the game] the crowd will react to that too, and return to the role of observers or critics.

It takes two to tango, and to build 'positive atmosphere' - which, by the way, is much, much more than 'noise'.

"Keeping blind faith support in order to keep people's spirits up is bull..."

So booing, chanting "sack the coach", online petitions, or just deliberately being absent from games are the best alternatives to supporting your team. From the evidence before me I can't help think our fan base as a collective is struggling as much as the organisation.

I don't understand the current coach's methods at the best of times but that's insignificant when all I'm hearing from owners, management, coach, players and fans is that none of this is experience is fun.

As a supporter it disappoints me that the people I'm paying money to support feel like the supporter group (which by association includes me and my family) is, in part, contributing to the negative experience.

This suggests to me that our approach, attitude and behaviour as fans during the tough times is just as important to the legacy of our great organisation as any contibution by great owners, management, coaches or players.

Perhaps instead of continuing down this path of anger and disappointment perhaps we, the fans, need to make an adjustment and make a more concerted effort (at the games and on forums like this one) to raise above the disappointments and come up with concepts and ideas that make the remaining games a more favourable experience for everyone (heaven forbid, coach included) and most importantly takes some pressure off the team.

Being allegedly the "most knowledgable fans in the country" doesn't necessarily make us the best. As a supporter group perhaps our collective challenge for the rest of the season, regardless of the results on the court, is to be the most supportive fan base of all the clubs. Perhaps the change in fortunes rests with us being more positive in our overall support regardless of who is coaching..

Even Marty acknowledged that everyone is hurting, perhaps it's time we got past our own individual agendas and putting more energy into stopping the pain by giving the team, coaches, management and owners the best level of support we can give them, after all, surely we are all wanting the same outcome....success for the Adelaide 36ers.

A new coach will work.

Get Gleeson now!!!

Anon - so , you thought Ninnis didn't communicate well with players . Clarke does , I know .
Cain't you give him some help at the games though
If you are not gonna make the change
So sorry Ken Cole's health ain't very good .

Please, whatever happens, whenever it happens, let's exclude Goorjian now. I see him has having played a major role in the cynical brutalising of the game that has occurred in recent years and would not want to see the 36ERs [or any other team for that matter]support or encourage that approach by employing him.

And in case you wonder what I'm on about,I am talking about the cynical approach of having his teams just go out and keep thumping and holding people so hard and often that the referees become so accustomed to it, or so embarrassed by the number of calls they need to make to try to keep players playing within the rules and spirit of the game, that they stop calling the fouls that are patently, obviously there.

It may enable them to win, but it's often a long way from what the game should be or was meant to be, in my opinion, and is usually anything but good to watch.

And before someone suggests I'm 'soft' and this is the way the modern game is played ... I do appreciate good, tough defence but that's about heart, effort and footwork, not chopping, holding, pushing, moving screens and people walking under players who are rebounding or taking a jump-shot or layup!

Anon - 472

Phil Smythe did not head coach , nor sit on the bench as an assistant coach, for a single AIS game, male of female, during his time in Canberra - His eventual wife at that time, Jenny Cheesman did have a full time coaching stint there for several years, she moved there in late 1982 early 83 - and he folowed her, left St Kilda and joined the Cannons

I believe he was listed as a skills coach - so that he could get full and free access to the AIS mediacl facilities ( as well he should have anyway as a boomers player - just as LJ does now - but the system was not set up that was at that time)

I think Marty should be given the option to stay on next year as an assistant coach. It is pretty clear he isn't up to standard in gametime situations but he seems to be a good development/training coach. Maybe a few years behind a savvy head coach would give him the development he needs to take the next step in his coaching career.

I may be one of the few but I honestly still see him making it as a coach at NBL level but just like any young player he needs time to develop before he can realise his potential. Now obviously, the 36ers are not in a position to keep persisting with him as the head coach and I agree a change needs to be made but I think the club looking to develop him rather than just burning bridges and sacking him is the way to go.

Two and half years ago Cole would have gone with Stacker , although he wouldda given Ninnis another year . Anyone , I don't care , with Cole mentoring out there.

Given the fairly dismal record of EX AIS head coaches once they have left the very unique environment of the AIS ( with the very singular exception of Adrian Hurley), I think that there could be a stong argument that AIS coaches don't translate well into the "real world".

Not saying that they don't do a good job at the AIS, just saying that it does not prepare them well for a life after.

Getting Smythe back would take the skill of a UN negotiator.

If a "clean skin " is to be considered, there's not too many names that spring to mind. Probably only a couple of assistants, but experience counts for everything in the NBL. Maybe Liam Flynn could make a homecoming?

Joyce ? Wow so Daniel for point guard then??

@very old. So no weigh in the line up for next year?

PS

Support the players, support SOS , and maybe hope that MC ( Marty Clarke or Marcus Camby ?) can make a success of this season and the next - or if not - can enjoy the 36ers doing very very well in 2013/14 witho out them .

sorry - hit wrong key

Clarke will stay until the end of the season. He will not resign because that would cost him any chance at any form of involvement with the boomers for at least 2 years. He has nowhere to "return" to.

I doubt that the ownership group want to do this to him, or to take another flying leap into the unknown by appointing a "caretaker" coach.

Do they owe a "sacking " to the fans - Phfft! what twat thinks NBL owners owe anything to fans, that just PR dribble for the Terminally Gullible ( How many sets of "free" steak knifes do YOU own ?).

The NBL owners have a responsability only to the money they are spending out of their own pocket to see a Basketball team in their area - that is the full sum of it. Thats why the NBL wants community based ownership - over the 30+ years NO NBL franchise has ever achieved a cumalative profit - or even a break even - in their lifetime. EVERY franchise has also gone broke at some stage, some have survived - some have not.

This is not the NBA.

I believe the ownership group, through the CEO, is taking on board every approach from an established basketball coach that they can. Thats why there is no " full support" statement from CEO or Charman or Board.

They know what they are going to do - If Clarke finishes with a fairytale run and makes playoffs - then all is fine.

If he does not make the playoffs, then every possibly furture contracted coach , and every EXISTING or possible future contracted player see that this ownership group will honour contracts in full, and that the CJ sacking was ONLY done at the instruction of a coach who is no longer there - but who still had their own contract fullfilled in full.

Bums on seats for the balance of this season will be financially insignificant , conpared to what would happen to season ticket sales next season if the ownership group announce for 2013/14 the retaining of Petrie, Luke, Gibson, DJ, Creek ( there's a possible starting 5) and at least one if not two very strong imports, the probable retention of Cadee, and the signing of (say) a head coach with two strong assistants , with the names (say) of Maher and Smyth in that mix somewhare.

As my previously posted open letter said - I don't think that the SOS group have actually made any bad decisions so far - they have deserved better success from those decisions - but I have not seen them panic as yet, and sacking Clarke as the ship is appearing to go under - but has not yet sunk - could very much be seen as a panic move later on.

Support the players, support SOS , and maybe hope that MC ( Marty Clarke or Marcus Camby ?) can make a success of this season and the next - or if not - can enjoy the 36ers doing very very well in 2013/14

Gibson, Schenscher, Johnson, , Weigh, Petrie, Cadee, Massinghale. Too late for Massinghale as he has ben cut. We would all agree that those players on the list can play. No doubt about that. Support from Crosswell and Daly as they can play too. Even Pero can play. We have 3 quality talls, and an abundance of guards. They can play. They are not a 6-8 loss in a row team. It is up to the coach to build these guys, give them CONFIDENCE and show them the way. To give them the freedom and belief to get the job done. Clarke is not building this team. The players are losing their belief and confidence as the season goes on. It is not a question of talent. It is not like Clarke does not know basketball, he just doesn't know how to get his players to win games,he doesn't give them any belief or confidence, WHICH IS HIS JOB. When players make the same mistakes over and over again when the pressure is on, it is the coaches JOB TO FIX THIS. A good coach will have his team improve and get better as a season rolls on. He will adjust to the needs of his players as he learns their strengths and weaknesses. This is not what we are getting.

Sorry to repeat for others - ch2 news we had to win on NYE ,
for Clarke to stay on in 2013 .

Those that follow it know that ch2 had it for this week , sorry to repeat , Maher & Cole get on pretty good and would win these next 2 , right now .

@Spinner - my post was directly relevant to yours...

"How could there have been a plan that was coming together when he has changed more that 50% of his roster?

1. Apparently YOU were disputing that the player turnover wasn't warranted.

"This was never about developing a group to be at a certain level in their 3rd year together.

2. Johnson, Creek, Weigh, Cadee all together in their 3rd year: very strong core group.

But for someone that has intimate knowledge of what the 36ers are thinking and doing you sure aren't putting it to much use on an independent forum. Go use your gift for the fate of the city!

"The infamous and fictional 3 year plan didn't come off because...…????? How much time does he need for this plan to "take shape"?"

3. I think everyone is reading too much into the "three-year-plan", mainly because every coach has a long-term plan, and it's stupid for Marty to have no vision beyond any given season if he's under contract for three, but also because very little has actually been said directly from Marty and his camp regarding the infamous "three-year-plan", yet we have inferred SO MUCH INFORMATION from a few general statements.

Spinner, I'm not saying Marty's tenure has been a successful one - I'm on the same side as you on that one - but I don't support crap arguments to drive that point.

Alternatively, here's an argument you may actually be able to understand:

Spinner is talking out of his ass because he's a shithead.

To say that there was no "3-year-plan" or that the concept was flawed due to high player turnover from year-to-year isn't a very sound argument.

Outside of the ultra-successful clubs of the past few years (Perth & NZ), every team has had a high turnover of players. This is partially due to changes is preferences from individual and club perspectives, but also the player points cap: while a useful tool, causes problems for franchise continuity.

Look hard at the list in year 1: would you seriously WANT continuity?

Troy DeVries: cut
Craig Winder: cut
Eddie Shannon: didn't renew contract
Ron Howard: didn't renew contract
Rhys Carter: overseas
Darren Ng: retired 2nd year
Nathan Herbert: retired 2nd year (from memory)
Sam Harris: didn't renew contract

Only Ron Howard deserved another season, IMO.

Year 2:

Chris Warren: didn't renew contract
Diamon Simpson: overseas (freaking NBA)
Wade Helliwell: retired

Chris Warren would've been useful, and everyone wanted to keep Diamon Simpson but this was just out of the 36ers hands.

Year 3 (remaining players):

Daniel Johnson
Stephen Weigh
Mitch Creek
Nathan Crosswell
Tom Daly
Jan Warbout

By NBL standards, player turnover hasn't been the issue - this should be expected.

I agree with the sentiment, but not the argument put forth. Find a better one.

Someone alluded that Ninnis was sacked for off court issues. Would they care to elaborate ?

Did he do a George Constanza?

I think it is highly risky Marcus Camby, but why persist with a broken instrument when you can buy a new one and get something out of it, we havent seen this season.

If they really wanted to take the pressure off MC, put Radford in-charge. I hate both, however, its a change.

But in reality, Phil and Brett would be the guys to bring in.

Now is a bad time to sack the coach, 2-4 weeks ago would have been much better, that way Adelaide may still be in the finals hunt.

Cole senior mentor to the coach and CEO.

Apologies meant to say coaches try and tell you "basketball HAS changed".

If Clarke was to go and chances are he will. Playoffs will be the only thing that saves him , I hope our next coach is not a defensive minded coach ( as much as our D sucks at times ) because our history shows that fans love it when our team gets on a roll offensively and it creates an awesome atmosphere so its no coincidence that our title coaches Smythe & Cole have both had that mentality. As much as some coaches try and tell you bball hasnt changed much since those days. The principals are still the same.I also think its vital that you have a "gun" import who if not the best is up there. An All Aussie lineup with role imports isnt the go IMO.Last few MVP's ( Lisch , Jackson, Crawford , Ervin , Penny etc )all played in sides who won or if not were in contention. You saw what Jackson did to us last week down the stretch with his calmness whereby we were clearly nervous and disjointed. Wright is my top pick and i would also seek Smythe as long as he is 100% committed.

Wright has already said he will not take the job if offered. I believe he's waiting the outcome of a Brisbane team, he has some decent cash so he can afford to wait it out.

When I spoke to Joyce a few days ago he said he would be interested.

Gleeson has a coaching gig O/S at the moment.

I don't think Maher or any other unproven option is the answer especially when there is a pool of proven coaches at NBL level like Joyce, Wright or Gleeson who may be available.
As you say it may be a case of him assisting one of these guys and learning the trade with a view for him to have a shot at running the show later on.

If they sack him you really think it will turn the season around or is this just about saving face with the fans and showing them that he's accountable?

I don't think he's the man for the job as evidence with the teams current record but I'm not sure that sacking him is worth the issues unless they have a suitable replacement lined up.
I wonder if Clarke is prepping his "stunned" or his "disappointed" look for this weekend.


IMO he'd prob be a very good assistant Coach much like Vickerman (who prob deserves a shot a Head Coaching role in the NBL).