Hoops

Jesse Wagstaff Should be Flagged by NBL

the Tigers are undisciplined, plain and simple.

Lucas Walker is a hothead and Seth Scott has also proven to be a firecracker when baited. Goulding is just young and full of bravado.

In the Walker/Wagstaff example, Wagstaff was "tangled" up with Ballinger (who in turn was pushed against Walker) and yet he made no effort to remove himself from the situation.
Walker then clearly said "get the f*** off me" just after the ref had intervened which earnt him a tech.

Would issuing a double technical for Wagstaff/Walker have made this less of an issue to the fans?

Would a double technical have impacted on Wagstaff's mentality in the game (ie: getting into his head about the niggling tactics)?

I know people want to see less fouls called in the games, and a more free flowing style, but IMO the refs need to start using the whistle more to remove the tactics and play style of some teams from the competition. Sure it will mean a worse looking product in the short term (more fouls called, slower games, lower scoring etc.), but at the end of the day if the league can remove all the bumping/holding/pulling/pushing/hand-checking of teams like the Wildcats, wouldn't the long term benefit to the league be much greater?

Wildcats need to do what ever it takes, they can't shoot the ball so they need to get it done in other ways.

'Remember reading comprehension at primary school.'
I think Isaac Forman said that.
'The situation has ended sad.' I said that .

@The Situation - simple answer regarding Hinder: I didn't see the play you mentioned, and I haven't seen a great deal of Hinder at all by not living in Townsville, not to mention his injury concerns have kept him off the court a fair while (e.g. last season). I have, however, seen plenty of Wagstaff and the Wildcats...

I don't think too many people actually read the OP:

"The worst part isn't that he is a repeat-instigator of these actions, but that it's one of the league's worst kept secrets and nothing is done about it."

Of course Wagstaff, Redhage etc should continue doing this if they can get away with it; of course players that react to provocation in an extreme manner should be tech'd; of course Wagstaff has talent, but he wouldn't play an unorthodox style of game if it were unnecessarily.

The onus is on the league and its officials to cut the bullshit actions from these players out of the game. That was my point before critics started going off on tangents.

Statman, I agree about Wagstaff, he has the talent. I just wish he'd cut out all the bullshit and play basktball.

It really depresses me that the best Australian team regularly shoots about 30-35% from the field, but keeps winning because all their opponents get dragged into the same grind it out style. In the end its brick city from both teams because noone can get their legs under them to make a shot!

Ill go into bat for Carter on this one Camel31 as I too thought he deliberately cannoned into Ballinger after a hard foul. But after watching the replay it was clear he had already left the ground in anticipating a rebound/put back and landed unintentionally on Ballinger. He then immediately grabbed Ballinger in an appologetic manner and Balls looked to accept it was accidental, nothing in that one at all IMO.


My gripe with Wagstaff is that he constantly looks to push the boundaries of sportsmanship and doesnt play the game in the right spirit. Sure its legal but the little things like someone above mentioned where he will walk into someones path and block them when they are trying to retrieve the ball after a Cats score are unnecesary and detract from the spectacle of the game. IMO its ugly and he has the talent to get the job done without needing to resort to using such tactics. And its not just Wagstaff either - he is just in the gun at the moment as I watched 2 of his games over the weekend. Hinder and Wortho are other prime examples of players who just need to stop the crap and just play the game

I haven't followed his career . Ballinger and Carter played in ADL , so I watched. Wagstaff elbowed Ballinger outta court when the ball was dead , that's why Walker reacted. Later , Ballinger fouled Wagstaff hard and Carter came in.
Walker and Ballinger called . Wagstaff and Carter not called. Maybe just wait and foul him hard.
The NBL is in trouble again , being sued by the tree blind mice . The reason for the action is the impersonation by NBL refs of the three blind mice being too close to them .

Wagstaff is my favourite player but yes he can and normally gets away with murder... Is there anything wrong with that?

There are only 3 people that can decide that and an early off the ball foul would make him think twice about the niggle.

He is too great a player to need to do this but he tries getting the ball back and does so his methods work.

Fouls should be called but its too late in the season to be changing drastically but refs should call whenever they see fouls. Enough said

The cats are like the pies in the afl!! Got the best supporters most passionet at that and every one hates them but they wish they had a team like that to support and be proud! Just a laugh on here, like bitches any excuse will do! Every other team bar nz are a joke! Dont like us dont watch us! And dont bitch about us!

Bla bla bla! Every time the cats win sumthing has to be said! Win by 28 on friday! A post up about bias calls in perth, catch fire against the tigers and its wagstaff fault the tigers lost the game! Come on every one! U dont like us fair enuf but dont go saying shit like redhage and wagstaff are this and that! Both a great players and they play! Its the refs job to control the game! And that knob saying the league wasnt strong wen the cats won that yr, wat u on? More like this yr, cats and breakers are just having traing runs for 6 month until they go 4 it in the gf! Dont u follow the crocs?

Love it how anyone with an opposing view assumes I'm: having a whinge about Perth in general, a Melbourne Tigers fan, unappreciative of physicality in basketball, basing my argument entirely on today's MEL vs. PER game etc.

Bottom line: if you actually find the pointless niggling entertaining and/or think it adds something to the quality of basketball, I hope your posting on this forum is the extent to which you influence basketball in Australia, and that you've been properly sterilized for good measure. Thankyou.

Camel31, all teams are in the east from Perth. There isn't so much as a chip on their shoulders, more like a bag of spuds.

As for the supposed heart that Wagstaff/Redhage et al display, it has been refereed out of some teams. The Wildcats, Breakers and Melbourne are allowed to set moving screens, fend off and push players out of position while other teams are called for the slightest contact. This started with Brian Gorgian coached teams and will eventually see the demise of what was a once great sporting spectacle.

I'm not a wise man from the east , I'm kinda in the middle , ADL . I got the impression of you getting the better deal , today .

NBL referees already do single out individuals, just not for infringements the Wildcats glorify.

I've spoken with one NBL referee that is based in SA, and he says that the referees will be critical of certain aspects of a game based on reviews of players and team tendencies - much like the AFL. They also focus on player's individual tendencies e.g. hooking on post moves, pushing in the back on rebounds, lifting the pivot foot on a drive.

Of course the game should be called simply in line with the rules, but with 'referees interpretation' used as a scapegoat this is less of a realistic solution as one would hope.

Redhage is likely the most unorthodox player I've ever seen, and Wagstaff evidently studied under his tutelage. However, I would argue Wagstaff is more prolific with his cheap plays now than Redhage currently is. Today's MEL vs. PER game was a testament to that - I feel for Lucas Walker, who deserved the Tech, but so did Wagstaff.

When it comes to a 50/50 call and Wagstaff/Redhage etc are involved, who actually believes it's still a 50/50 call? Don't give them the benefit of the doubt is all I'm saying.

Don't perth follow closely , but there was a game on TV today , v Tigers , and that's exactly what he did.

Not sure about the wisdom of singling out individuals, but would be most pleased to see a requirement for officials to call the game in line with the rules, including the one that says they have a duty to ensure the game is played in line with the spirit of the game and the rules.

This would address the issues raised - for all players. It would also put defence and offence on a more even footing, opening the way for the players to use, and the fans to enjoy, attacking and defensive skills.

At the moment our sport seems to be more about brute strength/thuggery than skills, and only a change in the way officials call the game will change that.

Of course such a change would mean at least some coaches would have to adjust their approaches to the game too.

You forgot to mention Redhage but I suppose that's already been done to death on these boards.

Even if you've got a point, and you probably do, you know Cats supporters are just going to dismiss you as hatin' or label you a hater right?

That tangle up at the baseline where Ballinger? got T'd up was questionable. Ref had his whistle loaded, cocked and ready to blaaoow!

I think you're right, the refs need to review a couple of those questionable incidences. When you look at the game in whole, you'll probably find there were offenders on both sides though.

With Perth it's love and hate and no in between. If you're a supporter you absolutely love them and if not you hate their ufkin guts! Unfortunately I fall in this latter group. It's like the Lakers, love Kobe but can't stand this team. Just sayin...

What can you expect really - Wagstaff has learnt from the master in Redhage! The Cats in general have been getting away with some of the ugliest basketball I've seen in the past few years.

Would love to see the NBL clean things up and reward skill level more than they do now. Unfortunately, this country is footy mad though and so the NBL has succumbed to the idea that basketball should be played like football if we want to bring in the crowds!

Agreed. Hinder, madgen are guys that antagonise and always involved in rubbish, i agree the NBL should start penalising these guys.

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