Hoops

The official sack Heal thread

Time for the people that promoted this thread as fact to admit they were wrong - mind you there are still problems with the organisation that Hudson has yet to address

Shame, I thought FoxSports would have the clip of Shane being on already like they have in the past, but guess not...

@Me: The Kings have been writing articles on all their players so far this season, I guess it was just Ben's turn... Funny timing to be sure, but no dodgy motives...

Someone like Homicide would be great and I like your thinking, Isaac, I think someone like that would help bring the swagger and get Young a bit more comfortable... He just seems like he's feeling like a bit of a mercenary for hire and it's not sitting well with him...

Not sure if Homicide should be the one? Looking at eurobasket, he's last played in Lebanon last May, but he's 36... I think he'd still have the skills to facilitate, but hasn't there been rumours about not working with team chemistry in the last few teams?

It'd be nice to have a floor leader, which he is, and he'd understand about getting the right players involved and works hard, so I'd take him over Carmouche, sadly... but I'd be concerned about wrecking team chemistry even further...

What's the difference between the Sanders comparison and the Young comparison? Wouldn't they be exactly the same? I don't recall either Sanders or Young missing a game, nor do I recall there being any games between Sanders leaving and Young arriving.

Actually, more recent news is an article trying to spin away from the current mess:

http://www.sydneykings.com/article/id/bwjv86j2xm8u1lzjmug8iuady

It contains quotes from players saying the same old things, and also the worst use of images I've ever seen in an NBL article, and that's saying something... At least the NBL can use images ok in their articles, but the Kings repeatedly butcher and squish and squash their shots to make them look even uglier...

Nice find Anon, great comparison

Speaking of soft shells, Ennis needs to learn to deal with some heckling too!

Which reminds me of the "Radford Curry" incident last season. I forget the guy's name, but after a loss last season he basically gave MR some curry from the sidelines and MR served it back to him with a little red chilli on top.

There has been consensus that the rosters Heal has had to work with have been woeful to say the least. He has managed to make the most of what he has had and outdo coaches with better rosters.

Based on that he might be one of the best Strategical coaches in the NBL.

He seems to have a weakness when it comes to the Heckler. "If his skin were any thinner we could see his bones" Whenever he has a meltdown there always seems to be a heckler in the mix.

To be fair Anon #696, Weeks has been a long time Dev player pre-Heal and wasn't even given a contract this season... I'd say Hudson would be his Dad's boy, and while I don't doubt that Allen was his choice, and I think Burston was either still available or at least hadn't been announced at Taipans yet, was a last minute fill in for the retiring Crosswhite... I think for the points, Burston was the only other player anywhere close to being able to fill in at the spot needed, not that we have used Allen much (thank the gods) but considering what Hammer got out of him in QBL, I was ok with him giving him a chance for limited minutes... If it paid off, all the better... It hasn't, so back to the drawing board...

Otherwise, I agree that it's mates rates for Harvey, Gleeson quite possibly as well, but had been a better performer in the lower ranks and at least a more known commodity than other names going around... I've been on the record many times not liking the big chunk of points that Harvs has been taking up, even though he's very personable and great with the fans, on court, sadly, he needs to hang up the boots...

looks like heal can earn $60k a year for 3 years

Agree with Jones29
No doubt the Kings board need to shoulder responsibility for this. They are the ones who have caused it all. Did anyone read Boti's articles when Young was first signed. The King's weren't answering Boti's calls and couldn't confirm his signing. Silence . No return calls. No professionalism. Any wonder things are sliding as they are now. Everyone keeps pointing out the simple solution about needing PG and what is response from the Kings. Zero. All they can do is heckle the coach they should be supporting. All class.

Wait. Heal coaches?

Having a passion and the $$$$$$$$$$'s to be a basketball team owner does not equate with being a strong basketball administrator or leader - Hudson was in charge of West Sydney Slammers, West Sydney Razorbacks and both ventures failed -little confidence that he can lead The Kings and this current debacle and his lack of comment is indicative of poor leadership

@Anon451580 - you pretty much read my mind... but I had (with points ratings just in case):

Damo (10) / Cadee (6)~
Madgen (10)^ / Maynard (3)
Import (10) / Ellis (3)
Peach (8) / Garlepp (7)#
AJ (10) / Brandt (3)
Total: 70

^ - Madge could possibly/should go down a point this season... I'm not a Wildcats fan, so I'm not going to say he should be re-rated Redhage-style down to an 8 or whathaveyou, but a 9 is reasonable...

# - We got lucky locking in Garlepp at a 4pt rating, if there's still a cap next season, would be good to test the waters to shave an extra point off him if possible...

~ - It would be great to get Cadee back home, but also an option is Tomlinson if he hasn't cemented his roots too much down south...


Brandt is another local boy and by all acounts, doing really well coming back from a redshirt season... Have had my eye on him for a little while and would give a legit backup 5 presence... Plus his little bro is a Dev player, got to keep the family sweet ;)

Didn't even think of Maynard, but with two legit ballhandlers in local boy Cadee and Damo, it would be possible to save 2pts if we can't pick him or someone similar up and go with a 1pt back up player...

Yeah, but that's saying that the person making that decision is open to criticism... You'd think if they were stupid enough to make the call to boot Sanders over Carmouche, there's some mental fragility there...

What's their situation under the points cap?

@JW21 - how do you expect anyone to get the best out of players that aren't working with an on-court floor leader and having to work out of position due to a vital missing role?

@JW21 - I agree that he has to try something different, but you can't honestly believe that things CAN go about as normal when the only proper PG is removed from the team? Add to that the fact that Young just looks disinterested when he doesn't have the ball and despite all his big talk about doing whatever needs to be done to help the TEAM win, he's not doing it... He's supposed to be a defensive stopper, but I haven't seen anything close to resembling that...

@Isaac - I of course don't condone the alleged response from Hammer many years ago and the way that he responded in the game to Dunn, but I think you're underselling the abuse that was pointed at Hammer from Dunn, who had been continually "colourfully" abusing the refs for most of the game as well... From what I've heard of what Hammer said, it wasn't like a verbal attack at Dunn, it was to tell him to "f-off" as now wasn't the time to get stuck into it... Using the F-bomb in front of families and sponsors of course is completely unacceptable and he SHOULD have just not made any reaction to Dunn, but it's not as vicious as some are making it out to be... Certainly not as bad as some twitter reports of what Ennis had to say to a Hawks fan on the weekend... (this doesn't justify Hammer's comments in anyway though, I understand that)

As everyone has said at one point in recent times, if we hadn't of gotten rid of our only PG, most likely we wouldn't be in the situation that we are in now... The person who made THAT decision needs to correct it ASAP, or the season is a write off...

@anon
Can you guarantee Heal made these decisions? How do you know?
Heal's job is to run the team and up until the Sanders decision was doing a pretty good job. Made finals last year and sitting fourth and pushing for third this season. Then some bad roster moves made which have seriously affected chemistry and morale. Obviously a lot going on behind the scenes and then story of part owner mouthing off at the coach during a game. Not a good look. Heals coaching has been compromised by off court issues which will make even the best coaches look crap and effect results.
Heal is going to wear the brunt of this when it may not even be his fault. I am not even a Heal fan.
If the Kings still had a PG they would be looking good. If Heal made roster decisions then fair enough, but if he didn't then.....

If the report is correct about the comments made by Steve Dunn then it should be the responsibility of the other Kings owners to come out and discipline him and to either refute or confirm this rumour

What is happening here is certainly not good for our sport

Time to man up Phil Hudson and tell us what is going on- maybe he is grooming his son for the role - nepotism at it's worst

Not that I think it will, but please don't let the sacking happen this week. There is no more entertaining coach to watch and listen to currently than Shane.

How is this the 'Official' thread? Is it endorsed by Heal?

If the Kings had made no roster moves whatsoever, Sydney would be only narrowly behind Melbourne right now, and you could flip a coin between the two as to who will get third.

If they'd brought Young in for Carmouche, who knows where they'd be.

I can't see how Heal is the problem here.

Not sure if Ellis followed money or not (no idea what he's on).. In Sydney however he does get more of a chance to play than he would have in Perth behind Redhage, Wagstaff, Hire, Ennis and so forth.

If I was Sydney I'd be more worried about the signings of Allen & Gleeson who have seen next to no court time, but like someone above said, are getting paid to live in Sydney and practice with the team. Granted Gleeson has been injured most of the season.

Heal hasn't been sacked (yet). There was an exchange between Dunn & Heal and some things were said, I believe they were in the heat of the moment however.

In saying that, I don't expect Shane back next season.

Heal was, as a player, a PUNK. Watch the whole game v Dream Team III. If Barkley was as classless as Heal, he would have broke him in half. Sydney failed to do their research on Heal as a coach or an NBL player - he was and is toxic.

Nepotism is a real problem - Chairman Hudson - Assistant Coach Hudson - so many examples over the years - Cadee for Magden - what a joke but then again the Hudson/ Cadee click is strong!!!

Heal was a "great Player"? Really? Very liberal with the use of "Great". Canvas his ex-team mates and see if they use "Great". Good at times, always divisive.

If the decision of Sanders and Young had nothing to do with Heal then the recent results are not his fault. A team with no PG never going to perform. The damage done to team morale of playing group in that one decision is enough to ruin them.
It sounds like owners and management get too involved in the playing side of the club and Heal is well within his rights to tell them to @#$%off (especially during a game). An untenable position for any coach who should be given freedom to do his job of coaching. I can only imagine all the other crap and backstabbing that is going on "off the court" in the backrooms which only destabilise a club.

Is it official that Shane Heal has been sacked ?

A trade - Cadee for Madgen - mmmm that would be interesting ! Would a case of Coriole and a tray of frog cakes seal the deal?

Clearly both off court and on court issues are impacting the team - West Sydney went under under the current King's leadership - and the outlook for them again is a real issue - no doubt interference has impacted Shane's ability to get this team firing - as it did with West Sydney - the organisation should have ensured that someone like Damian Keogh got the chairmanship instead of being the head honcho at Cronulla Sharks - when in doubt blame the coach not the out of date Board

Heal has traditionally got the best out of what he has been given. 4 losses in a row now has them under pressure and if Heal has verbally abused the owner . . . could we see a new coach at their next game vs Adelaide?

I hope he stays on for a bit longer, at least one more game longer

Heal should have done a Ben Madgen and thrown a chair at him and then gone home and got all Aaron Bruce on twitter.

If the Kings had just kept everything as it was and never signed Young, I believe they would be pushing up with the Tigers on the ladder.
If it wasn't Heal that made decision on imports and team then i think he should resign and spill the beans on what goes on. His coaching reputation is getting trashed and it may have been the cause of others. You cannot coach a team if decisions on the team are made by others at the expense of the team. It means Heal is just a marketing gimmick.
With Madgen, Ogilvy, Garlepp, Camouche, Harvey, Hill, those guys are good enough to beat most. The one thing missing is someone to carry the ball and distribute it properly.
In saying that though they are not utilising Ogilvy. Simple plays to isolate him at the post and sitting Madgen, Harvey and Camouche on 3pt line for the double team while Garlepp times movement into the paint for the boards. Sounds great on paper, just need the coach to implement.

The kings have have been welcomed to the Marty Clarke era.

From what I heard, the Sanders decision was out of his hands, but the fact that it was made by someone is ridiculous. Hard to blame Hammer for that, but I agree something has to change. Removing a key PG has had a ripple effect throughout the team, chemistry, getting the right players the right shots, organisation, all are suffering... AJ isn't getting his shots, Madgen isn't able to work off the ball to get open, the team just looks lost on the court... Nothing is being run, it's just looking so disorganised when teams force them to play a half court game...

Hammer has done some great things for the Kings as a coach, re-signing Madge, working on AJ in his off-seasons and bringing him in this season, bringing in Garlepp, but he's also brought in Gleeson and Harvey, the latter of which is just a liability, so I can't say he doesn't have his dodgy moments... What he's achieved with the teams he's had has outweighed that in my book and it would be a shame for him to cop the brunt of the down swing... Especially when the team shot 47% from FT line tonight...

What has to be done? PG... Will it be done? I doubt it...

The commentary team got something right - it was the dumb fouls Ogilvy and Young made in the third quarter that cost Sydney the game. There's not much Heal could have done about that.

They start focused & then they fade away. His coaching has been ???. He has pressure on him now. Samcro cant save him!!!

I quite like Hammer coaching the Kongs as an opposition fan we can still give him plenty and he loves it. I just hope I don't respect him more than his own players.

He has made some good decisions regarding his squad; Ogilvy was a brilliant decision, Harvey as sporadic as he plays is still quality and you'd gather a locker room leader and Brad Hill to PF was genius (didn't he score like 40 in pre-season). Garlepp is far better than we thought he would be warming the bench at the Blaze!

I think Hammer is great for the Kings brand and great for the NBL and I love having a coach that gives you as much as he does.

I can't understand their PG situation (what's with Gleason and his lack of court time) but I still think Sydney has overachieved this season and who thought Madgen would be as good a player as he is?

Not sure how influential Heal was in Crosswhite retiring or the Aaron Bruce situation but Heal doesn't deserve a contract extension but he deserves to keep his job!