Hoops

NITP selection camp for U16

I was complaining he didn't make NITP early on when it would have helped him to develop as a player. Instead NITP took him after he had developed significantly but was looking at other, more advanced, opportunities. NITP should have identified his potential early on instead of working with kids who were early maturers but limited long term future in the sport.



You need to get over yourself, sorry to be so blunt, but obviously he WASNT ready for NITP, and WASNT showing potential at the time compared to others, so he went off and improved, that's what you have to do, and then He was selected, and by not accepting you have just compromised his future within the basketball Australia pathway....good job mum or dad, let your own ego kill your kids opportunities. Parents need to butt out step back and let the kids do the work, it paid off for your son, but then you still were not happy

And your complaining he didn't make NITP lol

Oh for gods sake parents move on, there is next year tell your kids to work their arses off and go prove those selectors wrong! This is like a war and peace novel, get over it the kids probably have

I am not buying into the selection arguement, however some may be missing the point of such a program.

It teaches kids with potential more than just basketball skills, they also have a chance to learn discipline, sacrifice, planning, responsibility and other important life skills along the way.

Then they have to show that they can cope with the extra responsibility and effort to fulfil their potential and a select few will have the chance to then step into the elite senior environment.

Based on what such programs are supposed to provide, those who graduate will be better equipped as leaders and have a much better understanding of what it takes at the elite end of a sport, in this case hoops.

As with any such program, often you will get from it what you put into it.

Unfortunately some years it has been better run than in others and at some locations it is better supported than in others, not going to deny that at times in the past it has not provided what it has promised, however what I see at the moment, at least here in Vic Country is that it is being very well coordinated and run.

Nepotism at it's best

And all 5 diamond valley un16 girls made the squad, no Dandenong players at all which is unusual considering they finished second on the vjbl ladder and have quite a few bottom age players.

I get the frustration on NITP selections. It isn't perfect and there have been kids that have missed out in the past that have raised eyebrows and equally others that have been inclusions. I don't know what the criteria is that they look for to include some players that may not be "the best" right now, but they are usually tall, athletic with potential to be developed. The difficult thing is the limited places we now have at NITP to include all those with talent that deserve to be there so decisions have to be made.

Bulleen girls have a good number included in NITP. they sit on top of the VC ladder in 16's and third in 18's and those players included have been in state teams or emergencies in the past. We have no selectors at NITP .

I am a little over the Diamond Valley bashing on this thread. I can only assume the 2 included in the second side are bottom age. We too have three selected from our second side who are bottom age 16's. I understand the frustration is the perception of bias from DV NITP selectors towards the players but we are also impacting young kids who I really hope are not privy to this forum.

At Bulleen we run an State Performance Program led by Darren Perry where those players that are just outside NITP selection. IMO this session is better than the NiTP sessions (maybe biased :) but one of the boys who worked in this program made NITP for the first time which was a great outcome for his commitment to improvement.

All clubs need to focus on lifting the quality of coaching and NITP or no NITP, you can get great coaching for your elite players within your own club.

With so many elite in one team how did they not make classic, are they sitting top of vc?

Ais or cofe as its now called are at every nationals which is suppossed to be the representation of the cream each state has to offer.
Just how many spots do you think they have. Answer is very few so the reality is 99% of kids will not get their. Hence why something like nitp is warranted. All kids develop at different rates and to be honest have you seen what ais have turned out from all who went there. Only a small percentage of them come out better than when they went their(girls in particular) as they choose them way too young and in all probability they would have success even if they didnt make the ais. How many players who are standouts at un14s ever make the grade as seniors

Just wait and see what the quality of coaching will be from Melbourne United. Don't expect it to be elite if the people I think are running the community sessions are the ones I think they are.

Unfortunately bu walking away from BVC you are limiting your child's pathways even further. If you have a country address you cannot get through into the metro side of basketball. My advise being a former country parent is to just keep at it, play local play rep do all the country tournaments that you club goes to, and ask can your son can train with the NITP group as an invite. Talk to justin schueller explain how much he just wants to play and do the extra work. You catch a lot more flies with honey than salt. Instead of being angry ask what does he need to work on to get selection next time. My kid missed out one year, this is what we did, though long before Justin was there, they trained hard every week, but didn't get to the weekend camps, until the end of the year and they got an invite. Next year they were selected and have since gone on to represent Australia. Don't walk away, look for the window of opportunity to open believe me it will if they have the desire and ability.

487039 box hill is run by the Nuna 12.1 girls coach who refuses not to play zone and develop his girls in a no zone comp. he is a joke so I suspect box hill would not be development focused

487039 box hill is run by the Nuna 12.1 girls coach who refuses not to play zone and develop his girls in a no zone comp. he is a joke so I suspect box hill would not be development focused

Reply #487407
re: NITP selection camp for U16
Are you serious, they just picked the best kids??? Can you get me some of the stuff that you are on because you must be high!!!

It's all about influence and impact. Having watch one of the selection camps, two of the best 5 at the camp didn't get selected. Funny how a number of injured kids retained there spots - even a player whose has been out injured for over a year was selected!

Would be nice,if they actually kept and tracked it, to see the data on player improvement from attending NPP & NITP, not sure there would be much directly attributable to either program.


Well obviously if you were there you were either a coach or parent! And your opinion didn't match the selectors so I'd say a parent. Go home get your kid to work on their game and get over it for goodness sake.
You have harped on for over a hundred posts it's not going to change their minds!!!

Funny about that isn't it,^.....

This parent who is complaining about NITP selections really needs to put it to bed, get over it for gods sake

There is one way of promoting accountability for selections.
Publish the list of players and clubs selected in NITP and NPP, and the list of selectors and clubs.
BV does this with state squad selections, so why not with talent id squads.
I'd be very surprised if Diamond Valley got five girls in the Under 16 girls as the team is eighth on the ladder. Maybe Under 18 girls?

Well at least finally someone's heard something! This thread has been puffing along on pure hot air for a while now.

This threads getting bigger than Ben hur !!!!

Having said that, our junior basketball competitions, such as VJBL and the equal in other states (school run comps or not), is very good and compares with over seas competitions from what I have heard.

The media coverage, money and sponsorship is of course no where near what they get in the USA system!

The majority of the money in sports programs at Australian High Schools or Universities appears to be in swimming, rowing, athletics, cricket, football, tennis, rugby and gymnastics.

Basketball either has nothing left over or is treated as a non-core sport, and I didn't even mention soccer, hockey, volleyball, netball and others competing for the small amount of dollars available.

In the USA basketball is in their top 4 sports, their TV coverage is massive, money making through sponsors and media is huge and they have 100 times as many institutions, maybe that's partly why...?

Well aware of how many us colleges their are, but that should have nothing to do with Australia's lack or ability to run a similar thing here. Maribynong sports school is high school not university. The other ones are box hill which seems to be ok sports wise but not academically, Rowville, which frankly is a total waste of time both basketball wise and academically. Those kids should be stars with all the basketball they do, yet you don't get any real standout players . Sydney have Westfield sports academy and turn out so e ok players but that's about it as far as dedicated sports schools really.

Why can't Australia have a college system like the states do, we have enough universities , we attract enough international students, so why has this pathway not been looked at, or is it because we have the SEABL and bigv, and all the other states equivelants as competition.

Agree, we could look at the limited opportunities at the top levels of basketball in this country as a reason why limitations are placed on the whole elite pathway. It is costly to sustain at the best of times, we can only manage what we can afford to manage and sustain the numbers we can afford to sustain in this country.

Especially as the pyramid is so tight the higher we go, this is very true, sad but true...

Probably more to the point once they come out of juniors no one cares who made NITP. It's always going to be selective, and never going to satisfy everyone, but at the end of the day as others have also said, if the athlete is good enough, determined and disciplined and have support in their efforts they will make it. Maybe not to national selection, maybe not to NBL or wnbl, because again their are so few spots for so many players, but if they love the game they will find their spot.

My point re injured players is they should not just "go through" but effectively have a tryout when they are fit. They should of course be included if they are talented. There was a player last round who was injured. Under 16, over 6ft and very good player with potential. Was injured during tryouts and was not selected or added later. Should have been but thankfully has now been included.

Agree with #486776. Our Club's SPP was fantastic and all kids really developed. I can't get over the bleating around this. There are so many reasons kids get selected or overlooked and sometimes it is just being injured during selections or absent for other reasons.

This is one of the areas that I think could be looked at as if there are clear omissions there should be an ability to invite players as the sessions go. That way at least those kids that should be there, get there. I suspect it doesn't happen because of funding and that there would be an outcry that they didn't go through the selection process (ie for injuries or absence) but as someone said earlier, those who do have injuries through the selection process should have to "try out" when they are fit rather than be automatically included.

The process is never going to be perfect as it is based on subjectivity, coaches opinion. for those players they see more often and are more familiar with probably have an advantage as they know what they can do or see their potential. This does not mean they are biased, just more familiar. It is more difficult for those talented players from smaller clubs only because they may be less familiar but having seeN last seasons NITP group I think many of them were identified.

Having said that I have no idea how many NITP and NPP kids there are every year, but I saw an NPP list for Victoria recently that had 20 or some names on it, so you must think that NPP nationally is 50-70 kids and NITP 3-4 times that. Most of those will not make the respective grade hence failure rates must be high


Considering npp will be made up of potential un17 and un19 national squad athletrs boys abd girls 20 from vic sounds about right

@HO, the Vic based program last season spent money and time holding classes for all athletes on topics considered useful for life skill development.

First time I have experienced it and parents also had some classes, so maybe things are changing for the better in how the athletes are rounded out...

A small attendance rate perhaps, otherwise too much left opn to speculation...

Sucess rates are far more difficult to quantify or evaluate as you could say how many actually graduate, or how many actually complete all training requirements, or how many go on to make a green and gold squad/team?

Throw in as many variables as you like, very hard to judge the success of a program that is set up to identify and develop potential foremost IMHO...

Agree fully with your sentiments here Bear, sometimes the parents take it harder than the kids do

I hope I can help some of you understand through my own experiences. Firstly I do have kids that have made NPP/NITP and yes they are in that tall category mentioned, however they have always displayed a strong work ethic and a high skill set among their peers so yes again they tend to stand out.

They have also have their disappointments over the years, not being selected at under 14 academy or not making a state team as a bottom age player or not making a national team for various reasons.

No matter the outcome, there is one thing that stands out in my mind and that is the character of the kid (and parents for mind). Your journey, like mine, will have its ups and downs, your true character will come out along the way.

For us it has always been to ask politely what needs to improve, then go back and work harder. It has always been to adopt a positive attitude and not take anything for granted.

Injuries, illness, maturity, school work, growth spurts, distractions, peer groups, effort, desire, attitude and potential must all be considered by coaches, selectors and families as they support the athlete who is trying out for an elite level of competition, no matter the sport!

Take it from someone who has been there in every aspect of these programs (other than in the coaching/selection phase), they are looking for those who have the potential to sustain elite levels of training, elite levels of skill and elite levels of character.

Kids up to under 18 age group can still be late bloomers, so it isn't over for any kid with potential and the character to stay with it. Many examples exist today of kids who only came into their own at or over the age of 18. So don't give up on them and stay positive, NITP isn't for everyone and it isn't 'Making It', it is just another step for some that has come at the right time for them...

#486454 great post and very true

#486410........ Sure there is the odd one that this happens too, but the majority of the ones selected should be there, no one gets it 100% right all the time! and quite possibly those two examples you have just given didn't hit their marks till past selection age. I too know of a player overlooked for a few years put into lower teams at rep level (due to coaches choices)but they still made NITP and state teams , they are now representing their country, so it's the same no matter what . If they have what it takes they will make it in the end NITP is not the only way through to accomplish your dreams if as a player that's what you want to do.

They are not selected at un12s and 14s if that was the case what hits the Aus camps would look very different to what it does. Maybe the odd few like the really tall ones who regardless of talent are given the chance in the hopes they can grow their skills and ability, but by the time they top age un16s they have usually sorted the wheat from the chaff. The problem is those that keep getting selected are usually the ones with the most potential but parents of those who keep missing out just can't accept it.

Exactly right, if they cannot handle the setbacks and you help them to handle them , which are all part of life and happen everywhere not just in sport then as a parent your setting them up to fail. Encourage your kids to keep trying if that's what they really want, if they don't then it wasn't for them to begin with. Firsts rule of anything is "you must love it unconditionally".

^anon above! spot on, parents should be paying for their kids to improve their game not just for selection! that's an added bonus! go in with that attitude and I guarantee both kids and parents will get a hell of a lot more out of it.

"10 x 10 x 2 = 200"


That is one age group you have 16s and 18s plus VC reserve so in my calculations you have 800 kids that could be up for selection.

200 kids in vc, think their actually more but anyway you cannot possibly take them all they dimply do not have that many spots, so people are always going to complain when they miss out.

Those that are complaining about selection, stop and think who is getting selected, the majority will be players playing in the top teams in vc, WHY because they are obviously the stronger players to be in their. Those individuals that are standouts but in weaker teams will also get to run with these stronger players and if they match up and show potential they too will be looked at. They are not ever going to put a pile of players playing met 2/3/4 into NITP ahead of those who are standouts in vc, no matter how much mum and dad think their child is the next superstar. It's the harsh face of reality.

All kids mature at different rates. Perhaps your son will get that look in next year, remember they have limited spots especially country Vic, and they will take what looks to have the most potential to improve in the future not always who's best on the day. And as a parent that can be hard to accept that perhaps others have more potential to go further . It's often those who do miss out though that end up going all the way through sheer hard work and determination. Tell him to just keep working at it.

If those injured that made the selection were in either state teams or NITP the previous year then coaches would know if they were suitable to be in again. Not sure if this is what happened here but would be an acceptable reason in my books.

^I like the honesty, and you make a fair point.

For what state, Vic country have put out their list of athletes the week after selections were held so I'd imagine each state will do the same once they are selected

Yes, ^anon, there will always be people out there with less morals than they should have, policing rules and creating them are two very different things.

We all hear things and know things, have you made any official report through your own Association's VJBL representative?

Perhaps if you had, you may feel differently, or if you have and nothing was done, then that isn't a good result for the VJBL I'd imagine...

Here is the rule, in part, as it appears in the VJBL's Rules of Operation (circa 11/2013)...

4.7 Maximum number of Clearances per Team
Teams participating in VJL 3 (or higher) will be gr
anted permission to accept a maximum of two (2)
players into their team whom have cleared from another association after having played with another association in the previous Championship Season.

During Championship Phase:
This rule will apply to all teams (except U20’s) across all age groups that are playing in VC, VJL1,VJL2 and VJL3. This rule does not apply to all VJL4 competitions and below.

Sorry to go slightly off topic, for the O.P., but it may clarify the perception that open poaching still goes on and is rife in the VJBL.

Did the VJBL not invoke a rule a couple of years back that stops more than one or two from any age group leaving a club for the same club, or something like that?

I believe this was an attempt at stopping mass exodus from a club, potentially linked to the idea that kids were being poached.

^Anon, curiously what is it you would like to see that the VJBL can do, that is within their power to do so, to stop poaching?

Is this similar in SA and VIC?

Anybody know if the structure or number of players is due to change in NSW?

I am in NSW. NITP starts at 13 here, finishes at 17. About 120 kids total in the programme.

Is this similar to SA?