Hoops

Where to now for the Boomers?

Didn't lemanis only have a two yr part time whilst Joyce got the 4 yr full time gig at AIS. If this is the case I would say they will look to move him on, as part of the criteria was they had to medal to get funding from what I heard

"Alpha

The question I raised is very much a figure of speech. Look at the junior teams of these countries, they all are doing well. Australian U17 and U19 teams have been really great in the past, especially last 6 years, so why do we fail after???"


The un17 and 19 women are usually less successful to the men, yet the opals clearly outshine the boomers in the medals department, that's another question that needs answering, though I suspect under Joyce this will now come to an end also. So for me I'd say selection seems to be the key factor, how many of those who played in the un17/19 Aus teams actually carry over into the boomers and opals squads?

Lots of great comments here. Just picking up on a few of them

- many thanks to ABC for showing the games, but please ditch Double Drivel. Santo and Sam Pang were great; these guys weren't

- once again we were hyped up unrealistically. Having bench or borderline NBA players doesn't make us automatic contenders

- I'm excited about our future prospects

- I admit I bucketed Baynes before we started playing, and was proven wrong. I loved Motum and Broekhoff and Bubbles because they made things happen. As many posters have said, we need guys who can create instead of passengers who need plays to set them up

- I cannot believe that anyone has an excuse for a FT percentage less than 80. It's the simplest shot there is, FFS

- Long ago, I was told the reason why Lithuania and Yugoslavia were so good was because they shot baskets 3 hours a day minimum. The focus on trying to turn athletes into good shooters at the AIS is a big fail for me. We went into the WC with only two recognised shooters. Dumb dumb dumb. Looking forward to better shooting in our future teams.

- I like the idea of the first round of pools followed by another round of pools and then the top two from each play for the medals. Only consistent excellence should get rewarded with a medal

- keep Lemanis, or go all out for a Guus Hiddink kind of profile for the coaching gig. Never get Goorj again.

- we should have taken a stud defender along

Once again, we end up around 9th in the world. Sigh.

As Macdub pointed out, Australia and NZ's problems stem from a lack of regular, tough, international competition. Playing 2 games Australia vs NZ every other years is just not enough.

That's why the new FIBA qualification system for the 2019 World Cup will be a major benefit for the 2 Oceania powers. Loads of H & A games to qualify and a chance to build a culture, an identity and more importantly, experience and systems.

Players age @Rio 2016 in brackets

==Incumbent== (+Mills +Bogut -Goulding)
PG: Delly(26) / Exum(21) / Gibson(29)
SG: Mills(28) / Newley(31)
SF: Ingles(28) / Broekhoff(26)
PF: Bairstow(25) / Motum(25)
C_: Bogut(32) / Baynes(29) / Jawai(29)

Yeah, I'm still a Bogut optimist. Bubbles didn't earn/get-the-opportunity to cement his spot.

Strongest locks
Mills, Bogut, Ingles, Baynes, Delly

Very likely
Broekhoff, Exum, Newley, Bairstow/Motum (not sure there is room for both)

Most Vulnerable
loser of Bairstow/Motum, Jawai, Gibson, Goulding

==Extended Squad in 2014==
Damian Martin(32) PG
Chris Goulding(27) SG
Lucas Walker(32) SF
Mark Worthington(33) SF/PF
Angus Brandt(26) C

==Extended Squad in 2012==
Hugh Greenwood(24) PG?/SG
Anthony Drmic(24) SG
Anatoly Bose(28) SG - potentially playing for Kazakhstan?
Peter Crawford(37) SG
Mitch Creek(24) SF
Jesse Wagstaff(30) SF
Daniel Kickert(33) SF/PF
Matthew Nielsen(37) PF - retired
Matt Knight(31) PF/C - unlikely (injuries)
AJ Ogilvy(28) C
Julian Khazzouh(30) C - committed to Lebanon
Aleks Maric(32) C

==Highly Touted Juniors==
Jonah Bolden(20) PF (2014 #25 Scout, #32 Rivals, #69 ESPN)
Ben Simmons(20) SF/PF (2015 #1 Rivals, #2 ESPN, #2 Scout)
Deng Adel(20) SF (2015 #81 ESPN)
Thon Maker(19) PF (2016 #1 ESPN, #1 Scout, #1 Rivals)
Isaac Humphries(18) C (U/16 Standout)

I think another issue (which NZ also has) is the lack of international basketball.

I mentioned above that you need experience at the international level, which comes from exposure.

Always hard for Aus and NZ teams to not see each other for a couple of years, then come together for a couple of weeks and be expected to be the finest oiled machine around.

Even just one series here or there can help, but naturally I understand it comes down to $ which neither side has.

The funding scheme in NZ makes it very hard - would say Australia is similar.

We can't get the best results because we don't have the $ resources. So we are stuck in a constant rut. Need the $ to get a placing, but because we can't get the $ prior we can't get the placing and then we can't get funding. Vicious cycle.

Bevo?

Gosh I think the Boomers had a enough talent to beat Turkey. Surprised me that they didnt. Boomers should have done better than 12th in my eyes.

Note: I'm not saying this to indicate we should give up, I'm say this to point out that the AIS basketball program, and the subsequent NITC system, almost single-handely initiated by Adrian Hurley decades ago, has done a job that is actually better than what those basketball-centric countries had - which is why they were asking US about how WE ( AUS) developed such outstanding talent starting from 15 years ago.

We should be very proud but not complacent about what the junior player development programs and the coaching programs in Aust have achieved over the last 30 years

ALPHA
" how countries such as Lithuania and Serbia with populations smaller than ours have been capable of competing successfully at the highest international level for decades. And yes they miss some key players yet they are top 8."

I can answer this question. Having actually been in a conference room with the national basketball federation of both these countries ( al though a few years ago now and at separate times) neither understand the relevance of the question " how do you get your players to choose basketball" - they simply had NFI what this question was about. The Lithos were world champions in basketball pre WW@ ( the 1939-1945 one).

If every AFL , Rugby and soccer player Australia has ever produced had their first preference in junior sport as basketball , then we would be almost unstoppable ( and lets put Netball in there as well)

There are parts of the old Yugoslavia where basketball is and was well above soccer in popularity and in financial backing.

Turkey miss the 3, or Australia get that last basket, we don't have this thread. (at least, not yet).

Great write up Naph. On the money IMO - could not have put it any better myself.

In Rio we desperately need Patty and Bogut to be there. They are our 2 best players by far. Ingles is super talented but does go missing at times and looks lazy at times but still a terrific player.

Bogut, Baynes
Simmons, Bairstow
Ingles, Broekhoff
Patty, ?
Delly, Exum

from a kiwi perspective , they the boomers tank this game aswell? or nah?

Goulding - Hopefully Europe improves his defense to the point that you'd want him in the side. I don't think he makes the team if Patty is healthy.

Broekhoff - Stepped up in a big way and unless he regresses or has major injuries you'd think that he will be our designated 3&D guy for years to come.

Gibson - Wasn't terrible, but I still don't think he's a world class guard. Not everyone is a Delly fan, but the drop-off when he is off the floor hurt every time. We desperately need Exum to become a PG or at worst a combo-guard rather than being converted into a SG.

Ingles - Mainstay of the team. I hope we're looking to him and bayne for our veteran leadership sooner rather than later

Newley - I like him a lot more as a bench player than a starter. Great energy guy when he is on, but questionable decision making doesn't look like it will ever change. FT's!

Dellavedova - Far and away our best PG. I expect he'll only get better as he settles into being a pro. A year with James/Love/Irving is gonna be awesome for his development.

Bairstow - Had some good moments, but he looks like he's simply too physical at times. If he can reign that in could be a good contributor again in the future.

Exum - Good experience for him. But clearly not ready for the world stage just yet.

Baynes - Great tournament. Still doesn't come across as being very smart/wise, but is becoming very good at what he does well. Likely to be the mainstay of our frontcourt for some time on the strength of this tournament.

Andersen - He looks done. Probably needed his experience with all the young bigs (who else could we have selected) but he just looks old/slow out there. Ineffective on offense, and that is meant to be his strength.

Motum - High energy big like Bairstow. I think Bairstow is likely to provide more of what we will need going forward, but he's certainly still a chance with the extra range he provides.

Jawai - Better than I expected given his pre-tourney form. Would love to see what he can do when fully fit/healthy. His passing and patience in the post was a revelation. Don't remember seeing that before.

Lemanis - had some decent game plans for individual teams. But I don't think the offense uses players talents to their best effect. I'd like to see more pick-and-roll for Delly/Ingles. Run more plays for shooters (Broekhoff/Jingles). Like to see less of Baynes/Andersen/Bairstow/Motum catching the ball above the 3-point line with their back to the basket. I get that you're trying to move the defense, but particularly on Baynes/Bairstow all you're doing is burning your own shot-clock, as the defense stays home and our big waits for another guard to run around for the hand-off. How can we not defend the Pick and Roll any better? The sheer volume of uncontested layups where we were beaten on the perimeter and nobody rotated to challenge the ball was also frustrating. I get that some of that is bringing a team together, in a short time, but seriously.

I felt pride when they stood up and beat Lithuania. Nothing since then.

I am proud of the individuals making it to the NBA and Aussie hoops getting some recognition but I think that is ultimately to the detriment of the local competition and to an extent the national team.

As players become more 'professional' (ie playing in NBA and Europe) their interests and accountabilities will be more with their employer (fair enough when you're talking about that sort of $$$), let alone the extra wear and tear their bodies take in the stronger leagues.

My opinion:

You don’t win with 20/21/22 year old players – no matter how good they are.

You go deep into the WC with experience and players that have gone there before. LTU are a great example of this – Sure, Jonas is 22, but look at the ages of their other players including their captain - 34, 34, 30, 29, 32, 28, 29. Those senior guys carried them home against NZ. Experience counts.

If you think Exum, Simmons and maybe Maker are going to come in and leapfrog Australia right into medal contention for 2016, you’re gonna have a bad time. I remember when the USA put college stars and recent draftees into their 2006 team. Some of the best players in the world and crazy athletic freaks – and they lost. Because Greece’s experience won on the day.