Hoops

Which side are you on? Fraser or Marvin?

The ONLY basis I have for evaluating FTA revenue is that up until very recently NO FTA network wanted it. ie, it wasn't worth a cracker.

Many SEABL clubs have NBL players on their roster, not sure that could work.

All the Perth games live to the East coast will rate. Not.
11 pm or 11:30 pm will rate well. Not. AESDT.

Blitz101: Not on TV that ive seen. Ive seen many a newspaper advertisment, many a radio ad, and a lot of billboards but not really a tv advert by the Cats. I think more of their visual budget goes into their Youtube efforts. Then again I have seen a couple of Channel 10 promos for the Cats (not the NBL in general)

The Wildcats tv series is a combination of highlights of games, them out playing lawn bowls, bits on Wilbur the Wildcat and so on. Its pretty reguarly updated. THats on youtube only though.

it doesn't matter which side you're on
when you're on the titanic

I'm not a Perth supporter, hence I don't get to see what he does in the flesh.

Hence why I asked what he does (it was a legitimate question)

Re: the comment regarding the assistant coaches and the prayer room.

That's because as fans of teams other than Perth, we only see the spending. Don't hear about anything else.

@paul, this is true, any sport can stuff up and waste many $$$ if they are not midnful of how they manage their product, so the NBL is no different to the AFL, NRL, A-League or ACB in regards to its financial future and growth of thier game.

The only difference is the product, the structure and potential.

If the NBL can get its structure right it will improve the product to a point where TV will jump on in leaps and bounds, why?

Because basketball is probably the one with the most upside (potential to grow)! I believe our ceiling is much higher and we are coming from a lower base...

Think about it, none of the other sports mentioned are truly cross gender, sure girls play them but not in the percentage they play basketball. The WNBL is proof of what I am suggesting here.

We have a real advanatge over other sports in some areas IMHO. I believe we just need to get our heads right and we can move forward, grow and compete for the TV dollars...

PS, not counting games like golf or tennis where females make up a huge % because they are not really our competitors in this market I don't think.

Anon #221, try international cricket from Dubai mate!

But therein lies my concern.

Marvin had money, spent money and has made money.

Most owners don't have that initial cash injection that Marvin had.

Im positive I heard O'Neil on radio yesterday as I was driving home talk about there needing to be more money spent on Advertising and the 'front office'. I missed most of the first part of him talking but Im certain he was he disappoint about the lack of cash spent on Advertising.

I'm all for the idea of mid week games in regional areas. Each team plays 1-2 games a year outside of their normal arena. For example Perth could play games in Geraldton or Kalgoorlie. Melbourne could play in Geelong/Bendigo, Townsville and Cairns could play games in Darwin/Mackay/Rockhampton...and so on.

Not only would this provide weekly games for TV coverage but it would also go to communities that don't get to see live games. May even help in growing fan base and sponsorship.

These games could be played in areas where the NBL might look for possible expansion teams for the future. Would of really liked to see some games played in Gold Coast, Brisbane, Canberra, Darwin, Hobart and Wellington this year.

I wish the owners of the Melbourne Tigers did all that anon^, maybe we would have a second franchise in Victoria already, call them united, I don't care really just saying...

Anon 190,

So tell me what he has done. I'm not discrediting the bloke.

I just want to know what he has done in terms of systems, plans, strategies to get it how it is.

Please provide examples. I'm not taking the mickey, I genuinely want to know what he is doing/has done.

@alexkrad, mid week games in the AFL would just be too long and people can't afford the time, they tried Monday night football and Thursday night football, it wasn't as big and their crowd expectations are so high that they have dropped these concepts in favour of more weekend games.

The AFL recognises the improtance of bringing football back to the people, listen to the footy talk around the place and you will see they are going to be careful of dropping the ball and not going too corporate in the future.

The other thing that makes this comparison unfair is the game itself, you can play more than one game of basketball a week, not football, therefore the AFL schedule is made much harder with mid week games, not such an issue for the NBL I would imagine.

Small, shit stadiums with poor lighting isn't what people are talking about for future stadiums in a restructured NBL either.

I think you will find that a smaller stadium of about that 3,000-8,000 capacity mark is about what is needed. Quality if important and I think everyone egrees that TV deals will not be successful if we don't get lighting, seating, atmosphere etc... right!

How much of Perth's off court success is down to Marvin and how much of it isn't?

Sure Perth is absolutely the ideal model but I am more inclined to think there were other things which paved the way for Perth to get where they are at.

As good as Marvin is, he hasn't really done anything really innovative or "out there"..he built a prayer centre and hired about 7 assistant coaches..but from a marketing perspective i feel he hasn't been too proactive.

Yet he will use Perth's success to believe everyone that they are doing things mightily different.

It is important to figure out the cause and not just try to address the symptoms IMHO.

To get the TV deals and the money you have to first develop a viable product, however that also needs time to develop which in turn needs stability and interest within the community.

Are we getting the process in the right order? If we don't get the horse driving the cart we are in for another messy future in front of us...

Not any local Association on it's own Anon^, you gotta think outside that square sonny jim, look towards the sky and think of combined basketball communities (more than one Association), to create a strong community model by combining resources...

Kind of what Melbourne United is trying to do, but on a scale they can manage better! Think of Victoria as having the potential for six NBL teams, for example:

Melbourne Tigers
Melbourne Dragons
Melbourne United
Melbourne Magic
Bendigo Braves
Geelong Supercats

I am only naming them from previous used names as a concept (not saying this is how it would be), don't hang me on what or who they are, this is just an example of potential markets in Victoria. If you can split Melbourne into zones and adopt something like a grouping of Associations model you will get what I mean...

...And include New Zealand, of course...

The main issues then are these:

1. Crowds
2. Money
3. Standard of competition

1. CROWDS - We don't play in huge open air stadiums (like footy or soccer), therefore we must accept and adapt to smaller indoor stadiums. Not a problem if we have more teams that are supported by locally situated basketball communities. This also creates rivalry and tribalism, crowds will be more consistent, if not massive and sporadic.

2. MONEY - In stead of always running out of it by creating fincnial nightmare situations, the new NBL model should look at how it can be more financially viable. Smaller franchises, more of them, backed by several local Associations I believe will be far more financially survivable and throw in TV money with the tribal rivalry this creates, then we don't have the problem of losing teams.

3. STANDARD - Each team should be able to afford a very handy starting line up, the bench would not be as strong as it is in the NBL now and like @Isaac says^ this creates more of everything. It also makes coaches think more about their substitutions and the best players will stand out more, maybe even become super stars in the league by doing so...

Yes, this idea has been spoken about before and yes, it is taking one step back to perhaps take two forward, but I have always though going down this track is the answer for basketball here in such a small population country like Australia!

@Very Old, I liked reading that post, it showed some perspective when comparing population bases and then including where an NBL franchise might best work.

Obviously there are many other consideration to put into play for an NBL franchise to work in any city.

The idea of stand alone franchises here in Australia however is never going to be anything like an NBA or Euro League because we just will not be able to support these, the sport just has too many established competitors.

What could work for basketball however, is the Association backed model??!

If we could tap into the huge numbers of participants playing the sport across every city and somehow connect our NBL or potential NBL teams with these markets then we may have the supporting networks behind our NBL franchises, necessary to expand the competition...

No matter how we break it down, the problem is that stand alone NBL teams are not attractive enough to make an expansion viable, or at least that seems to be the case for the most part!

I think I remember Brisbane getting huge crowds at one time 10,000 ? - which is still (in todays terms) only 1 in 200(0.5%) of people. Canberra was HOT HOT HOT in the 80's,with NO AFL, NFL or Rugby - and I think may have got as much as 3500 people or probably 0.75% attendance at some games then they got to be lucky to get 1200 and had to close off some of the stadium .

Adelaide arena has an 8000 capacity , so that requires a 0.75% attendance to get full.

I favour allowing the "normal" markets to have smaller home stadiums, and if they need to have midweek games, have them host "big" or strong "rivalry" games that can attract crowds, like Gong (H) Vs Sydney.

Have an enforcable equalisation policy on income and sponsorship that supports the smaller markets (that a smart large market CEO would know they need to have in the league to play against).

put a second team into Perth, and its still got a bigger population "share" than Canberra - but then I think you would hear the squeal carry clearly eastward not only over the Nullabour plain , but also over the Hay Plain as well.

you will NOT get crowds (4000+) filling large stadiums at odd weekday games anywhere other than for the occasional big important games in Perth/syd/melb/Bris.

Sydney died trying to do it, perhaps melbourne could , but every other populations base won't succeed.

see here
http://blog.id.com.au/2014/population/australian-population/the-50-largest-australian-cities-and-towns-by-population/

below is 1 to 21

Sydney 4,373,433
Melbourne 4,181,021
Brisbane 2,143,121
Perth 1,901,582
Adelaide 1,263,888
Gold Coast – Tweed Heads 605,134
Newcastle – Maitland 425,895
Canberra – Queanbeyan 418,856
Central Coast
Sunshine Coast
Wollongong 286,581
Hobart 206,560
Geelong 181,853
Townsville 176,035
Cairns 145,003
Darwin 119,597
Toowoomba 112,588
Ballarat 96,940
Bendigo 96,940
Albury – Wodonga 86,274
Launceston 86,188

thats an almost 33% drop between Perth and adelaide, and a 50% drop between adelaide and the next population, and a 66% drop between Adelaide and a "anticipated" canberra market that is the 8th largest population base ??

I suspect that Marvin, sucking of the biggest avable financial teat. and the NZ guys with all of NZ behind them, just do not "get it"

if the NBL wants to expand to a more marketable 12 team size ( 6 games per round for TV and internet to have at least a few products to sell) it needs to realise that syd/Melb/Bris/Perth franchises will be the odd markets that should survive irrespective of the structure, and that the majority of the rest of the league will actually be the "normal" markets where the design of the way of how the league is run ( for financial viability) will need to cater for to ensure some stability.

The immediate way would be for the big markets to give 66% of their "box office" to the teams from small markets. its a equalization thing. Like that's going to happen.

I think having games in bigger stadiums looks more professional and I support weekend games. Although I wouldn't be against a televised midweek game.

Will Fraser leaving affect the Brisbane NBL bid at all?