Hoops

BIG V News for 2015

No problem with that idea at all anon^, at no time have I stated that what CB has done was the way they should have gone, I have merely stated that they did and I am pretty sure it has been done by other Associations before they did it.

Solid and firmly build foundations are great in theory, how many boards have you been on where this has been implemented as a smooth and seamless transition?

What I have said is that they now have to work on their plans best they can with what they have. If it falls over, well it is the board that has to accept their plan failed, but their entry into SCM was their decision and it was accepted by the Big V...

If they went in top heavy, without building the ground up first, it will be a hard slog for many years and quite costly to support, but if it is the incentive juniors need to hang around the place and they develop some decent players, good on them for having a go...

Anon, you have expressed your opinion and a basic plan for any Association to adopt, but you should also consider there are many more variables and behind the scenes work that needs to be done outside of just the top end team they wish to submit, cheers.

I am not familiar with what Casey have done, nor do I know how much effort their Association has gone to in building their pathways etc...

What I do know is that at CB they have put a lot of work and dollars into many different facets of their program and pathways over the past few years.

These things take time and yes, without imports and non-local talent they would probably be in D2 or lower D1, but they chose to lift the top end to SCM and have to live with that decision.

Right or wrong, well this will be seen in about 5 years I reckon, but unless you guys know all the other factors behind the scenes that have taken place to improve the overall standard of the program and its pathways, maybe you would comment differently?

To develop those local kids takes time and lots of it, the Geelong program is ahead due to its long term domestic competition being so strong in many areas, this has developed over 30+ years, so CB being new kids on the block in this regard will need some time.

lo 57, thanks for listing the YL2 CB squad. You realise Bellarine has no youth league and players who wish to play this level and not travel an hour and a half to Melbourne choose to try out with CB?

Living on the Bellarine Peninsula may not qualify as local content in some books, but I consider those 3 also to be local content.

Your comment about the under 18 or 20 kids does not bare any analysis of the age or potential for the YL team, nor does it indicate how many current u18 or u20 kids are even capable of YL. Your opinion is just that, fair enough to have one, but it could be viewed very differently I feel...

Opportunity will be created and that is what the Association is attempting I believe.

No, actually HO I didn't miss your point about buying a team at all, just avoided commenting on it because I don't think CB invented that process...

As for the CB program, it still has a fair way to go in building the junior domestic and representative skill level, it has come a long way in the last 10 years but still has work to do. It has come from a very low base and many changes.

Whether buying a SCM Championship is going to hurt them or not in the long run remains to be seen. Also, whether their current pathways are as successful as they hope they are will be tested in time.

They have obviously begun to spend money to entice some talent, also upgrading the stadium has been a big improvement and money spent on officials, infrastructure, management and coaching has shown positive results in many ways, not all of these results are commonly known or as overtly evident.

Dandenong Rangers program does that, their bigv sides are full of dandenong juniors, the SEABL groups are predominantly former junior rangers. It's when it comes to wnbl, but even then compared to all the other wnbl teams they would still a e the most players who have been former dandenong juniors

In D1W Mildura and Geelong will be hard to go past. Geelong lost a lot of experience but have recruited extremely well in the off season. A rookie coach may be their biggest weakness, having said that, I believe with her playing experience and the professional program that Geelong runs, she will do a fantastic job.

Mildura have a new import to accompany what they already had. Losing Jasmine Simmons to the CoE will definitely hurt, however, Import (which is always an MVP candidate at Mildura) Power, Delcastegne and the supporting cast will lead the team to the finals again.

It will be interesting to see how Camberwell go with such heavy recruiting and a new coach. The pieces they have been recruited are absolutely legit! The true test will be seeing how they all come together during the season, if they click, they'll be hard to beat. It seems as though they may have the biggest budget in the league and hopefully results will follow.

Latrobe will be a massive drop off. With Dickson moving to SCW at Sth Pen and apparently no import, they will struggle. They still have a fantastic group of young players and IMO have one of the best regions for junior hoops in the state. I know this isn't junior basketball but the best junior hoopers in the state are definitely up to quality minutes in D1W. Look for D'Angelo to have a breakout season with more game time.

Whittlesea have supposedly had a clean out and brought in an import that appears to have had a fantastic career at NCAA powerhouse Baylor. They have kept last years crucial pieces and added some great players, my tip is they'll make the 4.

Sunbury have lost 1 of the O'Nial sisters and I believe Vogelzang aswell. If they actually field a team they will struggle to win a game.

Werribee have lost some experience so ive heard, as well as their best young player, however, their junior program is going very well and I expect with Lloyd involved again they will have some great success and IMO will just miss out on finals.

Western Port will win a few games but will not be successful by any strech of the imagination, the only thing that may stop them from finishing last is sunbury being worse. They had a good group of players that they have retained from the D2 championship, mind you, it hears as though they have only added players who would struggle to get a game at most other D1 clubs whilst they needed to add legit D1 level players.

Cragieburn will be another cellar dweller after losing Cann, McLean and the coach. They had some good size last year but the club was driven by a good coach and great players in Cann and McLean.

Hawthorn and Keilor had some great upset wins last year and if they can do the same this year, they may change the balance of the whole competition. I don't think either team has the talent or coaching to make finals, but having said that, every year has a surprise and 1 of these teams may supply it.

Anon^ I don't get your point? Why should this be the case for a team obviously good enough to win SCM?

Also, why should CB be made to go through lower Divisions with a team as good as it has when they have complied with all the By-laws and obviously their submission for SCM was endorsed?

In the end the decision to play them in SCM was validated, so you may just have to explain your opinion a little better or we are left to presume you may just have an axe to grind!

HO, I tend to agree, it is what it is and if it works, then the By-Laws are okay. If there is a glaring issue, I guess a submission to change them can always be made...

Thanks Anon^, do you think it would be nice to see the state champions of each Division (Championship and D1) enter a National tournament at the end of the season, so we could see them all play off for an Australian title?

I would love to see how the Big V teams would go in such an event, I'm sure other state teams would also love to know they won a National title at this level...

Thought I might do some surface research on the web in relation to the comparison between the QBL and the Big V.

Interestingly the QBL appears to be strong (13 teams including major cities and towns) while its secondary leagues SBL & SBL D2 men are obviously lower divisions (8 teams and 9 teams in more regional and smaller centres). The women's competition appears just as strong with 13 similar teams in the QBL but they combine 15 teams in the SBL.

Comparing this with the Big V in its structure at least, the Big V last season had 13 teams in SCM, 7 D1M, 11 in D2M, 10 in SCW, 11 n D1W and 10 in D2W.

I have not found a comparison for the Youth League, maybe QBL don't have something similar??

On the face of it the leagues are measurable in the amount of teams, although different in structure, however the QBL has teams in Brisbane, Gold Coast and locations where in Vic they would be in SEABL, so maybe in Vic the Big V is slightly lower in standard due to the volume of teams capable of playing a higher level that QBL!??

I know little about other leagues, not in Vic, so thanks guys...

Is there a competition where they all play against one another, or is this potentially BA's master plan down the track now they have control of SEABL perhaps?

Okay anon, here is your chance then, let us know why and how QABL is better, please?

Nope, just had a glance at the revised 2014 By-Laws and look the same.

Got a question though, with all the criticism of the Big V, can anyone give me a comparative league that is better than the Big V in this country, happy to be shown which state league is better than Victoria's...?

2008 Big V By-Laws, not sure if they have changed:

Appendix 9 Promotion and Relegation

Promotion and Relegation systems will be operated in all Big V Competitions (non-ABA Divisions) according to the following:
Promotion and Relegation

Where the league is played in more than one division the following promotion/relegation principles will be adopted:
• Teams should play in Divisions in which they are competitive both on and off court.
• Divisions are not governed by numbers – that is, there are no limits on the number of teams that should be in each division, rather, the size of each division is flexible to cope with those teams that have the capacity to compete in those Divisions.
• Where appropriate, the Executive will rule on a year to year basis the best means of operating the competition within a Division, including home and away games break-up, use of conferences and other variables.

Promotion of Teams
Promotion of teams will be on the basis of a formal application.
1. By the end of July each year the General Manager of the league will call for expressions of interest from those teams interested in competing in a higher division in the following season.
2. Clubs wishing to compete will then submit an expression of interest by the date set by the General Manager..
3. An executive sub-committee of three (including the General Manager) will review each applicant and seek input and provide feedback on the following areas:
– playing strength, current and proposed
– Game promotion
– Administration (club to office)
– Ability to meet financial commitments
4. After interview, each applicant will then be required to submit a proposal for promotion, based on feedback received.
5. The executive sub-committee will review each proposal and make a recommendation to the General Manager of the Big V.
6. The Executive Committee will be empowered to decide on which teams will be accepted for promotion – these will be informed prior to the annual general meeting of the league and an announcement of same made at the AGM.


Relegation

Relegation will be on the basis of formal application or on the recommendation of the Executive.
1. A team may apply for relegation based on its own assumptions about future playing strength, financial capacity or other reasons.
2. The Executive may decide to relegate a team based on failure to meet the league guidelines as set out in section 1.2 of these by-laws,
3. In all cases, an executive sub-committee of three (including the General Manager) will review all teams performance and, in consultation with the teams, make recommendations to the Executive Committee on teams that should be relegated.
4. The Executive Committee will be empowered to decide on which teams will be relegated – these will be informed prior to the annual general meeting of the league and an announcement of same made at the AGM.

Billy Hoyle, rumour is Shepparton will be deep and the coach will have a tough time rotating the players.. That's the word from people here anyway. But realistically I think the Gators will have a decent side, win the games they need to win and finish just below the middle of the table if the roster stays healthy. Our import has returned as well so there shouldn't be too much of a bedding period with him and hopefully he has toughened up and matured like most guys do back home after their first campaign.

Dorito is a Knox junior I have watched her play from u/8's.

Discussing the Big V is too much I think, it is a big ask to focus on such a large competition with so many divisions. Maybe better to start threads on Big V Champs or D1, Youth League, men/women etc...

Just a thought!