Hoops

BigV Competitions - Long Term Loss/Win Records

The Big V Board need to give the clowns that run Frankston a date to pay the fine, or remove the teams from the comp.

Youth League Champ is different. Teams can ask to go down from VYC (struggling with numbers or quality) and clubs request for their teams to go up into VYC if they believe they will have a good group for a number of years.
The youth league is juniors so the group of players is changing regularly from season to season. Small changes or sometimes large changes.

Note that the promotion and relegation by-laws posted above are not as per the current by-laws that have recently been updated and approved by Clubs at the SGM in early March. The current by-laws re-introduced hard promotion/relegation as the Clubs had previously approved, but had not be documented, as well as other means.

1.3.2 Promotion and relegation
Promotion and relegation systems will be operated in all Big V competitions, except State Championship, according to the following:
(a) Promotion of Teams
Promotion of teams will be on the basis of a team winning the grand final of their division or formal application.
The process for formal application is:
1. By the end of August each year the CEO will call for expressions of interest from those Associations interested in having any of their teams competing in a higher division in the following season;
2. Associations wishing to compete will submit an expression of
interest by the date set by the CEO;
3. A Board sub-committee of three (including the CEO) will review each applicant, seek input and provide feedback on the following areas:
i. Playing strength, current and proposed;
ii. Game promotion;
iii. Administration (Association to office);
iv. Ability to meet financial commitments.
4. After interview, each applicant will then be required to submit a proposal for promotion, based on feedback received;
5. The Board sub-committee will review each proposal and make a recommendation to the Board;
6. The Board is empowered to decide on which teams will be accepted for promotion. These will be informed prior to the AGM of the League and an announcement of same made at the AGM.
(b) Relegation of Teams
Relegation will be on the basis of a team finishing on the bottom of their division ladder, formal application or on the recommendation of the
Board.
The process for formal application is:
1. An Association may apply for relegation of any of its teams based on its own assumptions about future playing strength, financial capacity or other reasons;
2. The Board may decide to relegate a team based on failure to meet the League guidelines as set out in 2.3.1 of these By-laws;
3. In all cases, a Board sub-committee of three (including the CEO) will review all team’s performance, and in consultation with the
teams, make recommendations to the Board on teams that should be relegated;
4. The Board is empowered to decide on which teams will be relegated, teams will be informed prior to the AGM of the League and with a formal announcement made at the same AGM.
(c) Considerations in divisional restructures
In cases where circumstances are such that the Board determines that a restructure of divisions shall occur between seasons, the relative position
of teams that would otherwise have been promoted or relegated as a result of their on court performance shall be taken into account.

Anon^ you are correct in everything you say. I won't disagree with you, however this post is asking questions about the Big V competition and why teams that have a losing record are still in the highest Division.

What I am saying (repeating if you like) is that although the By-Laws may be interpreted any way you like, they do exist and they do explain the system and process that results in the situation commented upon.

Rightly or wrongly, if the By-Laws are ineffective you are welcome to post what you believe they should read, so the problem of losing records by teams not good enough to play in Champs is avoided...

I, for one, don't see what the fuss is about! If the Big V wants a more even competition they just have to do what HO suggests, shrink the amount of teams to about 8 and introduce strict guidelines with a performance based promotion and relegation system. Problem is that someone has to lose, you are not going to prevent that, no matter what you do...

HO, at high risk of inducing further sleep issues I have posted the Big V By-Laws above^.

Your point about a team that is likely not in the correct Division is clear, however the league appears to have enough ammunition to fix this issue if it desires.

Perhaps they just need to toughen up and make some decisions according to their own rules and not be persuaded by an Association's smoke and mirrors when they make their application to enter Champs?

Regardless of the fact that mistakes are made, it seems less likely that the system is broken, it could be that the more likely scenario is that the Big V is not applying its own rules accordingly.

Big V By-Laws
Appendix 9 Promotion and Relegation
Promotion and Relegation systems will be operated in all Big V Competitions (non-ABA Divisions) according to the following:

Promotion and Relegation

Where the league is played in more than one division the following promotion/relegation principles will be adopted:

• Teams should play in Divisions in which they are competitive both on and off court.

• Divisions are not governed by numbers – that is, there are no limits on the number of teams that should be in each division, rather, the size of each division is flexible to cope with those teams that have the capacity to compete in those Divisions.

• Where appropriate, the Executive will rule on a year to year basis the best means of operating the competition within a Division, including home and away games break-up, use of conferences and other variables.

Promotion of Teams

Promotion of teams will be on the basis of a formal application.

1. By the end of July each year the General Manager of the league will call for expressions of interest from those teams interested in competing in a higher division in the following season.

2. Clubs wishing to compete will then submit an expression of interest by the date set by the General Manager..

3. An executive sub-committee of three (including the General Manager) will review each applicant and seek input and provide feedback on the following areas:
– playing strength, current and proposed
– Game promotion
– Administration (club to office)
– Ability to meet financial commitments

4. After interview, each applicant will then be required to submit a proposal for promotion, based on feedback received.
5. The executive sub-committee will review each proposal and make a recommendation to the General Manager of the Big V.

6. The Executive Committee will be empowered to decide on which teams will be accepted for promotion – these will be informed prior to the annual general meeting of the league and an announcement of same made at the AGM.


Relegation

Relegation will be on the basis of formal application or on the recommendation of the Executive.

1. A team may apply for relegation based on its own assumptions about future playing strength, financial capacity or other reasons.

2. The Executive may decide to relegate a team based on failure to meet the league guidelines as set out in section 1.2 of these by-laws,

3. In all cases, an executive sub-committee of three (including the General Manager) will review all teams performance and, in consultation with the teams, make recommendations to the Executive Committee on teams that should be relegated.

4. The Executive Committee will be empowered to decide on which teams will be relegated – these will be informed prior to the annual general meeting of the league and an announcement of same made at the AGM.

What is the real problem here?

Can players improve playing in the League?
Lack of talent from the VJBL coming through?
Getting one or two imports? Or none?
Or trying to grow a club that the local community is committed too and juniors want to aspire too?

People like to have a look at the smaller clubs, but look at the stronger SCM's teams too. The Sherbrooke VJBL teams were listed. What about Corio and Ringwood. Where are their teams in VJBL world.

Can more money buy wins and premierships? What is the long term planning of BigV clubs and their VJBL junior teams. Are they really interested in developing their own talent?

If you have relegation in the BigV you are more than likely going to lose your better players who just want to play in SCM and SCW. Just like you have when better players leave smaller VJBL Clubs to play VC and bigger clubs.

Younger VJBL players need to see a pathway for them to be able to play senior ball at their club, so do the coaches!!

Talent needs to be nurtured.