Hoops

Damian Martin suspected broken jaw and concussion

Nice video from Damo.

I'm still booing Conklin though! :p

This backs up my point on Damo

https://www.facebook.com/wildcats/videos/10153753886944314/

Luuc, what can I say... I am a bit of a dreamer. Look I boo the opponents as much as the next person as a part of the red army. I just think that with an act of what I feel was not deliberate does not warrant the bad taste it's leaving. Damian Martin is my favourite cats player, so I'm gutted that he is in the situation he is. But if he (the one who is personally effected by the broken jaw) can move past it, so can I. If you had the pleasure of listening to him yesterday on the radio, you probably would feel the same way too. The guy places no blame or anger towards Conklin. If that's the lead out wildcats captain is giving, we in the red army should follow suit!
If on the other hand I see dirty play tonite in either team, I'll call it for what it is and react accordingly. That is make comments and the odd boo both for and against my wildcats. Yes I'm a one-eyed fan, but like I said on previous post, I see the good and bad in the wildcats. Maybe it's time some others do to, not only in regards to the wildcats but their own teams too!

I take no issue with anything Perth Fan said, but I think that he/she is dreaming expecting the red army not to boo Conklin.

Hello, this is a Perth basketball crowd. We will boo anything! We boo correct decisions from refs, we'll boo opponents who get fired up even if they were obviously provoked, I could go on ... the point being, it's all part of the gladiatorial experience of being in the jungle.
I'm certainly planning to boo him,
Do I think he broke Damo's jaw on purpose? No I don't. But it's still a more than sufficient excuse to anoint him public enemy #1 for the evening and create a little extra atmosphere ;)

It ain't that serious.

No mouthguard I've ever encountered would have made a meaningful difference against that particular location & severity of impact IMO.

@Perth Fan - Could't agree with you more.

i feel for martin however will say this, gleeson is angry over the treatment yet his charges do dirty stuff on the court. will never forget the stray forearm redhage gave that got nothing. only for gleeson to say he didnt see anything and he is a fair player.

I would like to ask a question, and I'm not being a troll, if Conklin plays and is injured by Jawai would there be a case for criminal prosecution for assault?

Could the action be considered premeditated given Gleason's actions?

Damo is all class and the ultimate professional. Massive respect to him. I think he would be the first guy angry/disappointed at what Hire/Gleeson said.

Extremely unprofessional post match press conference by Hire and Gleeson.

Gleeson's is borderline defamatory and calling for vengence is totally stupid.

Hire's is also borderline defamatory putting forth the idea that the Crocs players were laughing at Marto. From memory, Norton went over and checked if he was OK and other Crocs showed concern.

People work their butts off to make this league what it is - and a lot of off season work has been done. What we don't need is amateur, emotionally jacked up coaches and players coming out and saying crap which IMO makes the NBL seem as if its some kind of High school league

Damian Martin was interviewed on 94.5fm as he was waiting for surgery this arvo. He is not angry with Conklin and says it was an unfortunate part of a tough play. He also confirmed that he had an apology from Conklin via text message today. Conklin didn't call as wasn't sure if Damo could speak on phone. Damo also reiterated that Brian is a good guy and he holds no grudge about it.

Maybe both Perth and anti-Perth fans need to take a leaf out of Damo's book and get rid of the holding grudges shite! All teams have players on their team who play hard (and dirty). I am a one-eyed Perth fan who does see the negatives of the likes of Redhage, just as much as I see the negatives of a Wortho or Goulding.
I'm extremely disappointed in Gleeson's post match comments. Wish he had taken the higher ground. It's ok to be fired up about what happened but to threaten revenge is just bullshit.

I for one hope that Damo recovers well from this, not just from a basketball but a personal point of view. To have your jaw smashed like that and the type of surgery to get plates put in is not the greatest. I hope my fellow Red Army fans take the higher ground tomorrow and support the wildcats without dealing the crap towards the crocs. In other words, don't boo Conklin! Finally big time credit to Mitch Norton. Your concern for Damo was fantastic.

I'm happy with that action by the NBL.

@snooch - Tomato or BBQ :P

@Snooch - Where did you hear that ?

#471 : Watch it, I am a Cats member too mate lol :P
You can't hate people for backing their team though and being bias to a point. That's half of what being a supporter is haha.

You saw the same thing with the Childress/Wagstaff incident.

I like Perth and I like the Croc's too, I don't hate on any NBL team actually, I just don't like seeing this type of incident in the sport...

99% of Perth supporters will view it as Conklin being reckless/deliberate. 99% of Perth haters will see it as accidental or the Cats fault.

Coaches and players are always going to back their own players no matter what. People are bias. Too much hate going one here.

At the very least the incident should be reviewed by a panel of experts to determine weather the incident was reckless, deliberate or purely accidental.

The fact of the matter is that it was a hit to the head which resulted in a players broken jaw. It is unprofessional and negligent of the NBL if the incident is not reviewed.

Everyone here has their own opinions on how it should be perceived. Unfortunately, I doubt very much if anyone here is qualified or skilled enough to make that determination. Leave it to the experts and hopefully the NBL do something about it.

The Duty of Care

Anyone who has an official capacity to organise and manage sport programs and events has a duty to make such activities as safe as possible for anyone who participates. This duty is referred to, in the eyes of the law, as the "Duty of Care".

Persons in an official capacity include coaches, referees, coordinators, club administrators, grounds caretakers and owners of the sport facility.

Persons who participate include players, player supporters, spectators, coaches, referees and other officials such as time keepers and helpers.

Safe as possible means that efforts are made to:

Make checks prior to the sport activity to identify and remove hazards from the environment in which the activity takes place
Educate participants to undertake the activity safely as possible (this includes ensuring that participants know and understand the rules of the game and wearing protective clothing/equipment)
Supervise participants as they undertake sport activities particularly if they are children or have an infirmity.
Ensure that there are persons on hand who can respond appropriately to emergencies. This usually involves the provision training and the development of procedure.

The actions that sport managers and supervisors must take to make participation as safe as possible will depend, to some extent, on the participants themselves. The law tends to view that some people in society are owed a higher standard of Duty of Care as they are less able to look after themselves. This group includes children, persons with a disability, mentally ill, elderly and in some instances those who are pregnant.
Contemplation of Risks

The Duty of Care principle was established in the famous case of Donoghue and Stevenson, 1932. In the many interpretations of this and subsequent cases, it has become a generally accepted principle that anyone (or any business) that makes a product or offers a service must contemplate the safety of the users of that product or service. In effect, if there is a risk that the user of the product or service will sustain injury, illness or other harm, then the product or service should be withdrawn until the product or service is remedied.

If an individual or a business provides a product or service that they know to be unsafe, or recklessly fail to give any consideration of safety, then the individual or business runs the risk of a court action for NEGLIGENCE. Negligence occurs when there is a breach of the Duty of Care and someone is injured as a result.

See also Deaths in Sport
Performing the Duty of Care

Participation in sport is an inherently risky business and many injuries and even deaths do occur. Provided that sport managers have carried out their Duty of Care, then there is no redress for participants if they are injured in the pursuit of a normal sport activity. They can insure for this if they wish. It is only possible to take action in court if there is a breach of the Duty of Care and it is often the case that such a breach occurs when something has been missed or overlooked. For this reason, there is great pressure on all sport organisations to undertake RISK MANAGEMENT.

The following actions are typical of what needs to be undertaken by sports administrators to fulfil the Duty of Care:

Sport officials and coaches must be properly accredited
Sport facilities must be checked for safety and hazards removed prior to sport activity
Children and/or other vulnerable segments of the population should be supervised when they participate in sport activities.
Implements used in the pursuit of sport are in good working order
Sport participants are appropriately prepared for the sport activities they undertake. This includes health checks, fitness training, coaching and knowledge of rules.
Injured persons are withdrawn from participation as soon as the injury comes to light.
Behaviour that may increase the possibility of injury is discouraged and action taken against persistent perpetrators of inappropriate behaviour.

Establishing that a Duty of Care exists

If a person is injured through participation in sport or recreation and wishes to seek some form of compensation, then whether or not they succeed will depend on establishing three things:

That the person was owed a Duty of Care
That there was a breach of this Duty of Care
As a result an injury occurred

I can be swayed into believing that the incident is more accidental than it was straight out deliberate, however anyone in their right mind cannot argue that it wasn't reckless, by definition...

reckless
ˈrɛkləs/
adjective
adjective: reckless

1. heedless of danger or the consequences of one's actions; rash or impetuous.
"you mustn't be so reckless"
synonyms: rash, careless, thoughtless, incautious, heedless, unheeding, inattentive, hasty, overhasty, precipitate, precipitous, impetuous, impulsive, daredevil, devil-may-care, hot-headed.

deliberate
adjective
adjective: deliberate
dɪˈlɪb(ə)rət/

1. done consciously and intentionally.
"a deliberate attempt to provoke conflict"
synonyms: intentional, calculated, conscious, done on purpose, intended, planned, meant, considered, studied, knowing, wilful, wanton, purposeful, purposive, premeditated, pre-planned, thought out in advance, prearranged, preconceived, predetermined.

accidental
aksɪˈdɛnt(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: accidental

1. happening by chance, unintentionally, or unexpectedly.
"a verdict of accidental death"
synonyms: fortuitous, chance, occurring by chance/accident, adventitious, fluky, coincidental, casual, serendipitous, random, aleatory; More
unexpected, unforeseen, unanticipated, unlooked-for;
unintentional, unintended, inadvertent, involuntary, unplanned, unpremeditated, unthinking, unmeant;
unwitting, unknowing, unconscious, subconscious;
mistaken, misguided
"accidental damage"
antonyms: intentional, planned
2.
incidental; subsidiary.
"the location is accidental and contributes nothing to the poem"
synonyms: incidental, unimportant, by the way, by the by, supplementary, subsidiary, subordinate, secondary, marginal, minor, lesser, accessory, peripheral, tangential, extraneous, extrinsic, parenthetical, irrelevant, immaterial, beside the point, of little account, unnecessary, non-essential, inessential.

Just one comment on the 'slow motion' v 'real time' debate. Surely in an incident as serious as this, it takes time to clear the court and wipe the blood, so how is it not possible for the officials to call for a review of the incident and watch replays on video?

Did they do this and I missed it, or do they not have that capability in the NBL?

I was the only one blaming Hire, and it was really a tongue in cheek comment referring to the lead up to the elbow on Martin, how the refs allow that contact and let it get out of hand.

I was going to publicly apologise (well at least on this forum) to Hire but having read his comments about players laughing he can get stuffed. He is deluded, but I guess he's only brainwashed by his deluded coach.

Having had time to re-watch it all I now think it was deliberate.

Conklin clenched went from an open hand and clenched his fist. I'm also pretty sure he knew Damo was there.

Those 2 things make me think it was intended.

@Luuc, I take #338's post as a general comment at similar incidents and not directly related to this one. I agree, this incident isn't a referee's no-call issue, but in general I also agree with anon's post as I see it myself all the time...

(My post was in reply to Anon #338)

There might be some truth in that, but this incident is not the right example of it.
Refs did nothing wrong.
The initial portion of the play was neither a foul nor an attempt by a Perth player to foul, so calling a foul would have been wrong. Perth were trying to legally pressure and trap, which they did until Hire reached at the ball, got arm, and was whistled for it straight away.

My god, between six to twelve, that's our season right there because of Conklin's elbow...

Update from the Cats:

Perth Wildcats captain Damian Martin has suffered a severe broken jaw, after being struck in the final quarter of last night’s game against the Townsville Crocodiles.

Martin’s jaw is broken in two at the chin, with three teeth coming loose at the break-point.

The 31-year-old will undergo surgery upon his return to Perth in an attempt to save his teeth. Plates will be required to stabilise the jaw.

If the surgery is successful Damian Martin will miss six to eight weeks of basketball, however if there are co



http://www.wildcats.com.au/featured-news/damian-martin-breaks-jaw/

The next game between these two teams I expect quite a few early calls by the officials. Whether that has any impact or whether anything happens that is deemed vengeful is all speculation, but it sure does bring this game into one of the most anticipated so far...

#TOOHARDBALL

I have no idea why Hire is being blamed for this. And I don't even think it's right to blame the refs either.
The Cats were pressing at that stage of the game. Hire's D was initially just fine. Then as soon as he reached in, he was whistled for the foul. That's exactly what should have happened IMO.

"please provide supporting evidence to this type of behaviour. "

Redhage's and to a certain extent Perth's reputation is well known to all players and commentators in the league.

Last year a couple of fights with Adelaide and NZ, the Childress incident, all involve Perth. Too often to just be coincidental. (I'm not saying the way Childress reacted was in any way correct, but what brought on that reaction). What makes players from other teams react this way?

Whether the Damo incident was accidental or not is debatable, but for a coach to come out and announce "an eye for an eye", is another act of aggression. Proof of this culture is right there from the Coach's mouth.

I believe the incident was unfortunate, to say the least, however if it wasn't reckless and it was in fact accidental how does Conklin's body language immediately afterwards suggest anything other than a careless attitude towards his actions?

Watching the incident, seeing it live and looking at it in context I can only come to the conclusion that while it may not have been intended at the time, it was absolutely without care and reckless...

By definition, this is the only conclusion IMO.

Geez. Fox Sports are really trying to push the whole 'deliberate and intentional' angle judging by their latest FB post. Unfortunately, people have bit the bait.

Wildcats coach Trevor Gleeson, who said Martin also suffered concussion, also took aim at Conklin.

“That’s one of the dirtiest plays I’ve ever seen, Conklin just dropped his elbow right on his jaw and he (Martin) is going to hospital for a suspected fractured jaw and has lost a couple of teeth,” he said. “It’s a dirty play without a question.”

This guy is kidding right?? Not sure Conklin had any time to react to "drop his elbow" given the speed this whole incident happened. Would be very disappointed in the NBL buys into this BS from Gleeson.

Anyone remember this play for last season? Dirtiest play I've ever seen in Basketball, ironic is was from a Perth player!

https://youtu.be/8UWTsVM0TGM

There's some pics of Damos face afterwards on this article. Definitely missing some teeth.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/29998601/wildcats-townsville-nbl/

I don't know much about injuries but wouldn't Damos face be a bit swollen if he had a broken jaw ?

Perth are claiming the Crocs players were laughing about Damo being hit.

“That’s b***shit to see your leader out there on the floor like that and then guys laughing afterwards as well. That’s crap,” Perth forward Greg Hire said post-game.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/basketball/brian-conklin-elbows-damian-martin-suspected-broken-jaw-in-townsville-v-perth-nbl-clash/story-fndkzqrr-1227596762522

For some reason, it seems like a lot of teams get into fights/aggressive plays with Perth.
Damo is one of the fairest players, and definitely does not deserve this. But Perth are well known for the aggressive elbows, shoulders, flops and dirty plays, especially Redhage.

Does anyone know how long Damo would be out if he has a broken jaw.

Don't know why anyone is blaming Hire if you want to throw the blame around outside Conklin and the incident blame the refs. It's their job to keep the game and players in check. They allowed the game to be played hard and physical. They should of pulled the play up before the incident got to that point.

Not bias here, so my opinion is going to be based on what I observed and how it looked in context to the game.

Firstly, having seen similar actions in the NBA, they always look at replays to determine severity and whether or not the incident warrants further immediate action on court, why this doesn't occur in the NBL bemuses me.

Secondly, the incident was during a pressured time in the game when the Wildcats were looking to double and trap to cause a turnover, therefore Conklin was trying to hold possession and was ripping the ball.

Martin was third man in and in a slightly awkward spot for a split second, he always tries to get a steal and plays it hard, but being the smaller man and in this situation duty of care may be on Conklin.

Now the words 'duty of care' come into consideration...

Conklin's next action appears careless and reckless, possibly not intentional, but his immediate reaction after the contact suggests it is highly probably that he didn't care to show any care or remorse for the contact.

Now, he is a tough guy and the NBL pretends the league is a tough league with all this HARDBALL stuff we are being fed, but the result of this contact and in the context of the game, the NBL must have a look at this incident and show some balls to let it be known such reckless acts are not tolerated, IMHO...

Agree 100% with anon #230. Hire is to blame for this as much as Conklin.

Was maybe intentional, maybe not. Too hard to tell. I am leaning towards it being unintentional. It's a tough one. Did he intend to knock Damo out and break his jaw? No.
Did he intend to actually elbow Damo? Possibly not.
Did he intend NOT to get his elbow out of the way being careless as to the result? Possibly yes.

In any event, the "flailing" of the arms business needs to stop. Conklin does it way too often and its ridiculous.

The more I look at it, the more accidental it looks. Honestly don't think anything should come of it.

Thats a really good point Dazz, League must be worried about retaliation, especially after hearing Gleeson's comments. Sitting for a game must be a high probability.

I think Conklin was clearly reckless and obviously dangerous. I thought he seemed "angry" the entire Game. I can't say for sure if he meant to hit Damo, I sure as hell hope he didn't.

He has done the arm flail a few times now, perhaps it is appropriate to punish him. 1 Game, maybe 2 would work in my mind.

I sincerely hope Damo is not seriously injured, he's a legend of a guy and one of the NBL's best ambassadors. He does not deserve this.

Gleeson was quite "off the script" with his comments. We all know I love a good Wildcats bash but I'd give the man the benefit of the doubt on this one. He just saw his Captain carried off the court to the hospital. Only way I'd change my mind is if he doubled down on comments tomorrow or pre-game.

If Conklin did it deliberately then suspend him, if it was an accident I'm sure Damo would not want someone seeking vengeance. Having said that, I think a nice, legal screen may help Conklin out of his silly habits.

If he wants to react and get fired up that's fine.
Throwing his own player under the bus over it is a different matter altogether, especially a player who is 4000km away and had no involvement in any of this. That is really messed up IMO.
How do you feel, Nate, having your own opinions pre-empted and learning that you're now a hitman rather than a basketballer.

I think it was definitely intentional. Call me biased, one-eyed, whatever but I'm 100% confident if Martin did the same thing to Conklin I'd feel the same way.

But Gleeson shouldn't be saying stuff like that, its unprofessional. I get it, he's heated - i was heated ive only just calmed down - but still cant be doing that. Conklin probably missing Friday night anyway.

Gleeson seriously needs to STFU about what Jawai may or may not be feeling or preparing to do.