Hoops

Big V Predictions

Gotta chime in on the above BS because it is just that. Our list is locked away and we are focused on the 2017 season.

We have and open session tonight with players from a number of associations of different levels taking part for scrimmage purposes.

Good luck to Keysborough and the other sides. Hopefully they all have successful seasons.

Although I already know who you are, (gotta remember to hide that ip) please enlighten everyone Hydra and put your real name to your post. You're well aware that I am easily contacted and we can chat about this anytime you feel the need.

Cheers Craig,

Chelsea coach

Keysborough have had a coach for a while now. Just didn't make it public.

If the Keysborough players wanted to keep in shape perhaps they can go to the Keysborough session tonight instead of the Chelsea one.

No need to go down that path again. Both clubs need to let bygones be bygones

^^^ Here we go again, must be quiet times down at Keysborough I guess. From looking on there FB page it is an open Gym with player attending from a number of places.

Word from the coach is the team is already picked, perhaps Keysboroughs players wanted to stay in shape till their club find a coach willing to coah their side.

Don't start that crap again.

Corio Bay Stingrays will be looking for a new head coach for their Champ men's next season, Mark Leader taking a break from the game after doing a great job getting them one 'ship and a runners up.

It's amazing how much the result of one game (or a 3 game series) can have on whether an association is a complete shemozzle or not.

Surely there will be plenty more people and players for the Casey "Rangers" to recruit going forward.

Casey men program a shambles! no coach and players walked out. At least the women can win a title.

Back to D2 for them

I think Casey have applied to go up to SCM in previous years and been knocked back.

I reckon 12 teams is the right number, and I can't imagine Whittlesea or Hawthorn being happy to go down to make room for Casey.

Surely Casey don`t get a second free promotion after not earning the righ to go up? Free ride to D1 with and then again to State Champ??? EARN IT!!

Only Casey team getting a promotion would be their women's team. At least they win a grand final.

Out of all of the teams in D1M, Casey are the most suited to go up.

Give Melton a second import and they would have more than competed in SCM this year.

Does Sobey count as a restricted player also?

I assume Casey will also apply, possible Melton? There'd need to be more than just Bulleen coming down to accommodate too many in SCM...

Which other Div 1 teams have applied to go up ??

From what I have seen of Warrnambool this year they would need 2 very strong imports if Sobey is not around for them next season to compete in SCM.

If Sobey returns and they have the budget to recruit 2 decent imports as well then they will compete but depth of talent will be an issue.

They will need bigger bodies in SCM to fill out their roster.

Rumour has it that there are a few other clubs that will apply to go up. Only the champions are guaranteed but others can put forward a case

Doe anyone have a view on Warnambool coming up to SCM after winning D1M? I saw a couple of Div 1 games this season but didn't see Warnambool. Seems they were pretty reliant on Sobey and their import. Be interesting to see how this goes in SCM?

BIG V Entry fees for 2016 as per below

SCM - $8,500
SCW - $7,500
D1M - $6,600
D1W - $5,900
D2M - $6,400
D2W - $5,700
VYCM - $4,900
VYCW - $4,200
YL1M - $4,700
YL1W - $4,000
Yl2M - $4,700
YL2W - $4,000

So what is the cost to enter a team in the Big V? How much is a SCM/W team compared with D1 or D2 or YL, does anyone know? Nothing to indicate costs appears on the application forms or the By-Laws! I know it costs some Associations anywhere from $30-$50K for a team with imports, but what is the actual entry cost anyone know?

Based on their Youth league and who else @BB, that's interesting?

Already talk that Sherbrooke will be attempting to come into D1M

Well, the season is over and 2017 applications for new and existing Big V participating Associations are already open.

Entries close 14th September, which means everyone has very little time to take a breath before getting their applications completed and making the big decisions they need to play next season.

I am sure most Associations have well and truly considered their options already and of course the sooner the Big V can get these applications in the sooner they can start next season's organising.

Who goes up, who goes down and who comes in is always an interesting talking point, probably another thread to start...

Well done to those winners and everyone who made the final, not too many surprises in the senior competition, but certainly some interesting results!

Great to see two men's teams in d2 playing off without imports!

Ringwood men got off to a flyer. Stingrays looked confused and unsure of themselves early and couldn't recover. They gave it a run early in the last quarter but the Hawks once again hit key long bombs that Corio Bay just couldn't match.

Great win by Ringwood again, shot the lights out early and maintained the lead throughout.

Upset Casey fan?

D2W final was a joke as well. More so resembling a wrestling match, then that of a baskletball game.

Having been around the game for so long I really can not fathom why an appraoch of call nothing has been adopted now in the finals.

Arguing with those in Grey who don`t know what they are doing has becomg all to common.

D1M looks like Warrnambool and D1W will be Sunbury.

SCW will be Hume and SCM looks like Ringwood.

D2M Coburg have a shot and D2W Melb Uni will win.

Injury worries for Corio, they could be cooked.

Ringwood men shot the lights out, also got plenty of friendly calls at the right time too. If the ref's can see it both ways the series should come down to game three on Sunday. Ringwood women are no chance, the Hume City girls from Broady are just too good and will win it on two.

Ringwood got up by 25...thought they might get game 1 but not by that much!

Tips for the weekends games?

Big V structure is a topic in itself, but here is what it could look like.

SCM / SCW - 10 teams 19 rounds with extended finals

D1M / D1W - 10 teams 19 rounds with extended finals

D2M / D2W - Two conferences to cater for all the rest where needed

VYCM / VYCW - Stay as it is with two conferences of 8 teams in each with extended finals

YL1M / YL1W - 10 teams 19 rounds with extended finals

YL2M / YL2W - Cater for all the rest, make two conferences if needed

All elimination or quarter-finals a one off game
All semi-finals best of three games in 1-2 format
All grand-finals best of three games in 1-2 format

Seriously the top and bottom convo is a waste of time. Every division bot men and womens is the same. the top 4 are well and truly above the others. Few exceptions the 5-6 come into play. But compared to the bottom for they always seem to hand our big ass whoopings an they always will.

#597159

I hope you are not the same anon as above who said the top 3-4 of D2 were considerably better than half of D1. If you are you seem to be changing your tune.

You can't just fix D1. You have to fix the structure. If you have to, then cut SCM to 9-10 teams, and cull four out of the bottom of D1. But the league has problems throughout its structure, not just in the middle.

The gap between the top few of D1 and the bottom few in D1 was crazy.

Something needs to be done, but that requires the league making some tough decisions and staying strong about it!

The more certainty there is about the structure of the competition, the more clubs can plan what their objectives are and what their expenditure should be (in theory).

I don't mind decreasing the number of teams either, as long as the draw is fair and even. 22 games seems a good amount and is a good fit with 12 teams in each division, although it'll probably fluctuate a bit in Div 2 (I think Oakleigh are out next season?)

True, but there are so many double headers in a season now that I think decreasing the number of teams will not adversely affect the draw either.

It is more about the level of competitiveness.

Also, I am not sure what it costs to enter a D2M team compared with that of D1 or SCM, I do know about how much it costs for a SCM team, but it probably isn't the same everywhere!

Competitiveness and being able to maintain a standard of venue while making it sustainable for this to be achieved (an Association to be able to continue to do it all without going broke) is where I am coming from I guess...

If the costs are the same across all divisions (I doubt it very much), then it doesn't matter, but I think this is sometimes overlooked.

Bear, I'm of a similar view to you I think. One interesting thing this season is that in SCM there was 22 games, so you play the other 11 teams twice each and have a fair draw.

Div 1 also played 22 games, however with 15 teams it can't be an even draw. Two conferences is a way to deal with this, although not my own preference.

So, going to SCM - 12 teams, Div 1 - 12 teams, and Div 2 - whatever is leftover makes a bit of sense to me..

Same could be said for the women's Big V competition:

SCW - cull 12 teams down to 10 (Whittlesea and Melb Uni down to D1W), makes it much more elite.

D1W - Drop three teams (with the two coming in from champs), makes it a 10 team comp as well.

D2W - At the moment it would go from 8 to 11 teams doing this and easily cater for growth, like maybe a Corio Bay team coming in and they go to 12 teams.

The league's by-laws are there to be interpreted for the best outcomes and to create what is best for the league and for basketball I imagine, using some common sense and obviously adopting the promotion/relegation process where suitable.

At this stage in the men's we have:

SCM - 12 teams with Bulleen (one win in 22 rounds) clearly struggling, then Whittlesea (three wins) and Hawthorn (four wins).

One could argue that this division would be far more competitive with 10 teams, but I would not go bigger than the current number.

D1M - 15 teams with Camberwell last (two wins from 22 games), then (on five wins each) Warrandyte and Melb Uni.

Yes, a case could be made to introducing an additional team and going to two conferences of 8 teams each, but 16 teams in the middle tier is a lot of teams too. Could it be better served by dropping three teams and toughening up the competition?

D2M - 10 teams and the list isn't bad, but I think here is where it should be fattened up, seems like the whole thing is a little top heavy to me...

If we are to make two conferences with 8-10 teams in each or whatever, it could be done here, but at least this is where there could be more teams, so the upper levels are of a higher quality, just a thought?

Hence my use of "committed". I've read them. I wouldn't have thought promotion with no relegation was the intention just because one team had injuries.

Anyways I'm not arguing about what may or may not happen, simply stating my opinion that it's a bad look for a team that goes 2-20 to stay up because they think they're good enough to.

"Who makes way for Western Port then JT?"
D1M will be back to 2x 8 team conferences.

to answer "spot up"
"the league have finally "committed" to proper promotion/relegation " - I think you'll find they have committed to promotion, not relegation is at discretion of the league. Read the by-laws

Purely an outsiders opinion but it's a shocking look for the league if Camberwell stay up. They won 2 games out of 20, the league have finally "committed" to proper promotion/relegation and Camberwell are going to argue to stay up because they think they had extenuating circumstances? Every team has injuries..

Who makes way for Western Port then JT?

Was talking to a few people from Camberwell and they are almost certain to stay in D1M

I am pretty sure it's just the travel issue that has made things the way they are, and why the league doesn't prefer the 1-1-1 system.

Some good points Anon, thanks for the insight. Especially the idea that the higher ranked team should they get the win can celebrate at home, it makes more sense of the 1-2 system.

I can see the benefits of it, probably more important is the case in point about the travel if two teams are 7 hours apart, but I think a quick plane ride would sort that out.

Either way the current system of three semi finals and three finals is a good one, I would just like to see it uniform across all Divisions to make it easier to follow...

The preference for a 1-1-1 format in any best of 3 final series has been raised several times in this thread, but is it really practical or better than what's currently used?

Remember this is a statewide competition and so it is just not practical to complete the 1-1-1 format over two weekends - imagine travelling from Mildura after a Saturday night Game 2 to play a deciding Game 3 at Latrobe City on Sunday afternoon - and so the finals would have to be extended by potentially two weeks to allow for the 3 game series in both semi and grand finals.

While playing Game 1 away for the home team is a disadvantage for the higher ranked team, the current format ensures the higher ranked team will celebrate a series win on their home court, if they win. Whereas for the 1-1-1 format if the higher ranked team sweeps the series in two games, the win will be at an away venue.

So, here we go, it is grand final week for the State Champs, D1 and D2 while the remaining Youth League has been decided. Here is my take on the results and my preview of the exciting games ahead.

YL1M – While the final was a one and done affair, the favourite all season in this division was Altona and at home the Gators hung on to take the title over a competitive Whittlesea. It will be interesting to see if they move up to Championships and replace Keilor next season.

YL1W – Also a one off final after only one semi-final (so confusing), Altona made it two from two with the girls getting up over Werribee Sunday afternoon. They will probably now replace Geelong in the Championship with the Supercats only winning two games this season.

YL2M – In what can only be described as a boil over, the Corio Bay men went into the Breakers home court and took them over in a strong second half defensive effort. Mornington were the raging favourites all season and the Stingrays now have an opportunity to replace Keysborough in YL1.

SCM – As has been posted the Corio Bay men turned it on at home in games two and three to get over Eltham while Ringwood coasted to win through in two games over Waverley, both will play off again in a repeat of the final from a few years ago. It will be a tough series with Ringwood home in game one and capable of winning away as they proved in the past, but my heart says another Stingrays championship is headed down the highway to Geelong’s Corio Bay.

SCW – Hume women rolled into the final winning two games and will also meet Ringwood who just got Knox in three tight ones. You have to think Hume are favoured here, but if Ringwood can get their first home final they can apply pressure in the next two.

D1M – In a slight surprise it is Warrnambool v Casey in this final series, Casey at home first, but I think the Seahawks will overcome them to win the series in two and make a case for Championship promotion at the expense of Bulleen who really struggled. Warrnambool are talented and while Blackburn were probably stunned to lose to Casey, Warrnambool are likely also just as capable of playing up a Division.

D1W – All the signs and all the form says Sunbury will defeat Geelong, but you just never know. If the Jest have all of their super star imports available they probably deserve top billing, for the Supercats it will be down to earth, blue collar, hard nose basketball. If Geelong can get game one at home they are a chance, but they had to sneak past Latrobe and it wasn’t easy, so Sunbury for the win.

D2M – Western Port have been the form team, Coburg meet them after having to do it the hard way and I think they may just fall short, but they have surprised me a little, so if the Giants can get that crucial first up home win they could create an upset. If not, the Port will get it in two and I’m not sure how Camberwell can avoid relegation if the winner here wants to go up.

D2W – Melbourne University is a warm favourite here, Casey has snuck into the final on close wins but the ‘U’ has been very competent and may get this in two. They should go up to replace Craigieburn women in D1 next season, but Werribee had the same record, so who knows.

I think the finals format is interesting, best of three games is great but 1-1-1 would be better than the lower team having game one at home to start, it kind of doesn’t give the higher ranked team what it deserved IMHO, we will see…

There is meant to be automatic promotion/relegation this season. I think there's still an option for teams to apply to change divisions if they can justify it, do there's a bit of discretion.

It'd be good if this was only used in absolutely exceptional circumstances in my opinion, but we'll see what happens I guess.