Hoops

Bogut V Cambage - bad blood?

Liz is well on her way to becoming the female version of Heritier Lumumba.

I don't think "better late than never" is all that sarcastic. She obviously though it was an actual apology, like the other people involved who shared it and so on

I dont condone much of what she has done in the past or even this SMH article but Bogut is entirely in the wrong here.

Well that escalated quickly.....to no one's surprise..


http://www.smh.com.au/sport/olympics/rio-2016/cambage-to-ask-bogut-what-is-your-issue-with-me-20160729-gqgzdk.html

"Better late than never" was a sarcastic response to a sarcastic apology. These reports all seem to miss the part.

Neither of them help their cause with their tweets though. That's what made that recent exchange so cringeworthy to me - they both came out of it looking sillier IMO.

Just read the article. In what world is "better late than never" a way of educating somebody on anything? What world does she live in? Playing the victim and using media to get behind it.

She's gonna have to ask a lot of other players too then, not just the one who's got enough balls to call her out in public, but I guess only she's allowed to publicly call people out and can't ever be on the receiving end

"Elizabeth Cambage will confront fellow basketball star Andrew Bogut at the Olympics – and has told Fairfax Media she suspects he harbours some kind of issue with her – after an online spat that revisited the Opal's commitment to national duties."

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/olympics/rio-2016/cambage-to-ask-bogut-what-is-your-issue-with-me-20160729-gqgzdk.html

"Now, let's please talk about basketball. This rhetoric really doesn't belong on here :)"

This thread really isn't about basketball anyway.

Another way to use stats to make a point (or miss it entirely) is the number of blacks who are arrested for petty crimes (eg low level drug use/dealing) which can lead to resisting arrest/being shot at, however the number of whites using/selling drugs at a low level is higher. The fact they are targeted speaks to the ongoing issues about how blacks are treated by the police.

The percentage of each total yes, the rate no. Getting the calculator out, black-on-black homicide happens at around nine times the rate of white-on-white in the USA (18 per 100K compared to 2.1 per 100K).

That's where BLM should be at its most relevant, however as I said in my post above, the murder of innocent civilians by authorities is also a massive concern, the publicly recorded incidents in the USA all seem to be black people and that is why the BLM movement has so much support.

ME is right when he says the stats show police shootings per race in the USA roughly correlate with violent crimes committed and arrests made, however this isn't about overall stats, this is about a series of individual shootings which just aren't right.

84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks.

The point is, crime is bad, regardless. We all agree on that.

Only one side, however, agrees that oppression is bad. The conservatives want small government, but are ok with the government murdering people... cool

"The rate a black person shoots a fellow black person is almost identical to the rate a white person shoots a fellow white person."

If you're talking about the USA, the rate of black-on-black murder is roughly 8x more common than white-on-white murder.

Ok, ME. Here we go.

Black on black crime is an issue, sure. But so is white on white crime. The rate a black person shoots a fellow black person is almost identical to the rate a white person shoots a fellow white person. Citizens shooting citizens is an issue, it's territorial, and we should work to fix it. But, that's a separate issue.

Police shooting individuals, unlawfully - and disproportionately black people - is not just crime; it's oppression. Unfortunately, there will always be murder, and it's always bad: whether it's a black person, white person, Asian, Hispanis, police officer, or coffee vendor being shot. It's bad.

Black people just don't want the government to murder them at a disproportional rate. That's the issue here, ME.

Now, let's please talk about basketball. This rhetoric really doesn't belong on here :)

ME, while it's true on purely a statistical basis BLM appears misdirected, it's not based on stats, it's based on incidents that have happened, been recorded, and shown police with blatant disregard towards black lives.

Now, given the stats it's quite possible this also happens to white victims of police shootings and we don't know about it, but with the lack of public evidence that is not the perception, and perception is very important in people's minds.

There is no doubt sad irony in the BLM campaign, with the black murder rate at a staggering 19/100K in the USA, and over 90% of those intraracial. It's a damning stat and shows that is where there is the lowest level of care for black lives.

However, outrage at killings by authority will always be far higher than those by the general public, and so it should be.

They are given the job of protecting the populace and while their job is dangerous, in some of these instances they weren't in danger and effectively murdered innocent people.

But didn't she give a reason to the public, and now she's going to retract that and say she lied, then say we should believe her new reason? Then she will get supper bitter when everyone calls her out for lying.

"As for her "ask BA" comment, she already has came out and said the reason was due to them not being pleased with her having prior employment as a result of not being told they didn't have dates secured or something? Or is she saying that what she told everyone is a lie and she didn't tell the truth?"

Sure does sound like she's suggesting the real reason was not the reason released to the public...

Not going to bother explaining the aspects of socio economics, government policies, and more to you ME, as you're obviously a complete muppet as you've shown via your comments. Also, there is nothing debatable about the BLM movements necessity in America and the way police do their jobs, especially in majority black communities. I'd explain some first hand experiences, but you'd just create some excuse.


Kobe, I'm not saying she can't. I'm saying she should think smarter about how she goes about it. Would you rather get your message to 28k or 100k? It's called social media marketing, and marketing in general really. She should maybe talk to Patty about how he tackles the issues and addresses them, and subsequently has far more luck with it. Obviously though, that would require her taking some advice from somebody that isn't herself.

As for her "ask BA" comment, she already has came out and said the reason was due to them not being pleased with her having prior employment as a result of not being told they didn't have dates secured or something? Or is she saying that what she told everyone is a lie and she didn't tell the truth?

When she's taken a break, exiled herself from her national team, and subsequently a lot of professional organisations, will she have the reach to the population she currently and could have? Probably not. Then her words will be even less useful to any possible cause she will want to back. What a muppet

I'm more interested in her little 'Ask BA why I really sat out last year' tidbit. Does she really think there's a broader BA conspiracy to silence her voice, rather than the mere issue of Lizzie skipping camp to attend a festival?

She's taking a break from the sport after the Olympics. Her Chinese team has already signed another foreign player in her place. I reckon we have about a month before Lizzie goes off on a rant, social media or otherwise, about BA.

So centuries of oppression is their excuse for shooting eachother at rates that are the envy of many warzones?

There have been justification for at least some of the police shootings that BLM moans about.

Michael Brown, for instance, was shot for lunging a cop because the shooter said he lunged at him.

Are you assuming a conspiracy to incarcerate black people for crimes they didn't commit?

Calling for death of cops, the snipering incident.

"Yes, and obviously centuries of oppression have absolutely nothing to do with that whatsoever."

So centuries of oppression is their excuse for shooting eachother at rates that are the envy of many warzones?

"Couldn't possible be the police's tendency to actually make sure there's justification before shooting white people, could it? No, must be some massive media conspiracy instead, that makes much more sense."

There have been justification for at least some of the police shootings that BLM moans about. Michael Brown, for instance, was shot for lunging a cop. I suppose he has centuries of oppression to blame for that, though?

" Simply put, blacks account for 53% of violent criminals people convicted of violent crimes in the United States

Fixed that for you."

Are you assuming a conspiracy to incarcerate black people for crimes they didn't commit? Maybe look back at the rates that blacks are killing themselves and eachother and consider it again.

" BLM might as well be a domestic terrorism organization.

Yes, a touch under 33% of the BLM movement is a domestic terrorism organisation.

In that it's mostly domestic, but neither terrorism nor an organisation."

Calling for death of cops, the snipering incident. Sure, it isn't a set organization but there is a certain amount of "by any means necessary" about the group that should be a concern, and would be instantly denounced if they were white.

Her following is about 28k I believe. She should be getting far more, but she overloads her Twitter with her thoughts.

Regardless it should be All lives matter.

Cambage should focus on her Olympics challenge and not even be on a social network tweeting such crap as how many days she has left to be a "good girl" these athletes are supposed to be role models the younger generation can look up too,

"I feel like the whole of Australia should be ashamed for what happened with Adam Goodes" The whole of Oz ehh.. Liz, including those of us who supported him totally, including all of us in the indigenous community ?

Simply put, blacks account for 53% of violent criminals people convicted of violent crimes in the United States

You also might want to consider why the whites who are shot never seem to make the news despite government stats showing that there are twice as many cases of them.

If black lives truly mattered to Black Lives Matter they'd work on changing the fact that the most common cause of death for African Americans aged 15-40 is homicide, and the vast majority of those homicides are black on black.

Resisting arrest, resisting arrest, and oh... resisting arrest.

Police work is life or death.

What if the public IS part of the problem? They can never be called out because people won't like it?

BLM might as well be a domestic terrorism organization.

that is not a racial consideration when it happens to twice as many whites.

Can you talk all this shit on reddiit or a site that isn't for discussing how much of a beast Thon "old man" maker is gonna be

None of those cases I mentioned involved anyone reaching for a gun. Its not a matter of the police dealing with more black criminals, it is a matter of them being killed for crimes like Driving While Black.

Not just that but as soon as the cops fuck up, they go in to damage control in order to save the skin of their fellow officers. They release the priors for the victim to the media so they can create the "well he wasn't exactly an angel" narrative, which people lap up.

If, and that's a big if, the incident results in charges against the police, then there is decades of history of the justice system letting the black victims and their families down time and time again.

If you have just looked at stats and decided there is no issue, you are completely ignorant to their cause.

"What has violent crime got to do with anything when a number of the recent high profile cases do not involve a black person committing anything close to a violent crime? Selling loose cigarettes, having a busted tail light, running away from a cop, or lying on the ground with your hands in the air, are not reasons to shoot them but that's what happened. "

Resisting arrest, resisting arrest, and oh... resisting arrest. Police work is life or death. They don't have the time to figure out whether or not you are going to quickdraw a gun. A few of those cases there is evidence to suggest the victim was reaching for a gun. I am not saying these things are justified or that the shootings should have happened, but it does not happen disproportionately to blacks rather than whites when police have to deal with blacks more as I've outlined.

""When you're tell the public they are part of the problem, they will not like you."

What if the public IS part of the problem? They can never be called out because people won't like it?"

In the case of Black Lives Matter, it is debatable if the problem is even what she thinks it is. The problem certainly is not disproportionate slaying of black people when all things are considered. The problem might be heavy handed police who are reckless, but that is not a racial consideration when it happens to twice as many whites. BLM might as well be a domestic terrorism organization. They shut down public functions to spout their nonsense to people who aren't even involved in their "problem" (eg a gay pride rally) and they call for the death of cops, and hypocritically celebrate the death of a black cop, whose life suddenly doesn't matter. It is yet another 2016 victimhood movement that has been fueled by bias media propaganda.

As soon as you show people the facts on it, they start to lose their minds.

"ME, you look like a moron quoting the stats. You might want to get a better understanding of the matter before commenting further."

So stats are wrong, Liz Cambage's "blame all white people" inference is correct?

"ME, you provide those stats and tell us what they mean. Can guarantee you have already misinterpreted them. "

Simply put, blacks account for 53% of violent criminals in the United States, and whites are shot by police, unarmed and otherwise, almost twice as much. You can search that up and find out for yourself. When you consider how often they're involved in violent crime, you can see how black people are shot at rates disproportionate to the 13 percent of the population that they are - look up crimes by race and find just how many criminal facets they dominate. You also might want to consider why the whites who are shot never seem to make the news despite government stats showing that there are twice as many cases of them. But oh, sorry, I had better find some convoluted reason to blame whitey for police being more involved with black people, who cause disproportionately more crime and live in communities that are heavily more violent. Oh, I know - Slavery.

Black lives matter is a farce. If black lives truly mattered to Black Lives Matter they'd work on changing the fact that the most common cause of death for African Americans aged 15-40 is homicide, and the vast majority of those homicides are black on black.

Please enlighten me as to what I have misinterpreted? Maybe do as I suggested and look at the statistics.

"I just can't wait for the day to be counted down. I hope she says she never plays for Australia again, then tries to give her teammates shit, and then all the dirty laundry about her they've kept secret comes out slowly. "

She's a loose cannon. There will be plenty of stories.

"With Patty Mills , I know its his deep feeling for where he and especially his mum came from, and both his parent's people - but you ? I have never heard you say or do anything on behalf of refugees, nigerian or otherwise. But then like so many people who have spent time with you, I'm not listening very hard anymore. So its clearly my fault. Sorry.."

Patty Mills also doesn't shame large groups of people. He can talk about issues in the indigenous community without finger pointing and blaming. He doesn't spend his time calling people racist with little cause. This is why people can get behind a Patty Mills cause but roll their eyes at an Adam Goodes or Liz Cambage. When you tell the public they're part of a problem, they will not like you. When you embrace to public as Patty has done, people are more helpful and sympathetic to the cause.

Maybe that's what the Bruce reference was about?

Anonymous is Trump.

I just can't wait for the day to be counted down. I hope she says she never plays for Australia again, then tries to give her teammates shit, and then all the dirty laundry about her they've kept secret comes out slowly.

I don't have Twitter

#thereforeIdon'thaveproblems

"Actually ME is correct with his stats remark, more lives are lost by shootings from people of the same race as opposed to the white V black theory, and more shooting by police occur because of resisting arrest by means of shooting back at police trying to do their job...... Are the police trigger happy? you bet your backside they are.... But when those they are chasing have a 99.5 % chance of being armed and will use their "constitutional" right to fire at will, then can you blame them.

Regardless it should be All lives matter."

Thanks Mr Trump.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-3709931/Olympics-Basketball-Cambage-makes-stand-diverse-Australia.html

Liz is one of australia's highest paid athletes , ( which was very important to note in the interview) and she states "I feel like the whole of Australia should be ashamed for what happened with Adam Goodes" The whole of Oz ehh.. Liz, including those of us who supported him totally, including all of us in the indigenous community ?

"If I don't call (racism) out, who's going to do it?" Cambage, who won bronze with Australia's 'Opals' at London, said in an interview with Reuters.

Yes Liz , there only you between us and racism.

Although initially reluctant to take it seriously, her natural talent was obvious to coaches and she was offered a scholarship to the Australian Institute of Sport, the national training centre for elite athletes in Canberra, when just 15.

She has since become one of the world's most sought-after players and her lucrative five-month deal to join a Shanghai team last year put her among Australia's highest-paid athletes.

Cambage will represent Australia with pride at Rio, however, and will be important for the Opals' hopes of capturing an elusive gold after medalling at the last five Olympics.

"Everyone goes to the Games with their eyes on the prize which is a gold medal," she said. "Just to be at the Olympics is an achievement but to be able to walk home with a medal is indescribable, really."

Liz, I can stretch my credulity and believe that you mean well, but who can really tell from outside your head if its altruism for others or self-absorbed "look at me" immaturity that really motivates you.

With Patty Mills , I know its his deep feeling for where he and especially his mum came from, and both his parent's people - but you ? I have never heard you say or do anything on behalf of refugees, nigerian or otherwise. But then like so many people who have spent time with you, I'm not listening very hard anymore. So its clearly my fault. Sorry..

Actually ME is correct with his stats remark, more lives are lost by shootings from people of the same race as opposed to the white V black theory, and more shooting by police occur because of resisting arrest by means of shooting back at police trying to do their job...... Are the police trigger happy? you bet your backside they are.... But when those they are chasing have a 99.5 % chance of being armed and will use their "constitutional" right to fire at will, then can you blame them.

Regardless it should be All lives matter.

Cambage should focus on her Olympics challenge and not even be on a social network tweeting such crap as how many days she has left to be a "good girl" these athletes are supposed to be role models the younger generation can look up too, not just literally because she's gigantic in size. Lead by example should be any athletes motto, someone needs to put her on the right track though I fear she actually thinks she is.

If anyone hasn't worked out ME is a moron is a concern in itself

Also, look at her Twitter following and then how many actually share her posts. As scribe once said, not many if any!

Her following is about 28k I believe. She should be getting far more, but she overloads her Twitter with her thoughts. Maybe she should calm them down a bit and focus on her career. If she did that her followers would increase and then she would have my eyes and ears paying attention to her, but it seems she isn't able to comprehend this. Look at the following many other female athletes in her position have in comparison, and it's not going to take long to work out why hers is so far below them.

Not saying she isn't backing a good cause, but how she goes about it doesn't serve it any justice half the time. She's passive aggressive at best a lot of the time, and doesn't handle herself in a mature fashion.

Simply put, if she shut up and focused the past few years on being the best she can be on court, and took some sound social media marketing advice, she would be able to share her views to a much larger audience, and possibly ins more mature way that would get better attention and create better dialogue. Instead she gives people the perception that she is merely an angry woman with a chip on her shoulder that wants the spotlight on her and doesn't care about anything or anyone else.

ME, you look like a moron quoting the stats. You might want to get a better understanding of the matter before commenting further.

Bogut is just an older version of Liz, he's always been an arrogant knob and as someone said before, fairly unlikeable. I agree with what has been written about Liz too. Immature, social climbing and definitely reminds me of Kyrgios. She's talented and was pretty much born to play basketball, but doesn't appreciate it or have any understanding of how grateful she should be to be in the position she is in.
Unfortunately Twitter has enabled those who shouldn't have a public opinion to be granted a voice.

I'm a Cambage lover.
For me , she can do no wrong.
She can only do righter...

24 and she acts like an 16 year old, Bogut just calls it how it is

When it comes to black lives matter movement, I suggest people look at the police shooting statistics by race, violent crime by race, and resisting arrest by race before deciding that the movement is valid or otherwise. The stats do not support their stance.

If you have a following, why not use that to further a cause you believe deserves support? In this case, it's BLM and I back that as deserving support. I imagine it would be a cause much closer to her personally than me too.

She was out of line to an extent. She didn't need to say anything at the time, as it had been finished, but wanted to bring attention to herself and get another 3 retweets.

She is constantly trying to jump on any opportunity to get some more notoriety. I don't see too many tweets from her that involve her actually being involved with the communities, instead they always seem to be commentary from afar.

You do know there is a difference between the 2 right?

She's fake and arrogant, but wants you to like her.

He just doesn't care if you do or not.

"She is very unlikable..."

"I respect that he doesn't...worry about being liked."

Oh.

"Bogut didn't play a single game for the Boomers in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 & 2014. He wasn't injured for 6 straight years I remember but if you choose to remember different cool bananas."

No he wasn't but when Boomers commitments came around, he was most likely either injured or recovering from an injury where he chose to rehab rather than play for the Boomers. What did you expect him to?

Liz cares only about herself although jumps on any left wing cause in the most high profile way possible in order to get likes on social media.

She is very unlikable, fake and immature.

Bogut is just a sarcastic troll who posts in a similar way to a lot of us on twitter, reddit or hoops.com.au. Only difference is that he is a multi millionaire with a larger platform. I respect that he doesn't apologise, delete tweets or worry about being liked.

I don't understand what the Aaron Bruce reference was although perhaps he was also at that music festival with Liz and could share what she got up to while there although I have no idea why he brought Aaron's name into the convo.

Anon,

Bogut didn't play a single game for the Boomers in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 & 2014. He wasn't injured for 6 straight years I remember but if you choose to remember different cool bananas.

The dude is Croatian. No way in hell was he admitting he got something wrong!

His tweet was inflammatory and unnecessary. Hers were on the right track. Out of context, the counting down tweet seems bad, but in context she's experiencing pushback against being vocal on topics that transcend basketball. She can seem petulant otherwise, but not out of line here.

Don't care much for either, but Bogut's tweets over the last few months finally got the better of me. I unfollowed him a while back. Knob.

Haha yeah true. Tad disappointing but odd to delete the original post then make a sarcastic response. Or he just tweeted an apology without thinking