Hoops

Quarter Final: Boomers vs Lithuania game thread

Yep, agree. Patty Mills has been big on that for a few years now too, and the rest of the group has bought in.

Obviously Bogut's IQ at the defensive end allows Mills, Delly, Lisch and Damo to play as aggressively as they are, not just blocking shots but filling gaps before they open and directing teammates. He's a gem.

We have gone from a team of 'maybe we can win' to a team of 'we should win' players with him leading the charge!

I rate him for so much more than an assist %, especially since assists rely of the other guy hitting the shot, not just a great pass.

Bogut brings the positive, take no prisoners attitude and self belief that gives us the confidence to do everything we are doing well!

Yes, he is big and yes he is a terrific player, but if we are talking difference makers, it is his presence and ability to make others play at the highest level that is our biggest bonus IMHO...

That should say "as effective", the Kiwis have been able to do it pretty well post-Cameron.

I think our other bigs have passed the ball well this tournament, but Bogut is something else in that department. I think there are only two other centres in the tournament within half of his 4.4apg.

Yep, without him or a similar passing big man we couldn't be effective in this style offence. He is to the Boomers what Pero Cameron was to NZ, only with a bit more defence!

Adding Bogut was also pretty important, just sayin'

You are right Paul. I have always been jealous of the way the NZ have played at International Basketball while we looked dis-organised. They were able to get the best out of a bunch of very good and high IQ players that didn't have the talent available that their opposition id. Finally we appear to have added Structure to a very talented squad that have the attitude and basketball smarts to succeed.

Yep. No Aussie team has come close to playing like this one. It's a real Aussie style of basketball and the world is struggling to handle it.

After years of watching NZ play the style from our part of the world and perform really well, it's great to see our boys execute it so well with world class talent to boot.

Huge credit to Lemanis, he has built something special, step-by-step over four years. Hopefully someone will give that man a medal!

I'd like to see them keep Lemanis.

It seems we change Boomers coaches every few years. Off the top of my head I can't recall the reasons (if people stood down, or were pushed?) but regardless of what happens from here, this has been a successful tourny by most observers reckoning, and clearly everyone buys into Lemanis' plan.

Most of the players will still be around in 2019 and 2020 also, so keeping the same successful system can only help.

The key Aussie guys have played plenty of major tournaments now, and all played together last year too which was a bonus. Lisch is our only rookie.

Andersen 6
Baynes 3
Bogut 4
Ingles 5
Mills 4
Dellavedova 3

That's one of the key reasons they are doing so well, they know the international game, they know each other, they know the game plan.

Andersen, Baynes, Ingles, Motum, Lisch and Broekhoff have all played multiple seasons in Europe, and all played in the Euroleague from memory. Goulding also played one season in the ACB. That's 7/12.

"Lithuania has had more opportunities to showcase their talent individually" was meant to be *internationally*, I really need to proof read more :-)

*Most of the Aussie team* as in, the ones in the NBA, obviously.... Baynes and Ingles being the only ones who played much in Europe.

Yeah that’s fair, but, of course, Lithuania has had more opportunities to showcase their talent individually because they're in Europe so they get to compete in Eurobasket every 2 years. Whereas Australia gets to play a couple of games against New Zealand. So in some ways, the comparison is a little unfair on the Aussies.

Bogut has been injured and hasn’t been able to show what a talent he is much since 2008. Patty- after leading the scoring in London- missed 2014 worlds, so hasn’t actually had the chance to compete in a major international event during the prime of his career- until now!

Most of the Aussie team (notably Bogut, Patty, Delly) have barely even played in Europe because they went straight to the NBA. The body of the work of the Aussies in the NBA- if you watch them closely- shows that they were likely to translate their abilities and star in the international game. And so far they have.

It’s just unfortunate that with the changing schedule, this team won’t get to play the world cup until 2019 instead of 2018. But it looks very promising for 2019 and 2020!

In international basketball Lithuania's talent is evenly matched to Australia's.

In the NBA Australia has a clear edge.

In Europe the Lithuanians have the edge, with the David Andersen the only Boomer who has been a high-level Euroleague player for more than a couple of months.

We can both pick facts that suit ourselves.

4 of their 9 rotation players from the 2013 worlds and the 2014 Eurobasket, and 6 of their 12 man roster for each tournament were not in Rio. If we go back to 2010- when Lithuania also achieved success which you were including in your tallies- then the team was even more different. Much more so.

Further, go back to the context of the debate. I said that Australia had better names- and I meant the combination of their body of work in NBA, Europe and International basketball- which is all relevant. Nothing you’ve said has made me question that. I have never said that Seibutis, Kalneitis etc were not impressive players- my argument was that Lithuania is a program that gets the most out of its players but that the Boomers had more impressive individual players. (As it turns out, we both agree that the Boomers under Lemanis are fast turning into a program that also gets the most out of it’s talent!).

I was referring to Patty Mills- who was the leading scorer in the London Olympics and then was a key element of the Spurs bench in their NBA championship- in an offensive system that is as much international as it is NBA. I was referring to Aron Baynes, who was the Boomers best player in the 2014 Worlds. I was referring to Bogut and the roles he has played as the starting 5 man- protecting the rim and setting screens- on an NBA championship team. Etc etc.

Lithuania’s rotation- highly decorated as they are with the important roles they’ve played in World championships, Eurobaskets etc- is simply not as impressive a group of basketball players, individually, as Australia’s players in terms of what they’ve achieved on the basketball court.

I'm just going to repeat this paragraph for you.

Their top five scorers from the 2015 silver are in Rio, so are three of their top four scorers from 2014 and three of their top four scorers from the 2013 silver.

Most of the core of their recent success is in Rio. Seven of these guys have played in either three or four tournaments the past four years, including most of their leading scorers.

Just admit it you got it wrong when you said I was giving the guys too much credit for their part in Lithuania's team success. The facts are clear, these are high-quality international players.

Yes, Lithuania would be better with a couple more of their frontcourt players for sure, but that doesn't subtract from the international quality of the key guys who are here.

Agree with you re their end of bench depth, and I think it's a great credit to the Aussies the way our guys without a heap of international experience have played their roles.

Paul- when you’ve been playing, watching and/or coaching basketball for 20 years, you don’t need to watch every game to get an idea of what’s happening. Stats, of course, don’t even tell half the story but they do tell us a lot. Although you don’t need to be some kind of basketball connoisseur to see that the Lithuanian teams from 2013 and 2014 were very different to the teams from Rio.

As I said, Lithuania have virtually the same team as 2015 so I don’t mind you giving them credit for Eurobasket last year (Although, having said that, they won some very close games which suggests that might have been a bit lucky on occasions).

My issue was with prior to that- where analysis of the minutes spread shows that the team was totally different.

In 2014, there were 9 main guys in the rotation. There were only 9 players who played in every single game, and those were also the only 9 players who averaged at least 12 minutes per contest. 4 of them were not in Rio.

In 2013 the story is much the same- They had 9 main guys in their rotation. 7 players who appeared in all 11 games. 3 of them were not in Rio. They had another 2 who appeared in 10 of 11 games. 1 of them was not in Rio. Again, 4 of the 9 rotation players weren’t in Rio.

So in Rio, Lithuania had only about half of their rotation from the 2013 Eurobasket and the 2014 worlds.

Lithuania had a bunch of experienced heads in Rio- but also had some inexperienced kids and lesser players. Perhaps that’s why in the quarter final, after Maciulis did some boneheaded things and had to sit on the bench, and after Jankunas got injured, the team struggled so much. Maybe if they’d had Motiejunas, Kleiza etc- instead of Grigonis, Sabonis etc- they would have put up a more competitive performance.

LV, what are you judging their contribution to those wins on. You wrote "I mostly watch NBA and NBL", but now you know who has done what for Lithuania over the years?

How many of their games have you watched over the period where the core of the current group have been playing?

Their top five scorers from the 2015 silver are in Rio, so are three of their top four scorers from 2014 and three of their top four scorers from the 2013 silver.

If the top scorers from their 2nd, 4th and 2nd place finishes the past three years don't get credit for their success, who does? If you look at the other major stat categories the story is mostly the same.

The reality is both Australia and Lithuania have excellent talent, but because you watch mostly the NBA and NBL you aren't aware of many of the Lithuanians like you are the Aussies.

The point is not that Greg Hire is comparable to Seibutis etc, or even that his value on the Wildcats is comparable to the value all those guys bring to the Lithuanian team. The point was that basketball is a team game, and Paul was giving too much credit to these Lithuanian players for results achieved with teams that included other players.

I said the Aussie team had better names- on the basis of what they have achieved at various levels of basketball- NBA, Europe, International. And I also said I expected good results on the court from these names in this team- on the basis of the compatibility of their skillsets on the basketball court. I’m very happy to see the Boomers confirming my suspicions about them and becoming officially the best Aussie team in 15+ years and – the way it’s looked throughout this tournament - the best Boomers team ever.

"You've said some hilariously wrong stuff lately, but comparing Kalnietis, Maciulis, Kuzminskas, Seibutis and Valanciunas to Greg Hire takes the cake! Thanks for the entertainment".

Huge straw man.

Or in Hire's case, 5 other players on the floor because you're glued firmly to the end of the bench.

This person has missed the point that people don't win NBL titles without having atleast 4 other players on the floor.

"Question: How many NBL titles has Greg Hire won?

Answer: None without Nate Jawai, James Ennis, Jermaine Beal and friends winning it with him."

You've said some hilariously wrong stuff lately, but comparing Kalnietis, Maciulis, Kuzminskas, Seibutis and Valanciunas to Greg Hire takes the cake! Thanks for the entertainment.

Yes Damien Martin has justified his selection. Australia has done a great job of rotating pests on opposition guards and throwing them out of their offense.

Damo is now +57 in 59 minutes and is fifth in the comp in steals despite playing less than 12mpg. He certainly isn't wasting this chance he has waited so long for!

Really pleased with Martin's impact, 4 assists and 4 steals. Martin even had the best +/- per minute on the team with +21 in 16 minutes. It will be interesting to see if Teodosic comes off the bench again, because that might make Martin especially vital if he again is first guard off the bench.

Martin certainly got some good minutes this game. I guess Lemanis likes what he brings on defence.
(definitely not there for his scoring ability)

They're not, that's premium-only. I think one was, briefly, at a lower resolution, but I've not since seen any replays available without premium (although I've only checked once, back when I couldn't sign in). Premium is free for Telstra customers, though, so all you need is a Telstra ID.

Pretty sure that game replays are free on the 7Rio2016 website & app.

After spending all night on a plane I arrived this morning to the great news. Have been trying to follow as best I could and had a VPN so watch some games on BBC with a crappy internet connection.

Now I am home is there anywhere I can watch a replay as my VPN has expired.

I think theyy are, yes.

More importantly, are they going back to Peak after the Olympics? Will just grab one of those instead if they are

And the shorts come to think of it

Yet Team USA jerseys are widely available in Australia.

Don't think the Olympic uniforms worn by the athletes in any sport is ever made available to the public. Makes sense, but I sure would love to rock one of those jerseys.

Actually cannot find anything about it online. Adidas would be making a mint on the Boomers singlets alone!

Seems an odd thing for a sports apparel company not to bother selling, right?
This sponsorship would not have been cheap. Milk it for all it's worth, Adidas!

I doubt they sell any of the Olympic uniforms

Anyone know where you can buy an adidas Boomers singlet? Saw BigAds in another thread said sports centre in Adelaide but they only had the peak ones. Are they only wearing adidas for the Olympics then going back to peak?

That was fun. Let's do it again.

We all get it ME, you were right all along you absolute superstar of a man. You deserve a gold medal for letting everyone know hpw right you were. Dellys six games this Olympics have been better than all but two of his NBA career, how strange people may have not seen this coming from him

Great win for the Boomers, congratulations and lets hope they can snag a Medal.
Lemanis has them playing a great brand of team basketball that is a pleasure to watch.

I will be cheering for the Green & Gold.

Generally speaking @skull, I wouldn't disagree, however the Boomers have always been a good team defensively and our team oriented style would create good shots from the field, however this team is different.

This team can defend as well as teams in the past, it can play team oriented basketball as well as teams in the past, what separates the 2016 Boomers from the pack before it is confidence gained through experience and self belief.

We just don't usually see this amount of dunking and ally-oopness in our boys and I am loving it...

It sends a message, one that is making the whole world sit up and take notice!

Offence wins games....Defence wins medals

One game at a time boys, well done on a great effort but focus on the next game now!

Lithuania were brave I thought, they lacked our depth for sure but were dangerous in a couple of positions, which we scouted and did a good job to nullify.

Confidence is king and at the moment we are on that side of the court, pun intended...

Boomers win. I get on the screen and my chewbacca helps with a missed Lithuanian free throw. Job well done

I guess the other thing to come out of this is Lithuania either didn't manufacture results, they just fell apart mysteriously after beating Argentina, or else they got completely run over by the karma bus!! Either way, what they'll face at home will make what Joyce and the Opals are copping seem pretty tame.

"Those 4 assists & 4 steals .... Newley would have dunked those ;)"

Gold, my friend.

I can't remember being more excited than this about basketball!! This team is truly amazing.

To put how well they play together in perspective, they have now handed out 160 assists (to 70 turnovers) in six games. The previous best by a Boomers team at a major tourny is 143 in eight games. Incredible.

Bogut is just a freak big man with his ability to read the game and put passes on the money.

And Damian Martin - wow! He certainly shut up some critics tonight. He and Delly have 58 assists, 13 steals and just eight turnovers between them.

So amazing to see us dominate a Euro powerhouse with pressure basketball after having lost so many key games not being able to play that European style.

Getting ahead of myself, but the Boomers are a legit gold medal chance. That would be a nice way to flush the memory of so many disappointing Aussie team efforts these Olympics, most notably the Opals.