Hoops

Bronze medal game: Boomers vs Spain

Finally got to see Bogut's fourth full-screen, as opposed to as part of Channel 7's "Megawall"...I think it might have been worse than the call on Mills. Definitely understand why Andrej wouldn't have noticed it was on Bogut.

Boti's take on the game

http://botinagy.com/blog/daylight-robbery---boomers-in-rio/

The NBA's "last two minute reports" have really showcased the brilliance of the NBA's refs...

Oh, wait a second.

"I am all for the ridiculously unfeasible situation of having nothing but NBA refs in these tournaments."

Gold Mick, when it was an NBA ref who made the call on Mills. Anyone who watches the NBA playoffs knows there is no referee magic there.

The issue for mine is how refs are instructed to call the game. If they are inconsistent it generally means there isn't clear enough direction.

I think there are too many basketball players watching football/soccer. The acting that is now involved is ridiculous. Where is the old real basketball.

Now for the ref's - is FIBA going to review and accountability be held? It's a privilege they are selected for the Games. Maybe they need to be held accountable for bad decisions...maybe with pay or ranking. Mr Anderson is an NBA ref - hit him where it hurts him best - in the back pocket. Players get fined for bad behaviour why not refs for bad refing. Makes them accountable for blowing the whistle.

The issue here is the entire 2 weeks of basketball - poor refing no consistency across the board. FIBA refs didn't have control of the game, lost all credibility with players, coaches and spectators and that's a real shame. Refs work so hard and the instruction they get from FIBA is nothing short of POOR JUDGEMENT.

1 thing I would love to know - how many Tech's and Unsportsmanlike fouls were called overall?

0 Stars FIBA. You've lost your credibility!

Go have a look at the vision. Belosovic (who is the Serbian referee) hands the ball to Fernandez on the sideline, Anderson (USA) is under the basket and Vasquez (Puerto Rico) is centre official. The call comes from the lead referee under the basket. (Anderson).

I am probably not going to say much more about the result of this game, so I want to leave it with some thoughts and hindsight.

Speaking with people from not such a basketball background, who were actually interested in this game, also speaking with coaches from overseas, in other countries and quite a few basketball people here as well it is very highly accepted that the Boomers were robbed.

That said, in hindsight now, what were the repercussions of this and what have we really lost, compared with Spain and how much potential drive for the sport did we have taken away from us with one poor decision?

It may be the case that we did enough and have shown that basketball is played at the highest level in Aus by both male and female athletes that either result isn't going to hurt our reputation that much!

However, in Europe in particular countries like Spain/Serbia are not short in their development of basketball, they are not lacking passion and money or exposure in their media, nor do they fall short of providing quality international grade competition only superseded by soccer in crowds, media and money.

For a nation like Australia, where the sporting dollar is so thin, especially for a sport we need a boost in, I do feel we were on the cusp of something enormous.

We may have almost reached that pinnacle, we may have actually reached it, but for the sake of a bad call in the Boomers game and a shock result for the Opals, wouldn't it have just been an amazing shot in the arm for our sport had we gained a medal (just one)...

No it was there Serb.

Mick...who do you think called the foul on Mills? It was the NBA ref Anderson... you now look stupid.

The problem is though you can't trust the FIBA refs to make that decision even with video. They just don't get it. They don't understand the importance of consistency.

I am all for the ridiculously unfeasible situation of having nothing but NBA refs in these tournaments. I would be happy to lose whatever is lost from them not knowing the FIBA rules as strictly and would not be worried about them being biased towards the Americans. They are the best refs in the world.

It will obviously never happen, but I can dream.

What about a yellow/red card system after video review? If Mirotic is suspected of flopping, the refs can talk and decide if it needs to be looked at. Go to the bench, have a look, and if guilty, the yellow card comes out. Next flop, he's out of the game, and misses the next one.

I'm thinking that'd be a deterrent.

But they do have flop warnings. Reyes was warned this morning. If you're gonna warn someone for doing something, logically you need a next line of punishment for serial offenders.

Because it's ingrained in European sporting culture to flop and if the refs don't call a foul next time flop even harder. FIBA is very Euro-centric and that will never change so I can't see anything being seriously done about it. All it would take is for one top Euro nation to threaten to pull out and then others making similar noises and it will just go out the window.

Why can’t FIBA introduce an NBA style penalty system for major tournaments to stop flopping?

Review each game, and if someone commits a serious flop then issue a warning. On the second offense in a major tournament, they miss the next game. If it’s the last game (say, Bronze medal match) and it’s a second offense for the tournament then the one game penalty can carry over to the next major tournament, eg: Eurobasket 2017.

Bogut's second was a bit too aggressive given he already had a foul.

But his first (9:17, Q1) should have resulted in Mirotic being warned for flopping instead of a foul for Bogut, and his 4th (9:42, 3) was just a horrible call. Nothing in it and Mirotic jumped out of bounds like he'd sprinted from half court and saved a loose ball. Mirotic had them around his little finger. Played them like a cheap guitar.

Bogut deserves to take some blame for that too there were a couple of brain farts from him especially the last one. He had just gotten his fourth I think and we were trying to get him out and he allows the spaniard to run into him.

With 1.5 quarters still to go he should've made sure he wasn't anywhere near the action even walking off down the other end until we got him out. Him staying available was much more important than giving up two points early in the 3rd quarter.

I feel sick watching the replay while focusing on Mirotic and the foul calls, especially when Bogut is matched up on Mirotic. Mirotic has already developed a reputation in the NBA as a flopper.

In the past there has been a flood of complaints about Mills flopping, but he is a absolute saint compared with Mirotic. Seriously, I've lost count of the number of flops and exaggerated reactions by Mirotic in this game. When it happened, I felt it was poetic justice when Mirotic injured himself mid-flop, but now I suspect he hardly injured himself at all, just upped his acting once he went down.

There was definitely a concerted effort by Spain to suck the refs into fouling Bogut out. It worked in under 14 minutes.

Nothing line ball about those calls, stop the diplomacy. We got screwed, really screwed hard.

The problem is: how do you stamp out flopping from a FIBA tournament?

I think the NBA has proved the only way to stamp it out is through post-match fines. It's too hard for refs to call (especially FIBA refs) in the thick of the action.

And you can't really fine FIBA players because of the drastic difference in each of their net worth.

I have to say, Mirotic' flop injury (9:02, Q4) is one of the funniest moments in the Olympics, right up there with the penis pole vaulter. The replay is just gold.

So was Jokic flopping after Saric shoved him in their quarter final.

I find these dives hilarious- Jokic' was the most dramatic though- literally stumbled about 6 steps and fell on the floor after Saric gave him a shove in the key. Worth getting a hold of that footage...

Correction, koberulz, you just need to APPEAR to touch the player.

How many calls were based on what they thought happened (or was going to happen) rather than what actually happened.

Baynes probably earned his Tech, he ran back up the court exageratedly slapping his own head to the umps, must have done it about three or four times. The other two were very soft though. In both cases the player just seemed to be looking for an explanation of the call. The USF was also ludicrous, just Motum trying to extract his arm from where it was being held.

It doesn't matter whether you've established position or not, you still have to touch the player to be called for a foul.

It looked line ball, I don't think Mills has established position but at the same time no foul should've been called should've been play on.

@hoopie, it wasn't even close to being 'line ball', was it?

Call me cynical but ...

Every ref at top levels worries about how the power-brokers view them and their reffing. If any really powerful coaches or administrators don't like you, then you can kiss your top-level career goodbye.

If a far-away mob like Australia complains about the reffing, then nobody else gives a rats. However, if a powerful country like Spain complains, then the ref'd be pretty worried.

Can we really expect line-balls to go our way under that kind of politics and pressure?

@Dazz, I think the general consensus is that the last two calls going against Australia were not even close to being 50/50 calls that could have gone either way.

They were in fact just plain and simple very, very, very BAD and INCORRECT calls that INFLUENCED the RESULT!

There, I feel better now...

From spending some time watching the replay, both teams were copping some very soft fouls.

But the key differences in the treatment of the two teams (or, the way the teams responded to the ridiculous reffing, if you like…) were:

1. Aussies best players copped it worse. Eg: Bogut and Baynes both copped phantom fouls inside the first minute of the game. This means your two key rim protectors and best two players in the air and in the key, are automatically going to be cautious and second guessing themselves from the get go. Bogut ended up fouling out.

2.Spanish players are much more adept at flopping, so they were in a better position to capitalise on the reffing style. Reyes was the only player warned for flopping. Mirotic did it all game- right from the tip off- including drawing Bogut’s 1st and 4th fouls with flops, yet was never warned.

3. Australia copped 2 techs- both without any visible remonstrating from the guilty party- and 1 unsportsmanlike where there was barely any contact, let alone contact justifying a USF, whereas Spain only copped 1 tech (also without any visible remonstrating or anything that looked obviously untoward). These are the worst calls to be on the end of because they result in FTs and possession, and the Aussies copped 3 to Spain’s 1.

4.As has been well publicised, the Aussies copped 2 shockers at the death, gifting Spain 4 points inside the last 30 seconds.

Some samples of bad calls against Aus
1st Q
Bogut 9:17
Baynes 9:11
Andersen 1:39

3rd Q
Bogut 4th 9:42
Baynes tech 5:47 3rd
Motum USF 5:12 3rd

4th Q
Delly 7:43 foul and tech
Baynes 28.8 sec
Mills 5.4 secs

Flops (other than flops that contributed to many of the fouls called above)
Mirotic 9:02 4th Q hurt his knee when flopping, trying to draw the foul on Baynes who was diving on loose ball

The ref:
http://bgbasket.com/en/referee.php?id=115#

The refs were bad in this game too much OTT-authoritarian FIBA nonsense but they were bad for both teams we just drew the short straw getting one of those crap calls at the wrong time.

You can get away calling games like this earlier in the tournament to try and establish precedent but under no circumstances do you make calls like this in a medal game.

If anything you let more go you don't throw around techs for players looking at cross-eyed at you after one of your amateurish calls. Spain got some shocking calls too it was just badly officiated.

It's sad when you're left "wondering" about the Refs like this.
Were they just incompetent? Biased? Worse?
Always a problem when a game is so close, and there are critical decisions that could have gone either way.

I'm only vaguely aware of who the refs were, and have no idea what their background is or how they performed in other games.
But over the decades there have been a couple of Olympic sports tainted by allegations of entrenched national bias, and even corruption, in sports that are reliant on Judges.
Unfortunately, in a gamed decided by a point, the refs can have too much impact.

What was Bogut left out on court with 4 fouls when Spanish players were targeting him?

Pau over the back was the biggest no call for me. It's a clear foul and makes the mills issue a non factor altogether. Pau is brilliant and plays with such passion for his country but he had a firm grip on that box out. Foul.

The Boomers are the bronze medalists as far as I am concerned. Spain are just minding the medals for us

Looking at some neutral sites, the last two calls against the Boomers are being pretty much universally condemned.

Looking at the vine, it should have been a foul on Pau on the rebound over Baynes' back. Game over!

The interesting thing this highlights, apart from the obvious, is how long it took the ref to make the call.

https://vine.co/v/5M3XEvhdT92

Is there a clip of the Baynes call floating around anywhere?

That was a great game last night (refereeing aside).

It seemed like it took the Boomers the first quarter and a half of the second to find their feet again after the Serbia debacle. We also couldn't stop Spain doing whatever they wanted in a two man game.

That said, it was guts and sheer brilliance which kept us in the game to the very last second. Neither side could land a killer blow, and we certainly had our chances.

Terrible call against Mills at the end, but when playing the what if game, who knows whether it would have affected the game. That said, it would have been Spain trying to manufacture a play with 5 seconds left rather than us (but I am guessing they would have put up a good look somehow).

Who will Cairns go for in the import stakes? I suspect that they will have to do it cheaply, but still get a quality option. Guys I can think of include.

Willie Farley - Demonstrated that he is in top shape during the HSH and that he can still ball. His defense actually looked very good during the tournament as it has been one criticism over the years. He has the body like a d-mac or even a copeland as he could play for years and still dominate. A great bring in quick option for Cairns and would be cheap, still getting them 20ppg.

Ebie Erie - a possible option, but he asks for a lot of money so I am not sure they could afford this at the ,moment. Good scorer though

Mike Helms - He may come as a cheap option and he could put some points on the board for them. I am not sure where he is playing at the moment though.

Take a risk on a young guy or unknown is probably the only other option, but a real risk for Cairns.

And yes, the reffing was a debacle last night and the Aussies copped the worst of it. But in basketball, things like this will continue to happen for as long as the game exists....

Refs can have a huge influence on the results of basketball games.

Unfortunately we need to recognise that this happens all the time at all levels of basketball.

Recent high profile examples:

- Melbourne United getting handed the win vs NZ via incompetence, even after a lengthy on court review. Goulding/Webster.
- Spurs Game 2 vs Thunder. (Refer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JfzS0o70Y)
- Spurs Game 5 vs Thunder. Adams trip (unintentional) that went uncalled. Kawhi fouling Westbrook that went uncalled, leading to the score by Westbrook.

So just with teams I follow, you could say that the refs were a factor in UTD getting the minor premiership last season and the refs were a factor in the Spurs early exit from the playoffs.

At some point, we have to admit that this is an inescapable fact of basketball. There’s usually no conspiracy, it just happens. There’s a lot of interpretation involved, and the game just exists in such a way that refs have more of an impact than they do in some other sports (Say, AFL footy or Tennis as two good examples).

Deserved the bronze. Fought back from 10 or so down against a strong team and saw a couple of very iffy calls go against them late. Mills' blocking foul and Andersen in the rebounding competition were not "finals basketball" calls at all. Very touchy refs with techs against both teams - Delly, Fernandez (I think it was?) - do you really leave it until a medal game to start cracking down on mild griping?

The Serbia game was one blip in what was otherwise a very good tournament for Australia. Besides that, it was two narrow losses against the top two teams. A lot to be proud of, and to enjoy watching.

Mills' game against Spain was excellent. 30 points and 3 steals. Consistent effort at both ends - played 36+ minutes.

Ingles didn't seem to look to score much at all. 3 FGA in 30:04? Meanwhile, Broekhoff had 13 points without missing in 16:39.

Great cameo from Motum when Bogut was out. 12 and 6 in 15 minutes!

Gasol and Mirotic were just too good. Gasol went 12/15 FG. Far from done despite his age.

Inability to get a shot up again on the last possession (World champs same thing).

What was Bogut left out on court with 4 fouls when Spanish players were targeting him?

Lemanis has some things to think about.

That call on Mills makes me want to spew. That'd be a horrible call in F Grade domestic ball. I hope that ref has his guide dog stolen on the walk back to his hotel.

MVP the refs, they won the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Claim a moral bronze. I consider them to be the bronze medalists personally. That referee should hang himself in shame.

Great effort from our guys. Really feel for them as they gave it everything and played sensational. 7 great games and 1 bad one is way more than I could have hoped for. It has been terrific being along for the ride.

With those calls in the last couple of minutes I am claiming a moral victory for the Boomers. Not sure what colour medal that is though.

Gutted. Horrible call on Mills. Boys did incredibly well, so good to see them fight through a rough start and get right back into the game. They certainly showed the SF was just a (very poorly timed) bad day.

Super tournament, deserved a medal but that's the way it goes unfortunately.

Guts effort by the Boomers, in the end that fourth place is probably par for us, but with some luck I think we could easily have been pushing the USA for a gold, yet it is how teams match up against each other and the individual player's head space that determines results in tournaments as much as anything else.

Refereeing across the tournament was average at best and terribly inconsistent in games like this, not a great look when they have an influence over any game. That is unavoidable when we get officials from different countries bringing their own interpretations with them I'm afraid!

Proud of the Boomers, well done to everyone concerned, I look forward to our next Boomers team and think that we can only improve really, Go Aussie...

I think we should try to keep Lemanis as Boomers coach if we can. Let's face it, we were right in this game and rightfully won it without Andrew Bogut even really being involved.

Good on Bogut for calling out the Spanish flopfest and dodgy refereeing:

"Obviously we are disappointed, at times we felt we were outnumbered on the court for the majority of the game,'' he said.

"It felt like we were playing a different sport. Teh superman dived into me and the referees bought it.

"Some of them you could see on the tape how obvious they were. You tap these guys and they go flying and the referees bought it.

"We tried to adjust knowing what they were going to do but the last two fouls were tough on us."

Does FIBA suspend players for criticism of Olympic refereeing? Can we read anything into this with regards to Bogut's thoughts about his status for future Boomers teams?

I presume FIBA Olympic medal games must go to OT, but if they didn't, this was a game that deserved a shared medal result.

Still, IMO, unquestionably the best Boomers team ever. Only losses were a respectable loss to USA where we intentionally didn't go all-out, a controversial bronze medal game loss against a proven veteran team, and the only really bad game was at a seriously bad time against a team that we had previously defeated.