Hoops

Conspiracy Theory - Andre Ingram

Shitloads of money being paid on 2 players.

Luuuc, I don't think it's even a loophole to fix. If the Wildcats want to have Lucas Walker on standby all season, and he's happy to do that, why shouldn't that be allowed?

The whole 'have to replace a season-ending injury' thing has never really made sense to me.

Cathy in Payroll.

So where does his salary come from?

Ok, that I could understand.
Surely there is a more elegant way of achieving that goal though (i.e. the closing of a salary cap loophole)?
Because to me there is nothing intrinsically bad about re-signing the same guy later in a season. If anything I think it's a good thing for both the club and the player if they are permitted to return, rather than forcing the club to sign someone different.

Luuuc, memory tells me the rule was put in place to stop richer clubs hoarding players, having some not on the active roster and not counting against points or salary cap but ready to go if needed, eg a replacement whenever there was a short-term injury.

I’m not sure if there was a precedent that led to the rule being put in place or just a case of paranoia, but it is probably outdated now and could be gotten rid of.

At anon, I believe the difference is a deactivated player is still contracted but not on the roster, where as a released is free to move to other clubs/leagues.

Yeah I was wondering the same thing Luuuc, does anyone know if there is actually any difference between 'deactivated' and 'released/delisted/cut/dropped' etc? I thought the initial press it seemed like an odd word to use, but thought maybe they thought they'd use it to sound less harsh or something lol. Plenty of other news reports on Johnson used words like 'sacked'and 'released' instead of 'deactivated' like the Cats used. Is there actually a technical difference between the 2? or did the Cats media team just think it was a better word to use at the time?

Why would Ingram agree to having his name dragged through the mud? This theory makes no sense. Johnson isn't the first guy to keep training with the club after being cut. Muo did the same. If there are no immediate job opportunities then I guess it's a chance to stay in shape and keep working out until an opportunity comes about. And from the cats perspective its a good contingency in case of an injury/illness emergency

JJ should probably try to renegotiate his contract for this game and ask for around 8-15k to play.

"Mental health issues can't be taken lightly and to suggest it would be used as a sham excuse, by anyone, is offensive. "

Not saying it has happened here but its equally offensive to use mental health as an excuse to cover poor behaviour (like Buddy Franklin and Gary Lyon).

So I gather that the only real difference between a deactivation and a sacking is that the Cats are prepared to keep paying him to stick around even though he's not playing.

My question is, why do the rules (supposedly) differentiate between a deactivated player and a player released from their contract when it comes to their eligibility to play again for the same team?
What is the intent of this rule?

I agree LV, I think it's a bit of both. He is waiting for his agent to find something and hanging around in case a spot opens up at the cats or elsewhere in the NBL. He genuinely loves it here and maybe he sees training with the cats as a way to develop his game in the meantime.

The most plausible explanation IMO is that JJ is looking to explore other overseas options and is just hanging around Perth while his agent sorts it out. In that case, the Cats are just lucky that he's still there while all the injuries went down, cos at least they still have the option for him to play more games right now.

It is still odd because Johnson starred in the D League last season, why hasn't he returned there in the hope of getting a 10 day contract? NBA season is just starting and teams have just trimmed down to 15 players, but people can be injured at any time. At the least, you would think JJ would want to be in the D League continuing his momentum from last season, and put himself in the spotlight for a potential NBA call up. Instead of lounging around Perth and training with the Wildcats, without even playing anywhere.

What's in it for him, other than a "potential" re call on the off chance Prather gets invited to the US (And the Cats would want Prather back if he didn't make it anyway, much like Khazzouh and Webster returned to their NBL teams when their NBA calls ups didnt work out). Are the Wildcats even paying JJ? It all sounds a bit weird to me- a few unanswered questions here.

XY, at the time Johnson was 'de-activated', Prather was still a chance (outside chance) of making the pelicans roster. Yes the roster is filled now. Call this a conspiracy theory if you will but Ingrams personal issues are real and the whole situation is very sad. We will never know Ingrams full story but I really feel for the guy, he has pro ball potential only to be held back by mental health problems.

Or as insurance in case your MVP candidate import may get an NBA call up.

Mental health issues can't be taken lightly and to suggest it would be used as a sham excuse, by anyone, is offensive.

As to Johnson, it might just be good sense for a cashed up owner to deactivate rather than release him. It only took about 5 minutes for someone on here to suggest that Sydney sign him. There are other teams that could which would be a definite upgrade on their current wings. So why not keep him around on the salary while he looks for other (non Australian) options?

See things start to make more sense... Prather's potential NBA call up is probably the reason why Johnson remained in town and was "de-activated".

Mental health issues are most likely 100% real. But Now they could bring in Johnson again.

Prather isn't going to the Pelican's though... they just filled up their roster with Lance Stephenson.

To even speculate that a team is using a persons mental health as an out clause and expecting a player to lie about it is just utter stupidity, use your common sense ppl.

It's really very easy to just take the stories on face value and even as a Kings fan, I think it's probably true...

JJ really wasn't the right fit, so he was let go...

Ingram, who had never been overseas before, and everyone I think agrees that someone with his specific skillset COULD have been making easily better money than they pay in the D-League overseas already, so the leap to getting homesick, having issues with being this far from home isn't too great...

The thing is, that Perth have a history of bending and stretching the rules to suit themselves, and the wording of the "deactivating" of JJ and that he's stayed on to train with the team, is suspicious... The fact that they used that terminology, have blatantly used mental health issues as the reason of Ingram's compassionate release when that's pretty poor form, and now they're going to use that as the basis of "reactivating" a player that was sacked, but now can come back because they hit a really poor patch of bad luck? Well, it's still suspicious...

Haha What a load of garbage, to put these ridiculous theories to rest, The reason Johnson is still here is incase Casey got an NBA contract following final cuts, the pelicans are still looking at him. The story about Ingram is legit and everyone needs to pack away their foil hats and calm down.

This deactivation thing is bizarre. Since when are imports "deactivated" and not simply released?

Nick Marvin on local radio talking about the situation.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5208574-nick-marvin-wildcats-managing-director

No new news, but it's interesting to read between the lines.

Never mentions Johnson, but says the number one priority is to field a team for Friday.

Says there's no constraints whatsoever on signing players to replace Ingram.

Confident the team will present well.

Has much faith in DKD and Rhys Vague and Corbin Wroe who he believes are the future of the Wildcats.

Nick was probed a little about Johnson but deflected every time. I'd say Johnson being re-activated again is a possibility still.

It helps that it's an away game too. Don't have to make a big hoohaa about it in front of your fans.

Some of you people are way to literal in your understanding.

The value to come out of this discussion is that the cats may have planned very well and may be able to utilise Johnson again.

It doesn't matter why they cut Johnson. What matters is they had the foresight to deactivate him - and not cut him.

It doesn't matter what the reason is that Ingram left. What matters is it could beamed as a season ending injury.

These two factors open the door for the wildcats to possibly use Johnson.

Thats the theory worth talking about.

That the Wildcats have planned well and maybe able to exploit technicalities.

It is odd the Wildcats deactivated Johnson and didn't release him. I can't remember coming across that either. Will be interesting to see Perth's next step.

Johnson dropped - Conspiracy theory that its not because he "wasn't the right fit" and that he did something wrong behind the scenes to get sacked.

Ingram leaves - New conspiracy theory that the Cats 'deactivated' Johnson just to get a look at Ingram, didn't like him, then decided to come up with a story and say he has mental health issues, sack him, then that allows them to bring Johnson back.

I can't believe it's that hard for some people to just believe the truth we've been told that Johnson was sacked because he wasn't the right fit, and that unfortunately his replacement Ingram the had to depart due to mental health issues. I see no reason for any of the conspiracy around either of these 'stories', both seem pretty legit, reasonable and believable. The Ingram conspiracy makes no sense as to why the Cats would intentionally do it.

Forget the Alfoil, you need to go straight to lead. Those CIA mind-control waves have clearly scrambled your brains.

A good conspiracy theory can be quite entertaining, but you don't even have the basics.

You're suggesting a grand conspiracy, in which Ingram is not only complicit, but agrees to be labelled as mentally ill, effectively ending any hope he has of ever playing anywhere but D-League. (Which according to you, he should still be chasing because there's nothing actually wrong with him.)
And as if that wasn't stupid enough, you're kinda missing one vital item.
In even the worst Batman episode, the Penguin always had an OBJECTIVE.
So what do you propose was the Cats' objective???
To bring in a 3-point specialist just for the Hawks & MU games?
To boost sales of fluro-orange sneakers?
To corner the market on Jeron Johnson bobble-heads?

Oh, that's right, they wanted to "look" at Ingram?
Not really sure what you think that means?
Was Trevor looking to expand his collection of locker-room photos?
What exactly is it that you think they observed in 2 games fresh off the plane? That they didn't already know?
That he's a 3-point specialist who's mediocre at the rest? Kinda suspect they already knew that one.
Do you think Ingram doctored his highlights real to make himself look taller?
Or had a friend video him dunking on an 8ft rim?

There's also the rather obvious sticking point.
Even if, for some bizarre reason that only works in your universe, the Cats hatched this massive conspiracy. Last thing they're going to do is fire it the day after they lost their two point guards to injury.

Try laying on the floor, with your feet in the air, because clearly your brain is not getting enough blood.

If he's been removed from the playing roster despite still being under contract hence de-activated of course they can.

If he's still contracted, they can't sign an import to replace him.

Is this a serious question? One means he's still contracted to the team the other means he isn't.

Ingram didn't really look NBL standard.

Do you know what the difference between those two things is? I'm not aware of one; I think you'll find the Wildcats' media people simply thought 'deactivate' sounded better in a press release.

Seriously, what do you think they saw from Ingram in the two games he played straight of the plane with no real practice time that led them to make a decision? Why would Ingram be okay with being labelled as mentally ill?

zodiac when an idea is so silly that even dazz is not on board with it that should be a huge red flag that you need to go back and think it through more carefully

Why the hell did they only de-activate Johnson and not release him then?

And then Ingram conveniently gets the season ending injury/illness

Dazz I realise you're not the sharpest tool in the shed you do understand by having a look at Ingram I meant they were trying him out to possibly replace Johnson?

Why the hell did they only de-activate Johnson and not release him then? This is the first time I've ever heard of an NBL team de-activating an import and not releasing him in my 25 years following the league.

And then Ingram conveniently gets the season ending injury/illness required allowing the Wildcats to activate the import they conveniently still had hanging around in Perth.

Come on this is typical Nick Marvin/Seamus McPeake shenanigans right here.

So, to "have a look at Ingram" they flew him to Perth with 2 days notice, had him play 2 games in 4 days, and after he performed EXACTLY as expected, they decided they didn't like him???
Dude, you need thicker Alfoil.

And why would Ingram go along with that?

Any suggestions of shenanigans over his mental illness only applies to re-activating JJ. So what is the big conspiracy there? The Cats wanted to give JJ a little holiday???

I highly doubt there is any form of cover up to bend the rules or conspiracy. I think he does genuinely have a mental illness, likely some form anxiety or depression. Being away from home and playing professionally overseas would definitely make this worse or triggered something for him. It makes sense why a player of his shooting ability would have never left the D-League to go overseas if he had an illness like that.

He's probably always had it, but been able to treat it much more easily at home and been able to continue to play in the D-League. It is a massive thing going to the other side of the world to play, so I can easily see how it could have made any underlying condition of his worse. In an interview from months ago and he kept talking about his family and how thankful he was to never be away from them long. He probably thought he'd now try it, but quickly realised he just couldn't do it.

I usually love a good conspiracy theory, but I just can't make the facts fit any.
There's no way the Cats CHOOSE to cut Ingram just after they lose their two PGs. Even if they'd decided he was crap, and/or the plan was to get in recently cut NBA combo guard, why not have him play until the new guy is ready to go.
Any suggestions of shenanigans over his mental illness only applies to re-activating JJ. So what is the big conspiracy there? The Cats wanted to give JJ a little holiday???

As for why JJ is still training? Possibly its a mutual obligation, and they're still paying him, and keeping him fresh in case somebody else wants to pick him up.
Or yes, presumably Prather has some kind of NBA out, and they wanted to keep JJ on stand-by, at least until that date passes. Makes sense in the circumstances.
IF (and I have no idea) Prather was a chance of a call-up, he's done that no harm with his start to the season.
Bug again, no big conspiracy there.

There is mental illness which is serious, it is also treatable with therapy, medication and lifestyle changes. It can also range from mild disorders lasting a few weeks to severe illnesses that can be life-long.

Ingram is a guy who has barely missed a D-League game in the last 10 years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/dleague/players/i/ingraan01d.html

I'm guessing by his past history that his issues only occurred during the d-league off season.

I advocate for mental health awareness although I think dropping the 'mental issues' card in a press release to get around league rules (if that is what has potentially occurred) is weak.

Mental Illness is definitely an illness and not just a matter of " mental scars from being away from home".

'injury or illness'

mental illness = illness

"There is a chance the Wildcats could bring back Johnson who is still in Perth. Under NBL rules a player who is removed from the team roster may not return to that same club roster in the same season, unless he is replacing a player who has suffered a season ending injury or illness, which Ingram is."

I'm not sure how home sickness classify's as a season ending injury.

An actual injury with a timetable for recovery makes sense (eg ACL 12 months).

"Mental scars" from being away from home.... if he ends up playing in the D-League again this year and Jaron Johnson replaces him for a few games until they find a marquee name it kind of makes the league rules look like a joke. (no surprise)

Yeah I was thinking Johnson could be sticking around for a little bit in case Prather gets an NBA call up soon or a long term injury.

Possibly might even want to keep him close and look to sign him for next year when/if Prather leaves

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Wilson got citezenship in Finland.

Didn't Wilson get citizenship in Finland or wherever it was?

Ervin didn't pass the citizenship test. Spelt his name wrong.

expect Johnson to be re-activated soon

Is Johnson still here in case Prather gets an NBA call up mid season?

Sounds like shit but could be plausible.

So with NBA cutting players today is there anyone out there that the Wildcats must talk to?

Did Jamar Wilson or Gary Ervin ever get Australian citizenship?

It's all starting to look a bit dodgy.

It would explain why Johnson was originally listed as 'de-activated' not released keep him hanging around in Perth still paying him of course, trial Ingram in-season didn't like the look of him so released him on season ending 'illness' grounds thus allowing them to replace him with the 'de-activated' Johnson.

Can Dazz run the point?