Hoops

How do you fix United's problems?

with reference to paul's "rough patch" comment, Melbourne went 2W-7L in the six weeks from 13 November to Christmas Day, last season. You can't write them out of contention at 3-6 with good players to return.

The difference this seasons is that the team appears to be internally fraught and the coach can't get them on the same page. However, that sounds like NZ in the middle of last season, when they went 1W-7L from 20 December to 23 January. NZ were able to fix that and turn it into a grand final appearance. Interestingly, Jackson was a key part of the problem there, as well.

You'd probably change the player before changing the coach but you'd need a good replacement ready to swap in. Otherwise you're probably going to lose some more before you get back on track. It may be too late to recover and make finals, by then. NZ got at least a bit lucky to still make finals last season, after their rough patch, in light of Randle's injury.

Isaac, do you mean if MU dump Jackson this season ? The only issue with that is who would he replace ?

Obviously not Randle, Ferguson probably won't be cut under any circumstances (although he's the weakest link given we can cover sf/sg) and Jacobsen is giving us everything we hoped he would.

They'll have to play their best game of the season to beat Sydney. But there's no logical reason to be overly worried about any other team.

United has played Cairns, NZ (twice) and Perth and lost 4 games by 8 points or less, including one in OT. 3 of those 4 games were without Goulding.

Last on the ladder and their upcoming games are:

vs Kings (1st)
vs Taipans (4th)
vs Kings (1st)
vs Breakers (3rd)
at Wildcats (2nd)
at Kings (1st)

DD, Jackson and Tomlinson need to go. Bad attitudes and chemistry not helping.
Majok played 15 minutes (zero rebounds) and Wesley 17 minutes off the bench. And Tomlinson 27 minutes. And Odigie a starter?
Players (starters) cant get into a groove when being subbed out after 2 minutes.

No expert on MU that's for sure, but a few observations:
With player turnover, it can be difficult to hit upon the right mix and chemistry. Sydney have overloaded on talent, and even there are not invulnerable. Look around at the other teams, and see that many new guys are struggling to fit in.
So yes, getting Goulding and Blanchfield back will make a big difference, not just in terms of their contribution, but their familiarity.

Some of the players they chase, just leave me wondering.
Cedric Jackson has been one of the premier PG's in the NBL, but even last years it was apparent he was on the way down.

They had a good line-up last season. Don't know the individual stories, but its a pity they couldn't keep Kickett, Warwick, or Holt.

Haven't NZ beaten Melbourne in eight straight games now?

No it doesn't but if like the 99.9% of multi-year deals that are announced as such by their teams it would make no sense for MU to tell their fan base he only signed for 1 year when in fact he signed for 2 years.

Reading between the lines he probably got a 2 year agreement out of MU (media reports) but then decided to only sign for one year banking on himself to elevate his stock even higher this season to get an even better deal out of them or another team after this season.

Saying he's signed for the upcoming season doesn't necessarily mean it's a one year deal.

Yes, when first reported Cedric was going to sign with MU it was reported everywhere that it was 2 years.

If it was 2 years MU would've said so in the announcement it only said for this season.

MU would have a much better idea of how many years he signed for than the media would.

Herald Sun and Age said Jackson signed for 2. United website said signed for "upcoming season", so let's assume 1.

Goulding and DA were 2 years.

Paul, I'm not sure about your comment about not making decisions based on results whilst key players are out.

Adversity is a good test of your team's fabric and I see united splintering. It's funny because the results in and of themselves since cg43 went down aren't that bad. Close losses to Perth and new Zealand and an average performance against Illawarra. But the body language and performance have just given a very bad signal. Chemistry seems way off

If United dump Jackson, one of Adelaide or Illawarra should grab him and try to get him on track.

MU actually only signed Cedric for 1 year and I bet their thanking the basketball gods right now he didn't sign for more.

Maybe, but I don't think that has much influence on Jackson, Andersen, Moore and Wesley, so I doubt it.

Maybe, but I don't think that has much influence on Jackson, Andersen, Moore and Wesley, so I doubt it.

They certainly aren't looking like a team that's riding the storm at the moment. Jackson needs to be the leader and he seems disinterested.

I didn't mean their recruiting, I meant their attitude. That may have been the thing that finally cracked them.

Whatever happened, the incident between Andersen and Moore today wasn't a good look. Demopolous whinging about one of the most blatant travels ever wasn't a good look. In general, the entire team just seems to whinge a lot.

Could be Demoplous's influence, could be chemistry, could be any number of things, but they don't look like they're going to click, ever.

The physical spanking they got in the SFs certainly had a big impact on their recruiting. I'm interested to see how this team clicks, but we may not get the chance.

"I'm hearing that Cedric Jackson is gone for terrible attitude"

I was thinking there might be issues with Jackson. There looked to be tension between him and some of the players/DD. This is purely speculation but maybe there were problems when he was with the Breakers also. There were those rumours that were going around last year s who knows.

There's different degrees of brittle.

I wonder if the absolute spanking they got in the semis is having a disproportionate effect.

Melbourne got a great start, but they had a rough patch in the middle, were they brittle there's no way they bounce back, beat Perth and Illawarra four times (including two on the road) in quick succession and lock up top spot.

That's fair Paul. I assume part A is already the case- the players don't look like they're "getting the message".

But, If Shawn Dennis is not available and they can't find anyone else that is highly rated, then don't make a change just for the sake of it. In hindsight, in 14/15 they would've been better off with Anstey than Dmac. Cos 12/13 and 13/14 were more acceptable seasons than 14/15 imo, so perhaps they pulled the trigger without having a good option.

United was lucky to get minor prem last year, and results fell away as other teams worked out the team was fairly one dimensional. So maybe letting Vickerman go to Sydney was the real mistake here.

Boti was implying a few things about Jackson's attitude on Twitter pre-game.

Sorry mate, can't agree with that. They played 14 home, 14 away, four against every opponent

The only way I'd make a coaching move if I was Melbourne would be if their key players aren't happy and there is a high-quality replacement ready to go right now.

Sorry mate, can't agree with that. They played 14 home, 14 away, four against every opponent, and certainly didn't have talent better than any of the other top teams.

In fact if you look at the overall game and not just scoring they were probably behind Perth and NZ for talent.

I don't rate him highly as a coach, but he did coach Melbourne to the minor premiership last season

Be fucked.

DD is a bum. Even a casual observer would note the players aren't playing for him....

He will go. Hopefully tomorrow.

I don't rate him highly as a coach, but he did coach Melbourne to the minor premiership last season, so there is no reason they can't get rolling again this year under his watch.

Any GM that makes changes based on performances with key players out is out of their depth.

People have been calling for Demopoulos's head since half-way through last season; I don't think it can really be compared to Cairns and NZ.

I mean, we're talking about a guy who's got his starting point guard dragged twice in as many weeks by rushing onto the floor to help him up for no reason, tried to sub out a guy who was already on the bench, and done enough other things to make it quite clear these aren't simply lapses.

Between that and the body language of the entire team, he has to go.

Agree that they need to ride out the storm and even if DD remains I still expect them to be top 4.

But- you're spot on Manu. Gotta give your players extended time to allow them to find rhythm. DD is just SO reactive. Fix that, and put more variety and off ball movement into the offense and I could tolerate DD. Those two are fairly fatal weaknesses for a coach though. (Oh and his time outs never fill one with confidence)

I think Melbourne need to ride out the storm. They have the talent to put lots of wins together once everyone is back, and indeed had won three straight before injuries struck.

A few weeks ago people were saying NZ and Cairns needed to make changes, all of a sudden they are both on a roll. GMs need to operate at a level well above fans who ride the roller coaster through the season.

And consistent minutes for players. It's no secret that players need time on court to find a rhythm. Case in point Ced and Dev today when they played longer stints than usual.

Ahh lv, get over it dude, with the player's not plying. the team is crap, the whole United brand is. every team has injuries.

get over yourself please, it's the attitude the problem not the player's, just look back to the crocodiles last season. punched above there weight every game.

no heart no balls

Yeah I agree, wasn't actually being sarcastic. A rarity on this forum.


I do think that even without Goulding, Barlow and Blanchfield they should be winning more than not. It's just that they seem to have no plan to follow. Some Jackson/any big man high screens would be a start.

@Manu just saw your next post.

The point of all of this- Melbourne has been hit horribly by injuries this season. Therefore, it is just plain silly to write them off. Before the major injuries to Goulding, they were travelling along quite well.

Tai Wesley might be better than Majok (And so might Ramone Moore....), but it's irrelevant since they play different roles. The Wortho/Loughton thing is a case of two similar players who play the same role in the team, where the coach chose to have a much better player come off the bench for whatever reason.

Point is, Blanchfield is legitimately one of United's best 5 players. Of the group of 4 wing players at Melbourne, he's probably their best perimeter defender, and he's also a great catch and shoot outside shooter (amongst other things).

For those saying Barlow doesn't count, that's nonsensical. He trained over the off season, trained in the pre season and then played many pre season games. He was absolutely in DD and United's plans for this season, he is one of their 11 man roster and is on the payroll, and is reportedly coming back this week. Bennie Lewis (a much lesser player) has been his replacement so there is no doubt that United has suffered from his absence.

+1

Barlow is only a United player on paper. Can't even be in the discussion

TBH I think they need a complete cleanout. Coaching staff and players. The culture there is just awful; dropping a new coach in might have helped a year ago, but I think it's too late now.

But no, of course I get your point.

LV you can't even factor in Barlow seeing as he has never played a game of any significance for MU.

LV, I'd argue Tai Wesley is better than Majok

Again, let me preface this by saying that I do want DD to go (As I've said 50 times)

But, we can't lose perspective. The *facts* about this weekend are:

- Melbourne were missing Blanchfield, Goulding and Barlow. That's their 3 best outside shooters. Three quarters of their wing rotation. Most significantly, their leading scorer and best player from last season (Goulding).

- They played two full strength opponents. Woodside and Harris had injuries very late in each respective contest, but neither team was actually missing anyone.

- They lost in Overtime on Friday, and lost a very competitive game today when the Hawks took control with less than 3 minutes to go, grabbing a 9 point lead with 2 to go.

They're 3-6 in a league where only two teams have a positive win loss record. They're hardly done.

#Perspective.

focus on next season.

Put a fork in them, they're done like a Sunday roast

@ Manu that's just a semantic, technical point. We all know Wortho is a far superior player to Loughton at this point, even if Loughton was starting before being injured.

Another thought experiment- take the three best three point shooters out of any NBL team, and how many games do they win?

I'm not deflecting- DD has to go, I've said that so many times, I even drafted (but didnt send) a long email to Vince Crivelli 4 weeks ago on this.

But- I don't expect them to win games with a roster that's savaged this badly by injuries. I am frustrated by *how* it's happening, the lack of cohesion, the poor body language and apparent lack of buy in from the players, the boneheaded and absurd substitutions being made. So yes, DD takes the blame.

But- if you think they can't recover from 3-6 (or 3-7 if they lose to Sydney which they probably will) then you haven't spent enough time watching sport, and you're underestimating how much better they will be once they have, you know, three quarters of their wing rotation on the court.

I don't think MU's injury woes hold much weight. They're really only missing Goulding & Blanchfield as Barlow missed all of last season too and is only a role player these days anyway.

As per Cairns last night and the 36ers were missing their 2nd & 3rd best players and still almost beat the champs on their home court.

The main issues are the coaching from DD and the under-performing play of their three imports. Jackson especially has been bad and if DD gets fired I wouldn't be surprised if he gets axed too.

A lot of his glaring weaknesses were hidden well in the set up at the Breakers like being a poor shooter, poor shot selection, often trying to makes passes that aren't there, taking match ups too personally and sulking. In a team oriented veteran group with a strong coaching foundation a lot of that was kept in check but now without all that it's being exposed.

Ramone Moore too hasn't been much and DW has only today finally be given a chance to do something this season. If anything I think DW shows the most promise of their imports.

Cairns beat the league's best last night without their best import (arguably best player) and a starter

Take Harris out of Illawarra's line up and they'd be living much further up struggle street.

Andersen is a system guy, Jackson is having a poor season and is finding it hard getting to the hole and posting up when the team is missing 3 elite outside shooters and the floor isn't spaced. Goulding is the best scorer on the team and the guy who most regularly break them out of a funk when things aren't working well.

Putting aside DD for a minute- cos Ive been going on about that for ages.

Would any NBL team keep winning games if they lost

- Their top scorer
- Another starter
-A quality player off the bench (Barlow was starting for the whole 2014/15 season and looked ok in pre season).

Take Prather out of Perth's lineup and tell me how you think they'd be going. Randle and Adelaide likewise. (Well, we did see what happened there last season- from playoff certainty and many people rating their championship hopes, to missing the playoffs).

Yes, Goulding had a poor start to the season but he was getting better with every game and just starting to play himself into form when he went down.

Cedric Jackson is the problem, he's a post player that shoots 30% from the field and 45% from the free throw line. Taking every match up personal, but only on his offensive side, its killing them.

Their problems are internal. Firing DD could be the case, but hard for him when the players don't play for him. They wanted him gone after last season, Vince wanted him and won't get rid of him, its his bed he has to sleep in it.

Also, wasn't depth supposed be good for them, so they should be able to cover for those guys thats injured.

The league is close, they still my have a chance, but it will be tough with the loss to the hawks, drops them to last with sydney coming to town and Goulding & Blanchield still out.

The next 4 games at home may help.