Hoops

Wildcats v Sydney Kings - Thurs 17th 6:30pm

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"I like taking the bait. It's all good fun. I hang around here to see if I can learn anything. Occasionally, I do. And when I do, it's Often from you- if I will be willing to admit that for a second ;-)"


It's all good LV, I'm sure you know it's nothing personal, just a bit of fun.

So his articles are good, but his opinions on message boards aren't....great anon logic!

"Let's see if the Cats can do the same. I doubt it. Their only road win so far is a 3 point victory over United minus their best player."

You forgot to mention Barlow didn't play either

I'm not saying it's a coin flip, either. Some teams will be better at closing out close games. That's what good teams do.

...which would not make them unlucky in the context of their season.

Why not? In two of their losses, the result was up for grabs and could've gone either way in the last minute or two. That is your logic. Apply it to the Hawks and Breakers for just beating them (both games without Martin and Kenny) and its very easy to put a positive spin on it.

For them to be 8-1, almost every single close game would have to go their way. That would make them *extraordinarily* lucky.

No, they're not.

They are also very unlucky not to be 8-1, with a winning road record.

PS: I never said you couldn't talk "specifics". Talk about whatever details you want.

My comments stand as I state them- in this thread, my observations about Perth have been valid if you want to speak generally, or if you want to look at the specifics.

I mean if you want to talk "specifics" as far as Perth is concerned then they are *very* lucky to even be 6 and 3, since there have been loads of games where the result was u for grabs and could've gone either way in the last minute or two, and Perth has won most of those contests.

"They beat Perth minus Martin and Kenny..."

Oh, so we're allowed to look at specifics again? Man, make up your mind.

I said Perth beat them comfortably.

I forgot how close Illawarra got in the 4th (after Perth did lead comfortably for most of the contest!) That's a minor memory failure. Apologies for upsetting your sensibilities with my poor memory!!

(I like taking the bait. It's all good fun. I hang around here to see if I can learn anything. Occasionally, I do. And when I do, it's Often from you- if I will be willing to admit that for a second ;-) )

Keep taking the bait LV, unfortunately I don't anymore time for fishing today, but to summarise LV one more time, I'll tell everyone I'm good at betting to cover for getting my facts completely wrong.

(And Gamble responsibly, hoops.com.au doesnt condone gambling, etc etc etc)

Well since many of my comments form the basis of bets I put on, and I've cashed in some handy profits and am on track for much more, I'll take that one on board with a grain of salt. My sportsbet account seems to agree that I know a thing or two. But hey, everyone's welcome to their opinion.

(Disclaimer: NBL is pretty much the only thing I bet on, since I think I know it well)

Indeed they did. Harris had a three-ball to bring them within one with about 20 seconds to go.

I think most of your comments this season - and I've read at least bits and pieces of the majority of them - most of them have been rubbish.

And more importantly, compare it to the other 7 teams- who have mostly had serious injury woes- and Illawarra looks pretty bad in comparison. Can they turn it around? I do have faith in Bevo- great coach. We will see. I tend to think the defensive issues are here to stay though. So finals highly unlikely.

Did they really trail by 2 in Perth?

I seem to remember they made a bit of a comeback, but thought they got to within 5 or 6, I don't recall them getting to 2. (No need to be narky, I don't go check the play by play every time I post!)

But even so, Perth was leading that game all thru the 3rd and 4th, Illawarra played 5 minutes of good basketball. If they'd snatched it, they would've stolen an opportunistic win. For most of that game, Perth had them well and truly locked down.

Even if they had won that, that'd still be 3 games out of 5 vs full strength opponents where they got given a beating. As it stands, they've copped 3 beatings and had 2 close (ish, I'll pay that then..) losses. Not impressive in anyone's language- English or otherwise.

So leading by two points with 40 seconds to go is comfortable? I like the way you regularly redefine the English language on here, you should really be an anon!

In fact, Perth beat them quite comfortable, leading all the way even though they only beat them by 7 or so in the end.

So in other words, when the Hawks haven't even got close to *anyone who hasn't been decimated by injuries*.

Their D has been terrible.

They were very unconvincing in a home win vs United minus Goulding, Blanchfield and Barlow. They beat Perth minus Martin and Kenny and in Johnson's first game post exile, in another concerning performance.

And then they beat Adelaide minus Creek and Johnson. (I can't comment on this one as that's one of the few games I didn't see).

A lot of the time when they've played full strength opposition they've been made to look like fairly horrible- eg the first one vs Melbourne, vs Cairns and the game in Sydney.

So to sum up LV, most of Illawarra's nine games have been rubbish even though they've won four, lost to Sydney by 4 and trailed the Wildcats in Perth by 2 with 0:40 to play.

Their issue isn't they haven't played well, it's they have had good patches mixed with really poor patches in games that have cost them, especially defensively.

You got issues Lv

One impressive. No prizes for putting in a decent performance.

Most of them- and I've seen at least bits and pieces of the majority of their games- most of them have been rubbish.

So to summarise LV, the Hawks have had one decent game, as well as some other games that were decent too. ;-)

Yeah, as I said before, Illawarra have played one impressive game all season. That game being round 1.

Although Their second game- when they went down by 4 to Sydney, was decent too.

But no prizes from me for beating Adelaide sans Creek and Johnson. Randle can't do it on his own every night.

Just to sumarise LV, Randle has been completely dominant and Illawarra have been very very disappointing, as evidenced by Randle averaging 12ppg in two losses to the Hawks. ;-)

"Perth have been winning the close ones at home, and they've been losing them on the road."

But that win was against a heavily favoured United team so that must count for something...

Why do people insist on pointless arguments?
Arguing about who is "the best team" is puerile and usually the domain of sadsacks who just got proven wrong.
End of the day there will be four teams in the finals, and I expect both Sydney and Perth to be there. One will win the ring, they can lay claim to being the best team.

This was a great game, and in the end Perth won comfortably. Perth are tough to beat in Perth, harder for some teams than others.
I expect the return leg to also be a cracker, but you'd have to tip Sydney at home.

Why can't people just enjoy the season, instead of trying to crystal-ball the finish then mounting bitchy arguments to defend their predictions.

I originally thought NBL teams would figure him out a bit, and he wouldn't be quite as effective this year. But he's been even more dominant. Based on what's happened so far, you'd think he's good enough to ensure- almost on his own- that Adelaide at least gets to 10 or 11 wins (which, historically would mean they're very unlikely to finish last).

But Illawarra have just been very, very disappointing.

But- not as confident in the Illawarra prediction, I originally predicted (before round 1) they'd be top 4, but they've forced me to reconsider.

But I figure Adelaide has the trump card- Jerome Randle- so he's the thing that has me putting Adelaide ahead of them.

Yep. Very astute reading Paul.

Specifically- My prediction at this point would be:

-Sydney to finish on top, winning 18-20 games.
- No one else to win more than 17 games.
- Illawarra to finish bottom.

So just to sum up, LV has declared it's the Kings, daylight, six teams, daylight, then Illawarra.

You almost beat a firing NZ, whose Point guard had just gone down with an achilles injury and whose replacement hadn't arrived yet, you mean?

There's been loads of injuries this year, Perth's haven't been any worse than several other teams. (Cairns, Adelaide, Melbourne).

LV are you kidding me? We almost beat a firing new zealand without a legitimate PG and our MVP getting fouled out, then beat the league leaders with a less than 100% back up pg.

I personally agree as a cats fans, that we can be quite arrogant at times but seriously we back it up? finals every yr, 7 chips and after the circus we've had this yr with injuries, imports etc we are again sitting atop of the ladder.

It's pretty simple- Perth have been winning the close ones at home, and they've been losing them on the road.

I predicted that they wouldn't win many road games this year. So far I'm correct, since they're 1-2. Let's see if it stays that way.

But regardless of my specific prediction, the point right now is that Perth have had the easiest schedule to date- so even given their injury woes, 6-3 isn't all that impressive. If they can keep winning on the road, then I'll be impressed.

"and you want to hang Perth's hat on the fact that they made it close against them, despite being injury riddled? Come off it! "

But you labelled Perth's losing road record as a key factor, while ignoring the specifics of one of their losses, yet being specific about one of their wins! You can't pick and choose when you want to look at things from a high level, or when you want to delve in to what goes on in a game eg Perth beating United only when they were missing their best player.

Yeah but they were playing Illawarra- clearly the worst team to date- when you factor in health.

Even United minus Barlow, Blanchfield and Goulding stayed in their game in Wollongong until the last few minutes. The Hawks have literally played one impressive game all season, and you want to hang Perth's hat on the fact that they made it close against them, despite being injury riddled? Come off it!


[So which is it? They will be stacks better, or its too early to pass judgement? ]

Just to give you a bit of help here mate. Since you're clearly struggling here.

"They will be stacks better once they have a full team" or "it will be Kings vs daylight" - they are *predictions*.

It's too early to tell if my predictions will turn out to be correct. Hence, we can't pass judgement yet.

"Let's see if the Cats can do the same. I doubt it. Their only road win so far is a 3 point victory over United minus their best player."

And there is the cherry-picked stat I was waiting for. Perth lost one of those road games by 5 to the Hawks, without Martin and Kenny. IF (and we're allowed to use "if's", right?) they had at least one of those players, the result would have likely been different and they'd be the only team with a winning road record. Daylight!!!

"once they have their full team and once they click, they'll be stacks better than anyone else this season.

but it's far too early to pass any judgement at this point."

So which is it? They will be stacks better, or its too early to pass judgement?

Oh Sydney's been rubbish for the majority of their last 5 or so games. Absolutely right.

It took a hot streak from Cadee in the first, and some classy efforts from Lisch in the last to get out in front of United, but as a team they didn't even look better than their opponent- who was missing 3 starters. And they got burned in the last in Brissy, got locked down in Cairns- yeah they are totally struggling, no doubt about it. Gaze needs to change their offense up, they run the same plays and everyone knows what they're doing.

It'd really help if Powell, Cadee and Whittington recaptured early form, and they just aren't clicking as a team. They can't rely on Newley and Lisch' brilliance to carry them through a season.

The ball is in Gaze's court now, they need to introduce some extra spice to their offensive sets. And the effort factor needs to remain consistent instead of wax and wane- rebounding remains an issue.

But I still think they'll get through it and come out on top- although Casper Ware's signing in Melbourne gives some cause for optimism there, Perth just keeps on being Perth. Cairns, NZ, Bris all looking strong. It's fun to follow this season.

LV, the real test is Perth in Perth and they couldnt even win without Martin who is probably overall there best player in terms of impact, especially defensively.

They finally pulled out from United in the 4th qtr...but have a look at why...United missing arguably their 2 best players, didnt have their 3rd import and Lisch and Cadee shot lights out from deep.

FYI Sydney are still one of two teams who don't have a losing record away from home. They're 3-3, NZ is 2-2. Everyone else has a losing record.

Let's see if the Cats can do the same. I doubt it. Their only road win so far is a 3 point victory over United minus their best player.

"What factors will you cherry-pick in order to claim the second-placed Kings are clearly the best team?"

There's no cherry picking involved- even after last night, they have the best record (7-4 with 5 home, 6 away is easily more impressive than 6-3 with 6 home, 3 away), and the best +/-, with + 39 compared to Perth's + 25.

"Cracks are appearing in the Kings team - maybe anointing them the greatest time of all time after just six games was a bit premature."

SMH.

I said- once they have their full team and once they click, they'll be stacks better than anyone else this season.

They havent yet got their full team, and it's still early days so we can't judge whether they have clicked. In other words the jury is still out.

I'll be perfectly happy to admit I'm wrong when the time comes- but it's far too early to pass any judgement at this point.

I think the Kings imports issue is a very complex one.

Tempo has an insightful theory about the subject that he's been working on, which delves deep into the many facets of it. Hopefully we get to hear more about that one because as wild as some of his ideas are I think he really might be onto something.

Thats Luuke, you then have to ask yourself why were "pantsed" in effort areas last night?

Looking from the outside, they go to an arena of the defending champs, havent wont there the last 12 times or something like that, have the champ to establish themselves as the boss of the league.

This IMO stems from the fact that they think they are better than what they are.

They got beat by the Taipans missing there starting pg and there best player. They also needed a buzzer beater to beat the Taipans int he return leg.

They also got beat up pretty bad by the Bullets.

To me this is all an attitude issue, especially from there imports.

Let's see how they respond tomorrow before making sweeping statements about the team's attitude.
They've got top notch competitors in Lisch & Newley leading the team so I'm not expecting them to just wilt away.
(btw I'm not denying that they got pantsed in the effort areas last night, but that was 1 game)

Luuke, you dont think the Kings players believe in their own hype?

By half time Powell had been on the court for 11 minutes and didnt have 1 rebound to his name.

Thats just attitude.

"Kings just think ..."

No