Hoops

Joey's time is up.

I seem to recall; we did speak to some nblers during freeagency but 'They going to highest bidder.' Joey told us.
(and tovey took one shot one game. The trouble was it rolled around and went in , spoiling his nbl average, 1ppg.)

What defensive structure though?

Damo is not the best PG in the league

hahaha 'Cairns are one of the biggest spenders' - I like this FundingIsland kid, he's got some quality material.

Adelaide has 2 quality choices in local coaches; Shawn Dennis or Gordie McLeod who is helping in Cairns.

Dazz living in adelaide you will learn that Joey is joeys biggest fan. He didn't achieve anything because Ferguson has been a bust.

If you look at the 6's over the past few seasons, it appears to me that Joey has had specific goals and about how he wants his team. He underplayed those he didn't like, and couldn't wait to be rid of them.
Problem is that in the NBL, you don't get to be that choosey. There just aren't enough quality locals, especially when you're on a tight budget.
Even with 3 imports, you need to hang onto the good locals, and build your squad around them.
Damo is not the best PG in the league, but he's one of the best locals. So we stick with him, and look for an SG as our import. I'd put Gisbson in a similar category, but it seems Joey had little interest in using him properly, and no interest in keeping him around. Sure, he was probably overpaid and likely to go home to Brisbane, but I reckon Joey didn't try real hard.

The Crazy thing is that Joey still reckons he pulled off some deal of the century in landing Ferguson. Blabbing some crap about how all the other coaches want to know how he did it. Yeah sure Joey, all the other teams are just queuing up to waste an import spot on some kid who's completely unprepared for professional ball.

@ Anonymous

Yes, that's exactly what i said and i don't care. You haven't said anything interesting against my suggestion besides singling out Drmic so i'm not too bothered that you don't like it.

Master Chief, did you say run and gun? That line-up would assume Drmic to be an athlete, which he is yet to prove in every facet of the game from rebounding contests to pushing the ball, to getting back on D and much more. Do I think he is underdone? maybe, but right now, he is performing below expectations. (I'm glad you don't coach)

Fundingisland, Cairns didn't actually get rid of Sobey, in fact they offered him a two year deal, just less than the Adelaide three year deal.
Deng is not a budget player, in fact his wage is close to Drmic's.

The problem is people mixing opinions with facts, and the fact is the 36ers are not paying 500K for Ferg either.

Adelaide losing Creek, who would dominate as proven early in the season, plus some underperforming players, makes things compounded/look worse. Joey is a good coach, and when they beat Brisbane up there last time, the same people were saying how good things were. Ease up, let the season progress!!!

Teys is probably our only defender.... He just needs to stop shooting three point shots

Funds, competing with the big spenders, trading youth for experience etc are all important considerations but none of those things stop Adelaide from being a bit more competent in some areas. Especially at the defensive end where it seems they've learnt nothing about this league over the last few seasons.

Again, it's not losing. This isn't an irrational slur because of a couple of ugly games. I think people are beginning to see the cracks in Joey's coaching and are well reasoned to challenge a few things about what it is the team is trying to achieve this season.

Besides Deng and Ferguson, Adelaide are not really that young. Drmic and Jacobsen are inexperienced at the pro level but both are well seasoned from college careers and are well into their twenties. Besides that we have an experienced core group of Creek, Randle, Johnson and Teys.

I said in another thread that i wan't to see Adelaide truly run and gun with this: Randle-Drmic-Ferguson-Creek-Jacobsen

Sobey's demotion isn't performance based but more so to steady the second unit as a bench scorer and ball handler. I think him and Johnson could work well together. I don't like the balance of the current rotation.

Joey has found a real talent in Teys.
Why else would he start him EVERY week infront of players who WILL develop with more minutes/exposure/confidence.
Teys isn't a climber.

You'd consider Burston and Tragardh to be solid in 2016/17? Really?

Even Walker is more about athleticism, which isn't really the problem of the 36ers. In hindsight, Walker would have been nice but if the 36ers are faced with the situation of someone like Walker vs Collegiate potential, tbh collegiate potential is worth the risk. I don't think Walker would have us with any more wins than we have now.

@KET: "What experienced players? With what solid resumes?

Where are these magical experienced players who are within our affordability? Or is this an assertion which everyone. Seems. To. Be. Making. and yet can't understand the concept of less money in a competitive world = choice of worse players."

Burston, Tragardh, Walker, to name a few of the forwards on offer. I'm happy to admit that the guard options are fewer and further between in terms of locals, however there were/are plenty of import options the 36ers could have utilised in place of Ferguson, whom Joey wanted, and got. And whom he has to deal with the fact that he can't get anything out of.

Joey got the team he got, because he got the team he wanted. He could have chosen experienced players with solid resumes, and he chose to go with youth.

Given how much talk there is about Ferguson getting $500K

@Fundingsland:
"You think its silly when its a fact. You can chose to deal with that information however you like.

The fact remains that Adelaide are in the bottom 2 of league spend. Do you think that there maybe some correlation between the spend on talent and their performance."

If it's a fact that three Kings players are being paid more than the entire Adelaide roster, then you must have information that nobody else here does. If so, cough it up. If you don't have that information, then it's not a fact, and your opinion is nothing more than an opinion.

The same applies to your assertion about Adelaide being in the bottom 2 in spending. Show us the information you have, and tell us where you got it, or admit you're making it up as you go along.

Joey got the team he got, because he got the team he wanted. He could have chosen experienced players with solid resumes, and he chose to go with youth. Now he's paying the price, because he has a team that doesn't know how to co-ordinate itself on the court. That's because they are inexperienced and Joey can't coach them to do what he wants.

You think the 36ers can "beat anyone on the night?" They got thrashed by the Bullets, playing without Cam Bairstow, who is a better forward than anyone(with the possible exception of DJ) on the 36ers roster. Once Randle is owned by someone the way that Craig owned him in that game, the 36ers are shut down.

In terms of the close games the 36ers have lost, 'woulda, shoulda, coulda'. They didn't. If Cairns had beaten Sydney and Perth, two games they lost on buzzer beaters, they would be 6 and 4, sitting 3rd on the ladder. They didn't, so they're not. Don't make your assertions about the 36ers on games they could have won. It doesn't work that way.

The 36ers have a young crew, who need a coach with the skills to get them into places where they can use their skills. Joey has shown he can't do that, so the premise of the OP has been justified. Joey's time is up.

QED.

I can't believe the Taipans are one of the biggest spenders. Yes they would have had to shell out to lure Jawai back but probably a bit of govt ass there but their imports would all be cheapies and they just don't have a single star player on their roster.

Ha ha ha

thats good stuff

do go on

Cairns are one of the top spenders? Get real, mate, we're a community owned club, with a bloody good coach.

^ wrong

You think its silly when its a fact. You can chose to deal with that information however you like.

The fact remains that Adelaide are in the bottom 2 of league spend. Do you think that there maybe some correlation between the spend on talent and their performance.

Again this is the team Joey ended up with, not the team he preferred.

As a 36er fan you can chose to support the team that is playing well enough to beat anyone on the night or you can yearn for the glory days when the 36ers were the team disregarding the salary cap.

Cairns are one of the bigger spenders not top 3 but up there.

Joey gets the Yankie junkette ever year and comes up with not very good players.

@Fundingsland, it may be true that Melbourne and Sydney are outspending Adelaide 2:1. It may even be possible that it's more than that. Given how much talk there is about Ferguson getting $500K, I think it's silly to say that three Sydney players are being paid more than all of the 36ers roster.

In any case, that leaves another five teams in the league that are not outspending Adelaide by that amount, and more than likely there are two teams that are not outspending them at all (Cairns and Illawarra), or if they are, by a handful of scheckels, not tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The fact that remains is that Joey Wright has not done enough to make the most of a roster he is very largely responsible for putting together. I doubt there are many basketball followers who were not surprised that Adelaide did not invest in at least one or two veteran players to pad out their roster.

It's all very well to say they have a young team of mid-20-something players who will form the core of a great team in a few years' time; the likelihood of all, or even most, of Sobey, Creek, Drmic, Deng, and Hodgson (Doyle?) being together beyond the next two seasons is remote, at best. Basketball is too transient a sport to be sacrificing a season for the hope of a great team in three or four seasons' time. Joey has been around long enough to know this, and he had two choices this year: be a good GM and get some talent that could work with the younger guys, or be a great coach and get the young guys working together.

He chose the latter and has failed.

@Master Chief. Thank you so very much. I'm very impressed.

Melbourne and Sydney are spending almost double what Adelaide are.

Sydney have 3 players alone earning more than the entire 36ers roster

I expected them to be the spooners. And that was with Creek playing, and with Drmic and Ferguson scoring reasonably well!

I wouldn't be surprised if their record slipped further, but at this point given expectations I don't think it's that abysmal. They almost got Perth in Perth - that shows something.

Coach Wright may consider coaching defame instead of baiting a better team in Twitter. Such a bitch, and to dog a team he won a title with. Odd

Out of interest, what are people expecting from a club with little money and young talent who haven't played professional basketball before?

A team of experienced border-line NBA talent who know how to defend, don't have lapses in concentration, aren't out muscled and can react and shoot with the speed of the game?

There's a real blame game: "why did you choose these players" even though lets be honest there aren't exactly better affordable alternatives around (particularly Aussies)

"Joey can't coach because his players can't defend, can't shoot, always make mistakes" as if the 4 rookies in the side are going to play like they've been professionals for a decade, our captain is injured and the besides DJ the others aren't exactly the quality being actively sought by other clubs

We're going to look bad in some games, really really bad. Sometimes we'll have confidence and Randle will slay it and we'll win - but tempered pragmatic expectations would suggest 3-6 is about par.

Joey has his work cut out, and maybe should put away that pressing defence. I guess time will tell whether they develop through the season and attempt to adapt.

Why do I feel like Joey has sent someone in to bat for him on here?

@ Fundingsland

Yes of course i do. Why wouldn't i want to see a promising young signing be better utilised? How else do you get a guy going? Certainly not with sporadic minutes and instructions to just run from side to side.

Look, i'm not claiming to be a coach and don't assume it's easy but surely you can do a bit better than that in response.

Yes, but that still doesn't mean it was the clubs only option. I'm not saying i agree or disagree with the experiment but it certainly wasn't their only option. They chose to go down that path. Was Joey implying that he would cut Ferguson or EJ after all that, if he had the power to do so? That's laughable after all the talk about TF if that is indeed what he meant. I won't say it was too early though.

Yes, but he is responsible for the way his team performs regardless. The criticism is more targeted towards style and direction more so than W/L column.

Who said i have a problem with the team? I was extremely excited about seeing how they'd go and still am. I 've accepted for a long time that Adelaide are no longer an NBL power and will have a harder time competing. It's got nothing to do with any reasonable question marks people are starting to raise about Joey's coaching.

He is a poor coach. Break this stuff down all you want but he finally has a team that needs genuine coaching and he can't do it. No excuses at this level.

If guys are shooting sub 25% on 3's you think that warrants running special plays?

Probably why you aren't a coach

Ferguson is being subsidised so that is why he is signed. The money the 36ers are putting into him would not equal that of an import that meets fan expectations.

I have never said Joey is a good or bad coach, I am saying that he isn't responsible for the calibre of player putting on a 36ers singlet this season. That is defined by the budget which is controlled by the owners.

If you have a beef about the quality of players the 36ers have signed that is an ownership issue not a coaching one.

It might sound cynical but I always assumed the plan this season after crapping out with the old roster last season was retain Randle at all costs for his excitement bums on seats factor and then just stick a cheap young team around him.

They might not win many games but at least in Joey's run & gun style they will be exciting to watch and keep the fans coming in and in the process hoping a few of the young guys would stick around longer term and take discounts once they mature.

@ Fundingsland

That still doesn't mean the coaching hasn't been poor does it?

Hang on a minute. So you're saying that the reason they obtained Ferguson is because they had their backs against the wall and couldn't afford any other mature age import in that position that probably would've been of more service? Because from what i understand, Ferguson wasn't cheap and Adelaide worked hard to make it happen. Although i do concede the motive wasn't entirely on performance expectation.

Jacobsen has been fine and it's irrelevant how expensive he is given he came from the summer league where many quality guys are happy to take their first pro offer. So you don't need to spend huge to get a guy like Jacobsen anyway.

Why should they run more plays for three point shooters like Drmic and Ferguson? Do i need to answer that?

@Master Chief

The point is that a lot of people are hanging Joey as its the team that he recruited. I am suggesting that there is a big difference between the team Joey coaches and the team he would like to have had he a big enough budget.

This budget team has knowcked of Melbourne in Melbourne, Brisbane in Brisbane and was a bad ref call away from a W in Perth. That doesn't happen by accident or through magic fairy dust.

Do you think Joey would rather sign an unproven kid than a known brand name import? No of course not.

Jacobsen was signed because he was the best that could be found with the money that was available.

Drmic is shooting 43% from the free throw line. That has NOTHING to do with Joey. 26% from 3 as well. Yes you can argue that he has had nothing drawn up for him but when he can't hit wide open shots consistently as yet, why would a coach run a play for that outcome.

It seems historically that a lot of NBL coaches have struggled more with GM decisions rather then coaching the team.

Vince having the GM role at United has helped DD last.

Fundingsland, so what? There's no point running over alternatives or what Joey would prefer if he had the funds to do so. It sounds like they went out of their way to sign Ferguson anyway so who's responsibility is it when gambles like that don't work out? Certainly not Terrance Ferguson's.

Jacobsen brings exactly what Joey said he was searching for, so again we can't now say that we need more talent in that position because Joey is struggling to come up with a way to at least get this team playing competitive.

Drmic has not been a bust and people should stop saying it. Shooters like Drmic and Ferguson have had absolutely nothing designed for them to get going. Yes, understanding where to be and when to be a little bit more selfish is something a player is responsible for but once again, who is ultimately responsible for it?

I'm not worried about losing, i'm more worried about the dysfunction and the lack of offensive and defensive understanding that Joey has. I've been saying it for years, Joey Wright is not a very good coach and has gradually been exposed. I don't think Adelaide and Joey are made for each other.

Unfortunately for Joey Wright, in sport we compare. And Shawn Dennis was able to get more out of a cheaper roster in Townsville that showed heart last season than what adelaide have shown. And again this is more a case of spending the money the wrong way, it's not that Randle dj etc are not being paid very well, they are just being paid too much.

You need three things**

Have to agree with Fundingsland.

With that said, I think Joey needs to coach in *dare I say it* a more Marty Clarke X's and O's way instead of letting players improvise on the court and not bother with much system, structure or defence.

Yeah, but I mean given all the circumstances, what do you do?

It's easy to point out where things have gone wrong and play blame game if we conveniently deny clear constraints.

You need two things:
#1 Availability of players
#2 Finances to pay for players
#3 Players willing to move to Adelaide

If you don't have much of #2, you'll lose out on any decent #1s against other clubs anyway. #3 might require a fair bit more of #2 to get #1.

Filtering that down, how many Australians are there to recruit that are older and above SEABL standard?

Imports recruited from abroad without a proven track record in the NBL have a tendency of being inconsistent and tough to fit in. 36ers have had a problem of picking them for over a decade. Mix that in with not much in the way of resources, and the pool gets harder to pick from.


Given these constraints, it's not the worst idea to go with development or at least something that might be entertaining and pay some dividends in the future.

(36ers aren't paying Fergusn $500k, and Drmic isn't on a superstars salary)

There is potential in this team, *if we can keep it* - Creek 24, Hodgson 25, Sobey 26 - I think they each can produce significant improvement over the next few seasons. Johnson at 28 should still be capable of producing during that period. Along with hopeful improvement from Drmic and Deng and 24 and 23... it might pay off a little, at least under the 36ers circumstances in terms of resources.

I'm not enamoured by the 36ers losing, but the rest of the league is significantly stronger and capable of tying up quality Australians AND imports. It's good for the league and I accept that - i'm just hopeful Adelaide receives some resources to improve and find payoff in its young squad over the next few years.

People should acknowledge there is a big difference between the team that Joey has recruited and the team he would have recruited if he had the budget to do so

The results that are being seen are a result of the budget he is forced to work with.

If he could cut and upgrade Ferguson he would

If he could have recruited Newley he would have

If he could upgrade Jacobsen he would have

If he could have kept Petrie he would have

If he could have kept Cadee he would have

Drmic has been a bust to date but was highly coveted coming out of college, no one could have predicted his performance.

Deng is a budget signing

Sobey was discarded by Cairns and look what Joey has done with him

If you are going to measure Joey , measure him on decisions that are solely his. Don't measure him on decisions that are made based on the restrictions that he has had placed upon him.

I think he recruited himself into a corner, rolling the dice on too many recruits. Possibly expected more from Ferguson, Drmic and Deng? Had a young roster and then added two young imports. IMO, this was the off-season to make sure one of your imports was a stud, one was reliable and proven in the NBL (Craig, Beal, etc), and one was a gamble.

And if Ferguson is underdone but their hands are tied on the contract, they can't replace Creek temporarily or upgrade to fit need. Creek's the biggest fighter in that team.

As it happens, Joey's got one stud, two gambles and then a couple more gambles in Drmic and Deng on top of that.

Nothing wrong with fans wanting their team to improve, and asking questions.

I'd sack him just for keeping Teys on the roster.

But Joey plays such a fast paced style he thinks he can catch back up with it. A great manager of vets, capable of keeping egos in check, but poor tactical coach which younger less established players require as guidance. He has been clearly exposed for his lack of coaching skill this season. Props for keeping all those egos in check at Brisbane but he doesn't have the talent card to work with anymore.

The league and basketball industry are a lot smarter these days. The game has gone past Joey.

What zodiac said! Joey should be embarrassed with how poor a job he has done of developing these kids. Fergusons game has gone nowhere, I feel for him the most. Someone sold him on something that was never actually going to eventuate.

I'm not advocating Joey's dismissal as he's contracted until 2019 and if the club is as hard up financially as everyone says it is there is probably next to no chance he's going anytime soon but in all the years I've seen him coach at the Bullets, Blaze & 36ers and seen Shawn Dennis coach at the Falcons & Crocs, Dennis showed more coaching ability last season alone with the Crocs than anything Joey has ever shown.

With what Shawn Dennis had to work with last season financially and all the drama going on behind the scenes with the club always on the brink of folding during his tenure he not only rightly deserved the NBL's COTY award last season they should've given the bloke two of them.

He did a better than good job getting the best out of absolute garbage. Imagine what he could do with a team of young potential and a legit can score point guard. Joey has lost them but maybe someone like Dennis could find them!