Hoops

NY Times and Joey on Ferguson

Thought he was signed with Arizona , later, signed with UA while taking the overseas route to the NBA...

He signed the deal when he announced he wouldnt be going to school. He was able to because he had no intention of going to school. He wasnt on the 36ers yet. How hard is this to comprehend? Hes been on a list of potential NBA calibre players for a long time and the moment he was eligible to sign a deal he did. Cmon people it isnt hard to understand how this all works.

What are you talking about Dazz? Most of us have addressed that point.

Infact I made the point that it might actually go hand in hand

And yet again, so many people arguing in circles and missing the point.

The soft cap is meant to be assessed against the deemed salaries, as determined by an independent committee. So a team that thinks they've got a bargain, may still find itself over the cap.
Debates about whether endorsements or other stuff should be included, and presumably why the players will be independently valued. It all comes down to how these salaries are assessed.

Seems unlikely you can have UA sponsorship at highschool or college , so unlikely it came prior to signing with 36ers

I don't think that the endorsement deal should be counted towards the salary cap but its fair to say the Sixers have indirectly benefited from that deal being in place.

Zodiac are you understanding this yet? A players sponsorship is 100% independent of his playing contract.

UA would still be paying him even if he didnt play because they have made an investment in him as a future NBA player.

He could of sat out and just kept training on his own until he was NBA draft eligible and they would of paid him. The fact is his agent found him a situation which enabled him to earn MORE money by playing in the NBL.

I dont see how this is hard to understand.

The scenario where players play for teams for nothing is also not an issue. Every player has a value when they come into the league. This value is determined by the NBL. The teams have to pay them at what they are valued or higher if they want. A player cant just sign for $10k if his value is determined to be higher. Its not that simple. Think of the salary cap as anew take on the old Points system.

The problem is, you think Paul's scenario #1 is occurring because you think UA are endorsing Ferguson on the basis of him playing for the 36ers. As i've addressed, without a doubt that's not the basis for UA endorsing him.

Now, if scenario #1 was occurring, that would be an absolute screw up by the 36ers. It would be shooting ourselves in the foot of the highest order.

I'm not ruling out the 36ers being that stupid, but it would really be absurd and i'm not the kind of person who naturally assumes the absurd possibility has taken place over the rational possibility.

Paul's scenario #2 is how any rational minded lawyers would have done it particularly given the intentions of UA. Ferguson would have had a playing contract with the 36ers of $x, a UA endorsement of $x in a different contract and an undies company endorsement of $x in a different contract. They are reported to be around $500k combined. Combined in the context was reported as multiple contracts not one.

Ofcourse there's also the obvious reasons why UA has a separate contract with him: ie, it's a multi-year deal, the 36ers contract is a single year deal.

So all private sponsors should be counted against the salary cap? Thats retarded.

Zodiac, I don't think you're very familiar with the concept of contracts. That, combined with adding some ideas bordering on absurdity isn't helping your cause either.

So if he told UA "You know what I think I'm just going to take a year off this year" I would bet that contract would be torn up quick smart so it would have something to do with the 36ers (or whatever team it was) and I'd go further to suggest there would've been direct contact between UA and the 36ers over the finer details i.e. no cut clause.

Basically been invisible in the games I've seen.

17 mins pg, 5 ppg

Are they not running enough plays for this guy or what. 5 shot attempts a game. Been pretty underwhelming.

Wright is a flog.

I am waiting for you to provide your proof. You seem to know a lot more than other people.

So you can't back it up then. Good talk.

I don't have to prove anything, you are the one calling me out so back your position up

On another note , google is your friend

Zodiac, are you saying UA are paying for some of his contract with the 36ers? If that is the case you are correct, it would count under the cap.

However, if he has a playing contract with the 36ers, and a separate endorsement contract with UA that wasn't brokered by the 36ers then it won't count under the cap.

Um, you were the one who said one came before the other. How about you back up what you said with proof?

so you have seen the contracts and know his agent?

I look forward to you giving us the date of when UA contacted Ferguson and the date that he signed to the 36ers

"The UA deal for Ferguson pre existed any contract Ferguson had with the 36ers"

No it didn't. He signed with the Sixers before his UA endorsement deal

The UA deal for Ferguson pre existed any contract Ferguson had with the 36ers

Ferguson was signed to UA just as Nike signs athletes

Lebron's Nike contract doesn't count towards the Cavs salary as its not salary it is personal sponsorship

Elvis Presley made millions of dollars last year from record sales and he is dead. So it is possible to have income despite not doing anything to earn it. UA would be banking Ferguson for the future and a few 000k to them on that punt isnt a big deal

Remember Exum had a shoe deal before declaring as well and he "could'nt " play anywhere

Has Joey improved Ferguson at all? This will hardly be attractive of this keeps up

KET,

This will be my last post on the subject otherwise it will continue going around in circles.

Ferguson would be getting $x figure from the 36ers. That's his full contract.

Ferguson would also be getting $x figure from other endorsements, that's an entirely different contract which has absolutely nothing to do with the 36ers.

UA aren't paying the 36ers. UA aren't paying Ferguson on behalf of the 36ers. UA aren't sponsorsing the 36ers.

UA and the 36ers have nothing to do with each other.

twenty four,

Of course but at the same time no way UA would be paying him a cent this year if he decided not to play anywhere this season and just took a year off. Even if they had to pay overs the following year when he gets drafted so be it but I have no doubt his UA money is conditional on him playing somewhere not Adelaide specifically.

It's just 'good fortune' on the 36ers part that they're only paying a portion of his contract but whatever they're paying is too much really.

On your last point I don't think that needs to be proved at all. It's irrelevant. What if say Melbourne United are only paying a portion of David Andersen's big money deal and a sponsor (his or the teams should be irrelevant) is paying the vast majority of it? What if MU were able to lure another big sponsor to look after Goulding's contract? $1 million worth of talent they might only be paying say $300K of it. That should be against the rules. I know it goes on it always has but doesn't mean it's right.

Why even bother having a salary cap a big city team like Melb or Sydney is always going to be able to attract infinite more possibilities for big money sponsors than an Adelaide or even a Cairns or Illawarra. If you allow all that to go on (which it does and always has to some degree) it debases the whole concept of trying to create an even playing field.

I don't really get why this is so hard to understand? Paul, Isaac, help me out with explaining it?

If we're paying his full contract it means Under Armour's sponsorship is with the 36ers and thus proves my point.

So now the 36ers aren't paying his contract? You've been getting very defensive about this point but the facts are he's being paid $500K to play for us this season and it should fully count against the cap.

To begin with, we're not paying a "portion" of his contract, we're paying his full contract.

The salary cap may see his value differently - but until we have a clue how the NBL will work it, we need to stop putting all the figures together pretending the 36ers are paying $500k to Ferguson. They're not. They may be overpaying, but not to that extent.

Taking a huge risk in signing a high school kid which is why we're only paying a portion of his contract.

I don't think it's obvious at all. The deal is about this kid's future more than the now, companies are getting in early. Whether he was playing in Adelaide or elsewhere is unlikely to be relevant to them.

He wouldn't have an endorsement deal if he wasn't playing somewhere. I think it's pretty obvious the endorsement deal is tied up with the 36ers to some degree as we're taking a huge risk in signing a high school kid which is why we're only paying a portion of his contract.

Not too many teams out there would take the risk the 36ers just have especially assuming a no cut clause in the contract too.

It was always a bad idea for any team that is meant to care about winning games he was never going to produce regular import numbers and the 36ers should've spent their money more wisely but this looks more like Joey doing favours for a mate or two.

He may have signed his endorsement deal prior to signing with the 36ers.

IMO players commercial deals shouldn't count against the cap if it can be shown the deal is independent from the club or the business in question is genuinely engaging the player to promote their brand.

If you do it otherwise, you are putting a restriction on players' ability to sign independent commercial deals, which probably isn't legal, and is a deterrent to NBL clubs signing quality talent, which the league wouldn't want to hinder.

I take your point KET, but where do you draw the line?
And besides, what it is supposed to come down to, is an independent assessment. How does that even work?

He is on $400k. But still same queries apply. Adelaide have tried to be cute here and work the system but if this comes back to bite with the output they have gotten by god that could put a fork in the club!

Last word is redundant...

This is new territory, because I don't think NBL players have any genuine endorsement deals like this?

A player receiving a contribution from a sponsor or entity generally with an interest to assist a club pay for a player, that should be part of the cap.

For example: Let's say Vilis decides to help 36ers pay for some of Randle's pay packet (he might do some adverts on TV for Vilis), but if he joined another club instead - Vilis wouldn't pay him.

In contrast....

A player having an endorsement deal which is independent of the club should not go towards the salary cap.

For example, if Ferguson went to Melbourne or Sydney or wherever, he would still have his paypacket from UA regardless.

Just another big question mark. We have to wait and see how the NBL actually implements this. It's a freakin minefield, and I really have no idea.
If one of the stars of the league was getting say a salary package of $100k, and $400k in endorsements from a team sponsor, we'd have no problem saying that should be assessed at $500k. But is that fair for an under-performing kid like Ferguson?

If Ferguson's $500K counts against the cap clearly they would be well over it. It shouldn't make any difference if the Sixers are only paying a portion of it the lot should count against the cap.

$800K+ on Randle & Ferguson right there, the only question is how much luxury tax they should have to pay.

Actually, this COULD be a huge problem for the 6's.

He should see if there are any options in SEABL , to match his ability

Actually, this COULD be a huge problem for the 6's.
The Soft Cap calculations are supposed to be based on deemed salary. If he is making all that money from endorsements, what are the NBL going to deem his salary to be?

Whilst I don't know enough to say whether this is the right move for Ferguson, it does occur to me that a lot of potentially talented young guys are wasting the start of their careers playing college ball.
The irony is, that if they are going to make it to the NBA, and get big $ endorsements, its not such a big deal. But if you are going to spend what's left of your career playing in secondary leagues, for a lot less money, then those 4 years could have been worth a decent amount.

Yeah it's very odd scenario. Problem is no point someone else paying for your import if your import is shit. Guess they figured if he had worked out, was a short cut. No short cuts in good business though. What makes it more cringe worthy is how much they marketed this kid before he had even made a shot.

He is making $400k this season. The 36ers are paying a small portion of this and for good reason, he is shit. Not NBL import quality for a team that needs a second decent import so badly.

36ers aren't paying him anywhere near $500k lol. As has been said many many times, he has deals with Under Armor and some undies company. UA would be giving him a significant $$$ portion

sorry didn't see that :(

Anyone know anything about the teams in Mens Championship grade?