Hoops

The Shuffle Sucks

It takes a 100% by in and understanding from all players, that's not looks like is going on at the kings, could be a reason that tommy seems to be getting less time.

Looks like well executed motion style offense with superior athletes and highly skilled shooters who have been well drilled to me.

Interesting way to explain it Very Old. I was chuckling a bit reading that, maybe you didn't intend to but somehow it came across as funny. However, you are correct in pointing out how it doesn't fit the Kings if you run it in its original form.

There have been several incarnations of the shuffle modified to work with new rules and even with the change in the types of basketball players now compared to the 60s. Players all over the world are taller, much quicker and more athletic where compared to the old days, the available space in court has somehow shrunk. The players can cover more areas defensively, they move up and down so much faster in fewer paces.

Someone kindly posted a shuffle type offense that has been modified and used recently in a 24 sec clock situation by the San Antonio Spurs.

Didn't Jordan play SG?

IMHO scoring point guards only work in the shuffle if they work from a catch and shoot. else their drives and shots don't get rebounded well, and the other players have to stand a watch. the shuffle is ball and player continual movement , players without the ball, and the ball moving through the air.

Drive and dish will work, but that's about it.

gaze played shooting guard, as did copeland as a 2/3.

Purchase/Giddey played the point guard 1/2 court passing role when required and mad dog ray Gordon dribbled the ball when required and brought the ball up against pressure. but mostly Melbourne just passed the ball up in a press breaker.

Melbourne did not run a classic point guard position, when you have 6'6" picking up the dribble and passing to 6'6" guys when pressured by guards generally well less than 6'2", there's not much problem when that is what your team does week in week out, as opposed to suddenly losing the point guards who usually took that role, through fouls or injuries ( like Perth / NZ this year).

remember the shuffle was what MJ playee for his whole college career, and the famous joke was that "the only person who could keep MJ below 20 points a game was Dean Smith"

Wonder which one of the Kings players posted that^^
haha

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/ShuffleOffense.html

Lindsey Gaze visited dean smith in the 1960's and just worshiped the entire program , Gaze spent weeks just absorbing everything he could about Smith's approach and basically became his #1 disciple.

http://www.betterbasketballcoaching.com/Basketball-Shuffle-Offense.html

" the play has lots of picks and cuts and works best when the movement and passing is crisp."

-this is not the kings

"It's a good basketball play that works well against man to man defense, and if your players are on their toes and ready to move when they are supposed to, it will open up lots of scoring opportunities for them."

-still not the kings - and it applies to a 25/30/35 second shot clock that will rest to 25/30/35 seconds on defensive violations - todays NBL is very very different

" it isn't as simple - players really need to understand where they are moving to and when they need to move if this is to work well. I like simple plays - the less they need to think when they are on the court, the less opportunity for my players to screw up."

- the smart kings players are the ones who actually dribble the ball while being smart - except for Newley

"But The Basketball Shuffle Offense is a great play if you have a team stacked with smaller, quicker players. Teams like this often have problems competing against larger teams."
- not the kings

The shuffle is not kind to a scoring point guard, or slower, taller and bigger players - and scoring point guards are not kind for the shuffle

I have just always preferred the coaching to fit the talent, not trying to find players that fit the system, that's all...

That's why gaze should be assistant and let vickerman coach.

if they don't run the shuffle then Gaze knows nothing else and then they know nothing else.

So, you have taken my comment as a totally negative one Paul?

Whatthe = Maric

jumpshot, you are over the top with your negative comments.

Its hard to run the system for an entirely new team, the reason it was successful for Melbourne back in the day was because they always had a core group and could hide new players until they got used to it. If run correctly its very effective but until you know the reads players tend to be robots and defence can cheat big time.
Probably too late to change the system and just put out a no structure offence. Next year they will have to make a decision to persist with it and hope guys start to get it or scrap it and run something new. But not too long ago everyone was saying it was daylight between the kings and second, is it the case of better scouting or players losing confidence in the system.

They are getting open shots from the offence. Just not dropping. Need to recruit players that can drive to the basket, and can shoot from anywhere on the court. Lisch has been woeful 1/14. Cadee - only consistent from the 3. Newley only consistent on the drive. Maric should be benched. Whittington only consistent from the 3. Does anyone know how to do pull up jumpshot anymore?

I'm not a fan of the shuffle at all and agree that it's a bad fit. It takes so long to get it going that I'm shocked the Kings aren't full-court pressed every single possession to take a valuable couple of seconds off the clock.

Having said that, it's the other end of the court that we've REALLY been struggling. Lisch and co. have generated enough offense to win us games, we just aren't getting back-to-back stops. Early on we had Whittington generating a lot on D but he seems to have toned his aggression down a bit to cut down on his fouls, which has been a double-edged sword.

I remember when Bradtke first went to the Tigers - he was so under utilised in the shuffle, it was frustrating. But then Lindsay Gaze made some tweaks and there were more post-up opportunities inserted, worked really well.

True it's a complex offense that can break down without competent/comfortable players, but with a few adjustments it's no worse than any other patterned type of offense. Probably just needs Drewey to get a bit more experience and learn to adjust to changing circumstances.

I wonder what these former NBA and international recruits think when the come here and play with a team like the Kings, 'We are running The Shuffle, really, okay then?'...

good points, the fact is in a professional league a new coach needs to fit/adapt their offence to the players they have, then perhaps recruit in later seasons.

as a new coach drew is not doing badly at times, but the offensive structure he is implementing is not helping.

I always thought that the shuffle took so much concentration, that the transition into defence was often slow and uneven in respect to the group of 5 on the floor.

The shuffle with a 24 seconds clock needs all 5 players to be so familiar with its variations to execute the right one quickly, otherwise you see that end product of horrible post ups or rushed tough shots vs. good defense. You can see it when the feeders were waiting for the cutters that in turn, were waiting for the pick. This is also usually when you hear Gaze whining about stagnant offense in the huddle.

Its a tough ask for a new roster and an inexperienced coach, further exacerbated by Bryson & Blake issues. But even aside from that, I've always thought its a bad idea with a starting center like Maric since an effective shuffle needs one that can move quick, dribble decently and have a reliable mid-range side or high post shot. To make matters worse he's not a good low post scorer like Bradtke or Anstey. Powell fits the bill quite nicely though.

Cadee unlike Lisch, is also not the ideal guard for the shuffle as he doesn't have guard post-up skill. He's one of the lightest if not the lightest player in the NBL. Tell you what though... Jeremy Kendle would be perfect for the shuffle as his guard post-up skill is very good and has range to boot. Instead, they went for Jackson because they need rebounding, which happens to be one of the downside to running the shuffle... your big men are often out of position for offensive rebounding.

The shuffle is all Gaze knows, he's won 2 championships running it, its all he's known for 40 years.

He definitely needs to let the guys get out and run, (pick & rolls, step up screens), the shuffle can be effective, but not as a primary offence, its 2017, the game has changed, he's needs catch up with the rest of the world.

He also doesn't listen to coepland or vickerman, appearantly they've suggested many other things, but he shuts them down.

part of their problem is they're are struggling defensively, early in the season they were no.1, they've gone away from defending people.

So the asst coach who knows a bit about basketball is wasted? Has anyone seriously thought Gaze was a great coach?

It didn't even work that well in the 80's. The shuffle under utilises talent, especially with big men, and that's a problem.

The Kings are paying the price for signing a coach for publicity instead of their actual ability to coach.