Hoops

Kings Fail!!

It's the way it shatters that matters :D

Prewster was in as guard they just never used, why sign him. Jackson was a horrendous decision as well.

lol I said SOMETIMES... would still take that over coming from Perf ;) #TeamEastCoast

"It's hard being a kings fan".

Steady on. Imagine being a wildcat fan or even worse.....from Perth.

*Gulp*

Injuries plagued Sydney

I'm obviously no expert on Sydney, but blind Freddy could see form the start that it was unbalanced. When Blake left, I assumed they'd go find another red-hot import PG (it's what all the cool teams were doing.)
So why didn't they? Had they at that point clarified fro the league that they were going to be clobbered with tax? Who knows.

Do they need to axe Drewie? That's the first big question? I'm not privy to what was discussed, but gees its looks kinda obvious. For years Gaze snr persisted and succeeded running Copeland and junior in the backcourt. Fast forward 25 years and what do we see..
I'm not saying they have to bag him because he didn't make the finals in his first season, but they need to figure out quick smart if he can adapt.

The imbecile anonymous talking about credibility? Please... You don't even have the courage to identify yourself with a forum name. Your interpretation of what I posted is laughable, I suggest you get better language learning tools than Google Translate and comic books.

@KET, I was somewhat surprised at the level of disappointment or anger as well among the fans. I've bagged Gaze's coaching enough on this forum but come to think of it, for a rookie coach with a crap SEABL coaching debut record, 13-15 wasn't too bad for a 1st year NBL gig. He needs to seriously improve his repertoire next season though, maybe a pilgrimage to see Popovich?

Strong reaction just after season finish is to be expected but I certainly don't see myself agreeing with a lot of this over zealous reaction. Only four can make it, there have to be four that don't. You haven't been deprived of a right here, and just missing out doesn't justify blowing up the ship, even if high expectations exist.

JVG has been good enough to inspire long term confidence in the club generally. The Gaze experiment certainly wasn't bad enough to finish after one year, for benefit of time, development and stability he ought to be considered a certainty for return next season.

Injuries plagued Sydney and not having Kazzouh hurt. While you can't expect a fully healthy season next year, I wouldn't be discounting the fact it's unlikely next year will be as savage. It was out of the ordinary (with that said it was for other clubs as well....maybe there's something to be said for scheduling or gamestyle).

Kings just need to make a few tweaks roster wise and maybe gamestyle. They certainly don't need to get the broom out.

Jeff Van Wrongagain, has re entered the clubhouse.

Lisch is great he just fell off at the end of the year because he played too many minutes and didn't have a point guard.

Imports

Whittington - 6/10 Was sometimes brilliant, sometimes distracted by nonsense
Powell - 4/10 Grumpy didn't want to be there, had a couple of good games
Bryson - 2/10 Bad scouting by the Kings, he wasn't up to playing at this level. Couldn't hit a barn
Blake - 0/10 FLOP
Jackson - 2/10 Waratah League standard player

Good job Steve2K by saying "You smart folks get to figure out who they are ;-)."
You are the poster with the conspiracy theory about Gaze having only one season to go. Lisch and Newley too.
Whatever you post from now on has no cred at all.

Yes, we managed to secure Lisch, Newls and Maric, all with Boomers-level talent (at one point or another)...

Yes, we had new ownership and management that were going to right the wrongs of the previous years (for the most part, a HUGE improvement over previous seasons, and this alone should be reason for rejoicing)

Yes, we managed to bring on board the greatest NBL player ever to help build the profile of the sport in Sydney...

Yes, crowds were up overall and it ended on one of the biggest in franchise history...

Yes, the record is a huge improvement over last seasons wooden spoon, and a glass half full approach is that we DID end up only 2 wins behind 2nd place...

However...

No proper PG... This decision was a conscious one made VERY early on in the pre-season with the signing of Lisch... The first idiotic mistake that starts to unravel the great work otherwise done by the new management...

The shuffle... Already been done to death and the by-product of bringing in the best NBL player ever who actually hadn't coached before in the head coaching position... for three years... The next questionable decision, however it's clear that Gaze brought up the profile and helped raise the interest and bring in crowds... It's just a shame that he seemed to be M.I.A and unapproachable at members events and post-game... At least for the regular people...

I still think dropping Bryson at the time when they had a wining record was premature, but once Blake came on, it was a mess... NOT replacing him for the amount of time it took to replace him with the wrong type of player, was an even BIGGER balls-up... Backcourt depth was crap from the start, even if Mirko Djeric didn't get a better offer overseas... Recruiting after the first big signings was a shambles... Kev got burnt out and never had the right players around him in the first place to bring out the best in his talents...

Crowds were up, but they were watching a fairly uninspiring effort on court... Two or three times I really wanted to leave early to get a heads start to the car, another one or two times I just didn't feel like going after a really piss poor effort the game before... The Kings were the only other team besides Brisbane to not have a winning home record... We had a few poorly attended games (all things considered) over the Xmas hols, but it took a demolishing of NZ to actually bring in a bonza-level crowd and look what was dished up to them... If they couldn't get motivated to play hard for 11,000 fans with their season on the line, then there's something seriously wrong...

"NO Leadership NO Defense NO Passion NO Heart!" the OP had it right and this was the most disappointing aspect of the season for me... They had the talent there, but so many times it was just a case of players being disinterested and/or getting out hustled, even by less talented individuals...

Cutting?

Gaze: I think cutting Gaze would look bad, so it won't happen. If he was to leave for "family reasons", or United goes back to being the Tigers, I would happily let him go if we had a better replacement, like DV stepping up or throwing money at Goorj (as per the standard Kings fan) and then stealing Matty from the Evil Coast...

DV: No, but he needs to have a larger hand to play in everything. If Gaze disappears, happy for him to step up as HC if BG or even Dennis is unavailable...

Copes: Did he bring anything? No clue, but it seems he's part of the Gaze package... Same criticisms as will Gaze... had this great ex-player, but what did we do with them off court?

JVG: No. He got things done, but he needs to get the right things done. Hard to know who was in charge of making those terrible decisions, but you'd think the buck stops with him. A lot of good done, but on notice, as El Presidente Drumpf would say...

Whittingten: God yes... Great talent, when he had his head on straight, which as the season went on, was less and less, culminating in me wanting to heckle him as much as I did no-heart Melmeth...

Powell: Yes. Was great off court and a lovely guy, but on court, the early criticism was that he had no effort and that didn't improve. That last home game was just the pinnacle of not giving a rats arse...

Hill: Yes. Wasn't ever a big fan, but this season shows he won't get any time, and there's a spot or two opening up hack in his home town...

Prewster: Yes. No real benefit and we should be able to do better...

Cadee: No. 1 year left, local talent and had some great games, just had too many minutes to be relied upon due to lack of depth and would be great off the bench...

Lisch: No. 2yrs left and despite what a couple of defects on the FB fans pages think, he's a keeper.

Newly: No. Brought it more often than not and one of the bestin the league at getting to the basket and eciting to watching... One of the very few Kings players to be so consistently...

Garlepp: Yes. Kept us in a few games but wasn't used right. WHen given more time and had more confidence, played better, but FFS needs to learn to rebound...

Moller: Yes. Long term 11th man prospect, especially if can go back to Dev status?

W.M-W: Yes. If he doesn't go offto college, it would be good to have a young talent to grow over a few years for long term gain...

Maric: No. Was our anchor in the middle when actually given minutes and pros outweigh the cons. Just needs the right system around him.

Khazzouh: Depends. This was his option year and surely with offers maybe drying up next season, we should be able to get him cheaper than when he first came back? With him, Maric and a Boone-like import next season, it's a solid mix if the rumours of him being lazy with his rehab aren't 100% true and he's back close to full strength. Think of what other options would be out there. He's one of the more recognisable players and if he's working hard in the off season and is good to go, I think again pros outweigh cons (unless he's given up and just going for one more paycheque)

I don't think it's any surprise their imports won't be back. Whittington was only ever okay, Powell's done and Jackson wasn't an NBL standard import either last season with MU or this season with the Kings.

With so much of their local core under contract the Kings need to find better imports next season.

Sprouting more rubbish and conspiracies... word is all 3 imports are looking unlikely to return. One is contemplating retirement, one is homesick and the last one eager but may not be naturalised in time. You smart folks get to figure out who they are ;-).

*Andrew Gaze: No, *if* he scraps the shuffle and we play an NBL-quality halfcourt offense.
*Dean Vickerman: No
*Copeland: No idea.
*JVG: Yes - deserves the lion's share of blame for this year's roster.
*Whittingten: Yes - although might be nice to see him utilized correctly on offense.
*Powell: Yes
*Hill: Yes (Seems like the perfect Cairns Taipan, IMO)
*Prewster: No (as 9th/10th man)
*Cadee: No (6th man)
*Lisch: No
*Newly: No
*Garlepp: Yes
*Moller: No
*William: No
*Maric: No (first big off bench)
*Khazzough: No - who knows what he is going to bring next season.

The singing looks good after a victory, but it probably masks internal clashes.

If Gaze picked the team, he should be sacked, If he inherited the team, with no say, he should be retained and given control of recruiting, and therefor held responsible for next seasons performance.

Team/player selection was the biggest reason the Kings failed.

If Gaze picked the team, he should be sacked, If he inherited the team, with no say, he should be retained and given control of recruiting, and therefor held responsible for next seasons performance.

The Jackson decision instead of virtually any capable guard was easily the most baffling one. I don't like their frontcourt much either. Would be better with a Boone or Jacobsen than Powell.

Lets have a uncoded POLL of which coaches, players and management you think should be sacked.

*Andrew Gaze: Yes
*Dean Vickerman: No
*Lanard Copeland: Yes
*Jeff Van Groningen: Yes
*Whittingten: Yes
*Powell: Yes
*Hill: Yes
*Prewster: Yes
*Cadee: No but should come off the bench.
*Lisch: No
*Newly: No
*Garlepp: Yes
*Moller: No
*William: No but he most likely will sign with Brisbane

Not that hard-AG-Andew Gaze
LC-Leonard Copeland
JVG-Jeff Van Groningen
HC-Head Coach

Hope that clears it up.

All it means is the Kings failed for the season overall and what will next season bring.

Must be the Cadbury Crumble Code of misinformation.

WTF
Too many coded letters and not enough actual words that mean something anon^

It has been a failure from the start.

1st mistake-Appointing AG as Head Coach-Paid way too much.Inexperienced at coaching-1yr SEABL,Some tours to China-not good enough to H/C NBL level
2nd mistake-Appointing LC as A/Coach
3rd mistake-Allowing JVG too much say in player recruits.

JVG was told by some people that appointing AG as coach was a mistake and he would not have a bar of it.

Will AG be back-do not be surprised if he walks

I will happily sprout rubbish and conspiracies when they turn out to be true more often than not. As for them having 3 year deals, that's a well-known fact that has been mentioned many times in previous threads. That's why I wrote the term 'coincides'. Isn't that funny?

You must be gullible if you believe that a work contract will guarantee your active participation in a workplace. All it will do is help your argument with regards to agreed remuneration when you bring it up in litigation when both party disagree.

JVG, Gaze and co. can have 100 year deals but nothing can stop AEG putting them aside and still paying their contracts if they can't find any way to fire them without paying a dime. Want an example? Here's one... Joshua Malik Childress.

And Dazz, no offense but I don't think you're the right person to understand 'disappointment' particularly in this instance, since your beloved team is the very one causing it :). I was merely reacting to the anon Kings fan above saying it was the most disappointing season ever.

Cadee isn't a front liner, yet.
IMO, they were 2 guards short when Blake left - although I'd suggest he didn't deliver what the Kings were hoping for in his brief tenure.

^seek a guard...

Lisch
Cadee
Prewster
Jackson
Newley
Whittington
Moller
Garlepp
Powell
Hill
Maric
(Khazzouh)

Two guards, Prewster, seven forwards, one centre (two if you count Khazzouh, who didn't play a minute.) Imbalanced? Naahhh...

I cannot imagine why Sydney didn't seem a guard to help them out after Blake disappointed and disappeared.

True, and not just up-and-down speed, but quick movement in the half-court in those on-balls, which is something Beveridge's offence does very well.

Still, having to carry too much of the load and spend too much time out of position at PG also hurt, especially chucked on top of his schedule the previous 12 months.

Personally I think Lisch showed an inability all year to take players in 1 v 1 situations; he looked slow and lethagric. I'd say that stemmed from the fact that he was regularly given the ball late in shot clocks to create plays off iso sets (which isn't really suited to his game).

He is best in an up and down game and utilising on ball screens.

And they had the best ever line up in NBL history.LOL

I don't know about "disappointment," but the criticism is that the new owners poured squillions into Sydney, outspent everyone else on players by upto 100~200% (if you factor in the tax), hired THREE "Big NAME" coaches, plus a big name GM, etc
and yet still failed.

SteveK2 it's no wonder that people here just sprout rubbish like you and then everyone believe it's true. It's a great conspiracy however ;)
All 3 Gaze, Lisch and Newley ahd 3 year deals.

Would the disappointment be as high if the Kings didn't sit at the top of the ladder for 8 rounds early and the hyping up of 2 ex-NBA import signings with championship talks?

13-15 is a big improvement over wooden spoon 6-22. Crowd numbers have also gone up with the third largest 11,005 in franchise history for the last home game.

By these numbers, JVG and Gaze will be given another crack next year with the expectation of making the playoffs. If they do, a GF appearance would be the next milestone which coincides with the end of Gaze, Lisch and Newley's contracts.

During the telecast, they raised 3 points:
Unbalanced
Lack of cohesion
Shuffle

I actually think Cadee is decent, but whichever way you look at it, they did not have enough depth in the backcourt, and after Blake left lacked a genuine star PG. Maybe Gaze felt that with the shuffle, this was the best composition?
However he flogged Lisch who finished up knackered.

The Lack of cohesion amongst the team was not really something I was aware of, but perhaps it is evident in the way they play. Hopefully if the Kings can keep their core together, that will change.

I think the problem for the Kings all comes down to heart. I think maybe 3 players showed heart consistently in Lisch, Newley and Cadee, while the rest just turned up and did whatever they felt like doing. Josh Powell was a cancer on the team, making sure he could do the bare minimum on any particular play to justify his pay check and nothing more. Whittington was inconsistent and his tech fouls last night were sheer stupidity. People can harp on about team balance until the cows come home but this team had the talent to make it to the finals and they failed miserably. If you look past their first 7 wins, they were utterly atrocious from then on. Many like to blame Gaze for this, but he is a rookie coach and only so much could have been expected from him. He was hired to put bums on seats and he did that much. The Kings crowds grew, their profile grew, and the money grew, so JVC won't be too displeased at what was done from a business standpoint. But on the court the Sydney Kings left a lot to be desired. A different set of imports would go a long way to plugging the leak.

You can't run a team with two guards on the roster. Both scoring guards no less.

Reminds me of the time Al Westover thought Dave Barlow was a point guard, or the season he signed 4 lumbering bigs- Helliwell, Tragardh, Burston and Nevill I think it was? And Even tried playing Tragardh at the 3.

I'm not certain kazzu would get enough offensive looks in the shuffle system, it's set up for guards, this also hurt garlepp, Newley is a legend and got his points by making his own decisions.

You'd think a healthy Khazzouh would make a difference next season. I felt their front-court was really weak, with Maric too foul prone and not mobile enough defensively, Whittington too inconsistent and Powell a complete waste of space. Garlepp tries hard, but there is only so much he can do. And Moller, while I love him as an energy guy, he is not ready for more than spot minutes yet.

No depth. Not replacing Blake with a guard was a huge mistake. Lish looks disinterested and/or exhausted.

Would JVG recommend that Andrew gets dropped as coach if that's the best thing for the Sydney franchise, I wonder.

I'm not an expert, but it's just an observation that Gaze seems to be very chummy with his team. Which is fine, but I guess I never really saw him take the hard line or say anything to really lead the team like the Coach normally would. From a casual, external viewpoint, it looked like he wanted to be one of the guys, rather than the head coach.

Yes the MM love is never ending. He's a great guy and a true passionate fan but seriously needs to take of the purple and gold glasses.
The Kings are continuing to dish out mediocrity and despite and the great game presentations and venue the team fails to deliver. Time and time again, season in and season out.
The amount of money wasted for nothing not even a early finals exit.
I was surprised at the crowds coming back so early only to be continually get heart broken.
I believe many players are still contracted so the same ol will probably continue unless 2 stud imports are found. Not ex NBA players that simply can't even play NBL now.

If you saw McQuade's post on Facebook this morning then you would likely throw up in your mouth like I did.

McQuade is president of the JvG fan club & has been singing Gaze's praises all season so I cannot see him being too critical of either. He's rarely ever critical ofthe Kings at all since he know which side his bread is buttered on.

Yes it was interesting to hear the commentary lastnight. I haven't heard anyone talk about it but it was mentioned that trying to run the shuffe with a 24sec.
As a long time Kings fan this was proably the most disappointing season ever for me.
JVG needs to keep his head out of player selections. Scouting and going on the road too. That's not his job. It has been in the past and who ever allowed him to do that again should be immediately moved on.
I fail to see what LC is offering to that program as well and if Vickerman can't get his ideas implemented then why is he there.
Gaze is a failure at SEABL level and with the limited he has there that's probably fair enough.
Bo Lu at that level isn't great either and there is no way he should be in an NBL side. Such a promising start to the season that ended in such disappointment.

Can wait to read matt mcquade report on the kings season. I hope he don't sit on the fence and instead be brutally honest. Their are some coaches, players and GM that need to be accountable for what ended up being a terrible season!! Major changes is needed in the coming weeks and that's not only for imports.

So did daylight finish second? ;-)

As everybody posting so far has suggested, Gaze was a flop but blind Freddy could have seen that he was never going to be a master coach. A great scoring average does not make a great coach. That takes some basketball IQ.

I think people are over-complicating it when a lot of it comes down to how they managed the third guard position. Even as late as signing Garrett Jackson, had they signed Jeremy Kendle I think they would be in the playoffs.

Had their perimeter players (including Whittington) been able to apply defensive pressure at the level of earlier in the season they wouldn't have dropped off like they did.

When your team doesn't have many playmakers and you rely on points off turnovers to be successful, you can't afford to play your key guys huge minutes like they had to because of poor recruiting.

The other intriguing factor is that they were never able to utilise Lisch's talents to benefit the team, even when he was shooting well. That probably needs to be one of the key focuses of their end-of-season review.

The Cadee love was what I think hurt the most. Weak D, playing 35 minutes a game & inconsistent O. Leaving too much pressure on Lisch & Newley, & in the end Lisch was seriously down on his usually awesome form.