Hoops

Grand Final Series: Hawks vs Wildcats, Game 2 (Mar 1)

@FSTOS

'You really think every club doesn't want to win.'
Yes all teams want to win but do they take the necessary steps to win? This is like saying everyone wants to be a millionaire, but some believe Centrelink is their ticket whilst some will go out, get a qualification then a good job.

'Perth have a very solid core AND have been the beneficiary of a benevolent benefactor who liked to win to such an extent that he provided enough resources to build the team. This got them through the period until the new arena allowed the club to be more self sufficient. '
James Spenceley is the Hawks' benevolent benefactor is he not? He maynot have the net worth of Bendat but he is worth more than enough to take care of the Hawks.

Putting aside money for a moment, there certainly is an element of culture at work with the Wildcats. They seem to have a continual pursuit of excellence. Case in point, JJ ---> Ingram ---> JJ ---> Cotton. They knew they'd cop flak and look bad but they were willing to do the hard yards and admit they were wrong and try something else.

Lets take your beloved Hawks 2014. Spenceley spent money to bring Jahii Carson in, next to Gary Ervin of all players. That failed miserably, but they kept with the same formula until it was too late.

See the difference? Thats not just money, thats a mindset.

I am sure the Hawks would have loved to dump Holyfield and Bring in say Josh Boone or Harris and bring in someone of Cotton's standard. '
Yes but the Hawks didn't despite having the backing of Spenceley.

'Your culture was a point or two away from not even making the playoffs. Get a freeking grip.'
This point I agree with, those openly boasting about the Cats should recognise how perilously close they came to not making it at all. In fact in 2015, the DeAndre Daniels year, they had to rely on MU spluttering at the end to make the playoffs, only to be swept.

I'm sure Perth will beable to lure decent Aussie talent over once Damo, Matty and Wagstaff retire given the history and allure (money + success) of the organisation..

That's true, of this playing group.
I suppose I was referring to the organisation as a whole. It's hard to secure good local players, but I feel the Wildcats would have the chequebook out.
It's not like AFL where you have to go to the draft and then spend 5 years developing the players.

Only stumbling block would be if there was too much turnover. If suppose they needed two new locals and all new imports because the others got better offers.
Even then I suppose they would be competitive.

There kind of is signs of them slowing down... this season they scraped through and got lucky with the Hawks beating the sixers. Damo & Matty Knight surely dont have many seasons left in them, also Redhage set to retire. The core players are starting to come to an end and with that the club could also start to struggle to continue this dominance.

I am a Perth fan, so of course I want them to win, but even I must admit this is getting old. If the Wildcast win that will 3 out of the last 4 and no signs of them slowing down

It was a great season so I really hope next year is another corker and there is stiff competition for the championship.

Not hate just bored of them or NZ winning constantly.

Who knew neutrals weren't allowed to get bored...

A neutral but you hate Perth? Makes sense....

Plus also we are missing the best team. Adelaide with HCA would have been hard to beat in a 5-game seris.

#boredatwork

I don't think Cairns stunk or choked. They did well to make the playoffs ahead of most of the big budget teams. Only I feel their 2nd placing suggested they were better than they were.
The wildcats knew they had to win on the road and it would make their job easier if they did it in game 1.

I also feel that there have been 3 wildcat teams; the middle-ground team with Johnson, the injury ravaged team, and now with Cotton. If they'd had him all year it would have been a different look and we might have been expecting this.

Plus also we are missing the best team. Adelaide with HCA would have been hard to beat in a 5-game seris.

It is all speculation.

I think one issue with the Hawks imports was that Harris started the season well, while Rotnei was struggling. The latter however was on a two year deal, so he'd be expensive for a community club to cut.

When they might have noticed the chance for an upgrade on Harris (no idea if they were of this view, just that I was) they had made their way to second spot on the ladder. Why mess with the roster then? Bit like Ferguson being pretty deficient but starting through the Sixers strong run and being part of the top regular season team.

And then with Holyfield, they already had essentially four local bigs, so where do you spend your third import? End up with two import SFs along with Coenraad? They had PG covered.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't retain either of Harris or Holyfield, but I can see how/why they didn't get replaced.

I think SG/SF is right for one spot, but ideally someone more experienced. And then a big that gives them a different look - Holyfield not far off that being exclusively an inside player.

Good points but you've got it wrong as I HATE the Perth gloating, but have to admit they are delivering.

I'm a neutral who has been saddened by the one-sidedness of the playoffs. I wanted to see someone bring Perth down. Also last eight season NZ Perth NZ Perth... so boring. But money talks sadly but do we really know how much more $$$$ these clubs spend vs. the rest? It is all speculation.

I meant to say "people om here generally don't dislike Perth"

You really think every club doesn't want to win. Perth have a very solid core AND have been the beneficiary of a benevolent benefactor who liked to win to such an extent that he provided enough resources to build the team. This got them through the period until the new arena allowed the club to be more self sufficient.

I am sure the Hawks would have loved to dump Holyfield and Bring in say Josh Boone or Harris and bring in someone of Cotton's standard.

If you really believe that is to do with culture and not $$$ you are a bigger tool than I thought.

People on here generally don't like Perth, they dislike smug fwits who gloat on here when they win or whine about refs etc whenever the team l dropping a game.

Your culture was a point or two away from not even making the playoffs. Get a freeking grip.

Commitment comes down to club culture. Perth have it, the rest don't, despite the horrible style of ball played they win as they don't accept mediocrity. Hence the playoffs have sucked as no other teams (excl. NZ) seem to have it at this stage of the season and fall over. Hence constant Perth or NZ titles rinse repeat.

"It was more directed at Taipans, man they choked. Enjoy being the only club with no title.

Hawks I guess benefitted from Randle hogball. But then you make the GF and come out like that in your first game at home? Pathetic. Enjoy."

I rest my case your Honour.

In my opinion Adelaide, Hawks and United when rolling were just sensational to watch this season. As good on the eye as any for a long time.

There have been so many other great games in this incredible (yeah the playoffs have been a little one sided)and every team has played their part. To crap on about how poor some teams are shows you have little concept for reality or knowledge of the NBL.

None of the easy on the eye comments are meant to be a criticism of Perth who one cant help to admire because of their commitment to getting the W and the crowds they get game in game out.

I hope you can find the other half of your brain!

It was more directed at Taipans, man they choked. Enjoy being the only club with no title.

Hawks I guess benefitted from Randle hogball. But then you make the GF and come out like that in your first game at home? Pathetic. Enjoy.

so anything but the title is mediocrity and the teams suck.

You really are a clueless fwit.

More like Taipans & Hawks stunk. I know they are regional teams but if you as the fans don't demand better and accept mediocrity you'll keep getting the same crap dished out to you.

@FSTOS "Bit rich from those posters belittling the Hawks achieving what they have."

Yep, same ones who were dissing the Taipans.

I think it's actually showing just how good the Wildcats are this season - just took them a while to get their act together.

But all credit to them, they're about as together as they need to be, aren't they? Sweep Cairns, possibly sweep Hawks - either way they've won the four in a row that actually matter at this end of the season.

There's always next year... (*crosses fingers*)

"What was the crowd at the Gong? Sellout?"

They said 5k during the telecast, not sure of the exact number

Martin
Rotnei
Harris
Ellis/Forman
Holyfield

That bench could go with anyone though.

Norton
White
Coenraad
Kay
Ogilvy

Not a starting 5 I expected to be competing for an NBL championship this season with all the talent around.

What was the crowd at the Gong? Sellout?

Looks like it'll be a very healthy crowd on Sunday, just single seats left!

Wow really? Sucks for Bevo. Holyfield is awful, must be cheap.

I think Bevo wanted a different import. But ownership forced him into the big (Holyfield)

Bloody great effort to get there by Bevo - lost the Killer K's and still make a GF.

Bevo just needs to upgrade @ the power import spots and keep that core together.

Serious question marks over crap Hawks recruiting though. 2/3 of their imports flat out suck. It has cost them a ring. Sucks to have a good Aussie core + Rotnei with those two.

Bit rich from those posters belittling the Hawks achieving what they have.

Sure they have faded badly in the second half of both GF games but they have made the GF on their own merits and dealt with Adelaide on the way.

The way they play the game at such a high tempo has probably taken some sting out of them at the back end of games.

They aren't far away from being a championship team. (by some miracle they might still be).

Replace either Harris with Craig or Hollyfield with McKay and their rebounding and defensive shortcomings would be far less noticeable. Perth have demonstrated how much difference one star import added can make and I am not even talking superstar here.

Cant take anything away from Perth. Solid veterans led by arguably the toughest competitor to ever play the game(note I'm not talking talent)and one of the best import duos in a long long time.

Just hoping for a underdog victory in game 3 to extend the series.

With Lucas Walker still hanging around, it's a good chance he'll be in Redhages spot next year.. what a luxury to have available to do.

Brandt has a two year deal

Redhage will come off the salary situation, and if we're being realistic, possibly Matty Knight. Hopefully that means we can keep Cotton and give Brandt a deal that will keep him around long term.

Fantastic road win by the Cats!!

As LV said, All a club has to do is make the playoff's to be in with a shot of winning... Then it is totally about finding form at the right part of the season.

The Wildcats have done just that and the Cotton signing has definitely turned things around. But saying the reason the Cats are 1 win away from another title solely due to Cotton is totally wrong. Damo is back at his best, Prather is injury free and killing it, Wagstaff coming up with huge plays at crucial times, Brandt in career best form.

As to being over the cap.. I'm not sure what the Cats are paying Cotton.. But I'm pretty sure Nick Marvin has said we tried to stick pretty close to the cap as the Cats didn't want to pay luxury tax. No doubt Cotton would have tipped us over by a little bit, but no where near the insane Sydney or Melbourne numbers.

The limited minutes for Oscar is fine by me, when he gets on a role he can seriously shoot. He seems to hit a shot and then goes to the bench, plus i'm sure he could help on the boards. So i'm happy he's sitting for extended periods :)

Cats by about 40 in game 3.

Marvelle starred in Game 2/3 and had an impact.. No denying that.

Cats had plenty of adversity, some unfortunate all 3 pgs out at the same time, some from poor decisions ( import rotation). However they persevered and got through. They made a very unpopular call letting Johnson go the second time, can anyone blame them now, imagine if sydney and Melbourne used as much due diligence and made the tough calls when replacing there imports.

It very well could have being sydney then daylight, lol.

Oh well. It was a good regular season.

Marvell's Harris is NOT a star player hahaha sad situation and all but hardly a go to guy for the hawks.

Can the Hawks bounce back from here?
Logic, tradition, and stats say no.

Next question - can they bounce back enough to make a fight of it?

If Knight can't play, does that give the Hawks hope?

"Once down about 5, Illawarra kinda looked like they expected to lose. The commentators commented on the bench being lifeless."

Too True
I know the Wildcats have a history of grinding teams down, but other teams have taken them right to the wire and won.

How do Illawrra start out dominating the boards then just seem to tire?

Fool, read the comment, I was stating that the refs calls favoured the Hawks.

Sweep.

Doesn't help that Hawks lost a star player to go back home to critically ill dad. Stayed for game against Sixers just to help them through bit that now leaves the NBL with a poor GF series. Would have better for Sixers to go through on a prayer they would kick in to gear and give everyone a fantastic 5 games.. That was lost and hasn't done the NBL any favours to end a great season... Boring now.. Bet the viewing is down and site hits sliding..

Agree with the above anon just like my 36ers were destroyed in game 3 in '14 I can't see the Hawks putting up any fight next up. Why would we think otherwise? Pure hope? One eyed support? Sure but reality is this was their chance to extend the series make the cats think and stress especially if knight is out, instead theybwere embarrased in that second half from a 'have a crack show some heart' point of view. Not all losses have to be a blow out to be embarrassing ala my 6ers last Thursday.

I feel like game 3 could quickly turn into party time in the Jungle. You'd think the Hawks would have lost a lot of their motivation and belief while the Cats will be hungry to close it out at home. Once the Cats get a sniff of a lead and go on a run, I wouldn't be surprised if Hawks drop off like they did tonight and it turns into party time while the cats run away with it easily.

Anon do you really think the refs cost illawarra. The calls were bad all night. But the dubious non existant calls actually did favour the hawks.