Hoops

Marto best Aussie in NBL ever

So harsh on Matt some of you guys, very funny some others and missing the point of the thread for so many.

Matt is purely trying to compare Damian Martin's NBL career and record, saying he is one hell of a leader and has inspired his team to a record 4 NBL titles now, who knows he could get more...

If we are going to judge titles as one of the main criteria, along with leadership and the value one player gives to his team, knowing how Martin came back from a devastating injury more than once, just to continue playing this long is amazing.

Overcoming adversity and playing the hard man, tough nose defender, while also taking on the scoring when he had to, being the most inspiring player I can recall in Perth and possibly the NBL in general, yeah I can understand where Matt is coming from.

Calling him the best NBL player ever isn't technically what he is saying, he is qualifying his statement, so baring this in mind, especially with four titles in the bag, he has a point!

IMO Opinion ;)

I'd be interested to know the Cats win/loss record with and without Martin this year. He is highly influential.

David Stiff, Darryl Corletto and CJ Bruton are the Aussie GOATS of the NBL.

(Using the logic of this OP).

Wow just wow JasonC you forget Gaze also dominated at NCAA level and for the Boomers. Yeah it was just the Tigers system.

Matt, how old are you and how much past NBL have you seen or read about?

What?

Thanks for the laugh, both OP and Isaac.

Martin is lucky to be in the top 50 Aussie players to have played in the NBL., let alone #1.

Is it school holidays in Australia?

Pizza Hut
Thank you for your kind post. Some people out there are like rabbid dogs if certain topics are brought up,they just whinge and get aggressive if you don't agree with them. It says a lot about there character. bullies often. yet when someone disagrees with they are the first to cry and go all sensitive. just annoying some people are.
And stats don't always tell the whole picture as said, Marto does a lot of stuff that can't be measured in stats.
Who ever is better so be it, even if Gaze is better Marto has legitimate right to challenge Gaze's GOAT status anyway. get over it some of you cry babies.

Hard to compare against past players? That's the whole point. Best ever. Nope.

And?

"TD15 said "He's the best defender in the history of the NBL." Yet another idiot post."

How is it an idiot post?
TD15 is expressing his opinion, which he's allowed to do. Even if you disagree, that doesn't make him a idiot.

In addition I would suggest that his opinion is shared by many people.
Its always difficult to compare against past players, but Martin is unquestionably the best defensive player of the current decade. Without injury Martin would have won it 7 years running.

Matt, Martin has 30 players easily to get past before he's even in the conversation.

Matt there is seriously something wrong with you, you say Marto is the best australian NBL player of all time, but apparently he isn't the best defender??? He has no offensive game, and if he's not the best defender how can you call him the best of all time..you sir are delusional haha

Matt you my friend are totally delusional

Andrew Gaze won NBL MVP 7 times.
Maybe we can re-visit this topic once Martin has 1.

Gaze can get challenged and will one day. Records don't last forever, maybe a long time but records or GOATS can be challenged. Marto is good though, as other have noted it can be put out there. Even if Gaze wins this debate, Marto is good enough to challenge Gaze's GOAT crown, even if said he ends up losing to Gaze.

Terry Dozier/Dave Simmons also great defenders and Darnell Mee of course and Darren Lucas.
Marto is in there league who is best defender in NBL ever I don't know. Darnell Mee often would guard forwards and Centre's. Michael Jordan did that sometimes to.

"Anon, who's better?"

I'm not sure, I just find it hard to make a comparison. They are totally different players. Using stats of course Gaze trumps Martin, but as we know a lot of Martin's value doesn't necessarily show up in boxscores. And as has been noted, there are certain things in Gaze's favour that helped inflate his boxscore numbers.

I didn't analyse basketball as critically as I do now when Gaze was in his prime, but I know he had a rep as a poor-to-average defender. Is that fair?

Anon, who's better?

Just out of curiosity, how many grand finals/titles did Gaze have? I recall 2 titles and not many other grand finals, which is solid, but not really stuff of legend.

He's definitely up there in the conversation, but I don't think "daylight" is appropriate when comparing him to the field.

"Gaze joined the NBL as an 18 year old. Won ROTY averaging 29.1/6.7/4.1, plus 1.6 SPG. Almost 30PPG as an 18 year old rookie... Made All-NBL First Team in 15 straight seasons. At the age of 22, he averaged 44.1 PPG for a season.

In his 20 NBL seasons: 612 games, 18,908 points at an average of 30.9 points per game."

Be careful using these per game averages as an argument. I remember often Gaze would log 48 minutes and still be on the court at the end of blowouts. The system was very much tailored to him racking up huge numbers.

"Also for the record, my number 1 is not a Perth player. I will never mention his name cos I hate his guts."

Any hints? Can't really think of anyone who would be so good to be considered the best ever yet be hated so much. Usually the hated guys are ones that aren't that great.

Gaze was the best offensive player.

An argument can be made for Martin being the best defensive player.

Might be a case of what you value more, but as we know most value offense.

Darnell Mee for me!

hate to grng this thread towards respectabilty but I Have to point out that when making BOAT claims for the NBL ---- that even as late as the early 2000's local full time 24/7/12 professional players in the nbl were not always in the majority. defense is supported by fitness and scouting, bot of which greatly improve with the time to 9 and tecnology) to watch tape and engage or work with professional trainers.

In the guards positions it hard to know exactly how very well respected defensive players who played the number 1 spot like Wood, McLeod, Smyth, Mee etc would have done with that amount of time and support.

at the least you have to acknowledge that Martin has won the DPoTY 6 out of eight consecutive years, but then Smyth won it 4 times in eight years (only losing out to a very high profile Leroy Loggins one/2 years), and not even having any award made for 3 of those years !

Mee has 5 in an eight year spread.

It can be argued that both Mee and Smyth contributed more offensively to their Championship winning teams than Martin generally has to his.

martins' a future NBL hall of fame player , but its been shown that he absolutely needs a top 5 Shooting Guard ( or at least a SF) to be his partner to balance out his teams.

TD15 said "He's the best defender in the history of the NBL." Yet another idiot post.

"Damo can't shoot"

Tell that to the Hawks after he dropped 4 of 5 from downtown on them :P

Damo's "defence is better than most"?? He's the best defender in the history of the NBL.

Hes not even the best cat, that's .....

Aaron Trahair : had an absolute stupendous first season, and if perth had been smart enough to keep him during the 1997-2007 he would have been the standout player of this century, once the franchise had developed his full potential.

Damo can't shoot. Defense is better than most, team stuff great, but best player ever, no way.
The Darren Lucas maybe

If you don't think Gaze made things happen you're kidding yourself. For mine he's clearly the best Australian we've seen in the NBL.

He was more than just a flat out scorer - he was a great passer, great leader and under-rated defender (until his later years when he became a bit of a defensive liability.

Anonytroll said
> In all defense Jason. You my friend are a basketball idiot.

Awesome! If it wasn't for this part you might have been able to form a valid argument. You almost seemed intelligent enough!
Great try though!

Jason

Maybe not the correct approach but a great theoretical question.

How do you compare what Damian Martin brings to the court, team and the organisation with some of our NBL legends?

Imagine a prime Damian Martin defending an Andrew Gaze, interesting, would Gaze get his (I was a bit young) but i suspect yes, but would Damo do enough to get his team over the line, quiet possibly yes.

4 Championships and arguably the teams most important player in each one, without been a factor on offence is some achievement. If you don't think he was a factor look at when he was injured or absent against NZ.

Not the best player but I struggle to think of a better competitor in any sport I have watched.

@Big Ads - Don't have kids mate ;)

Gaze joined the NBL as an 18 year old. Won ROTY averaging 29.1/6.7/4.1, plus 1.6 SPG. Almost 30PPG as an 18 year old rookie... Made All-NBL First Team in 15 straight seasons. At the age of 22, he averaged 44.1 PPG for a season.

In his 20 NBL seasons: 612 games, 18,908 points at an average of 30.9 points per game.

Train, In the interest of protecting your son's self esteem put the parental lock on your devices! :-)

I don't think Matt's post is that far from reality that he should be called and idiot, stupid or ridiculed. IMO opinion he is the greatest defender to play in the NBL and deserves to be talked about in this discussion. Do people really have to come on here and play the school yard bully everytime. He could be a young kid for all we know.

I'm surprised Martin hasn't come on here himself and denounce this stupidity. In other news the world is flat according to Matt.

I have Damo battling it out with Jason Smith as the #1 Australian guard to ever play for the Sydney Spirit.

Reply #629700
re: Marto best Aussie in NBL ever

Please go seek help.
Immediately.

btw, check out the score. lol

#bringback12mins

In all defense Jason. You my friend are a basketball idiot. Not top 5 yeah no worries. Imagine if Damo had ever taken the time to actually develop a jump shot with any consistency, he wouldn't be in this league. Sadly he is not an offensive threat which angers me about his potential.

#TheGOAT

In Matt's defense, I have always said Gaze was massively overrated and benefited from a system that was built around him scoring.
Damo makes things happen, Gaze could shoot.

I don't put Gaze in the top 5 let alone number one.
He will always be a Koala Bear to me. Cuddly and protected.

For the record, I do rate Damo higher than Gaze, but not 1.
Also for the record, my number 1 is not a Perth player. I will never mention his name cos I hate his guts.

Jason.

I guess now that Dazz is gone someone had to step in his shoes, Matt making us cats supporters looks bad.

He means Aussie players.

Otherwise he wouldnt be top 5 at cats

Ricky
JC
Vlahov
Fisher
Rogers
Redhage etcetc

Will he have his jersey retired?

Hoops Community Centre - An öff the grid"mainframe located in a secret location where blocked posters are teleported to be "rehabilitated".

Hahahahahaha, i see your thought bubble went just as well over here too Nima. Oops, i mean Matt.