Hoops

NBL Development or pathway programs

I was thinking more like each NBL has a second/junior/dev. team.

Conferences*

It would be nice (although utopian for the moment - particularly with BA being BA) to have a national "second" league which is the development league.

I guess similar to the SEABL but expanded and incorpating teams from the ABL leagues, with an attempt to be a streamlined (so perhaps less overall teams than all current ABL and SEABL sides) and a stronger talented league which can develop talent for the NBL better.

It could adopt conferences (potentially going beyond state lines) and have the top teams of all confetences face off in finals, I think this might also draw greater crowds and sponsorship. Would also be worth attempting to align clubs with university sponsorship too, particularly more regional clubs.

Might create greater revenue and by streamlining perhaps cut costs while increasing competitive strength and providing for the NBL

Which is something no one has argued against. Just that they can't afford that.

Yes there are, but in a different time window. Which is my point all along. You can keep saying what you are saying which is correct, but the fact is the best scenario would be if there was a lower tier played at the same time as NBL.

What sort of pedantic argument is that though? You said:

So if an NBL team wants to pick someone up midway through the season they can't.

doesn't mean*

Obviously money is an issue. But that doesn't negate the fact that a lower tier isn't being run during the NBL season. We all know why there isn't one ($) but that doesn't it wouldn't be beneficial to have one.

Out of season means most state league player are out of shape and rythym. It's obvious a lower junior league being played at the same time as NBL would be beneficial. God some people are slows.

AFL doesn't get "imports" in the sense of NBL imports (higher level players from the same sport.) Sure there's the odd find from Ireland or a US athlete trying their luck because they've seen the game on TV. It's a vastly different scenario.

What planet are YOU on #637023?

Out of season means most state league player are out of shape and rythym. It's obvious a lower junior league being played at the same time as NBL would be beneficial. God some people are slows.

AFL get imports from Ireland, USA, NZ, that I know of and they're always looking for more countries.

State, SEABL, Waratah, QBL, Big V league players are always available out of season.

They don't all exit the country to play in Europe!!

Some of these players get called in to train/scrimmage with the NBL teams, especially when they have a few injuries.

Bennie Lewis got a short term gig with Melbourne United last year under these exact circumstances.

October 13 2016
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/melbourne-united-back-defence-shooting-to-improve-in-adelaide-36ers-rematch-20161013-gs1lmy.html

"Melbourne United have declined to put a return date on veteran guard David Barlow, who is recovering from a calf injury and listed as "week to week", with shooter Bennie Lewis remaining on the roster as a short-term injury replacement."

What planet are some of you people on?

Please do your research before you post!

It is played in a different time window. So if an NBL team wants to pick someone up midway through the season they can't.

Every other league/sport has a tier below them to pick players from when injuries occur. NBL has nothing running concurrently underneath it.

There should be a junior NBL development league.

"Also another example - NRL has their National Youth Competition."

Which has been scrapped and this is the last season

It has been stated earlier but really want to hammer home the point, Joey is he most connected 36ers coach to the local junior programs that has been seen in quite some time.

And to hammer the other greater point re state and NITP monitoring, not only did Doyley never make a state team (behind guys like Daly, Maynard and so forth) but Majok only made a state team as a second year. When he started playing ball as a second year under 18, the then SASI program saw him as too old and didn't want anything to do with him.

The AIS/COE select kids on potential.

What the kids do with that potential is the $64,000 question.

Unfortunately the basketball world picks size first and hope they can teach the skills. Unfortunately it doesn't always work like that.

Part of the reasons that kids from AIS, COE don't make it is because there not always the best, the selections are often biased towards who knows who.
The afl talk up the basketball converts but as noted above 99.9% wouldn't make it. It doesn't stop the afl from talking them up though to show that they are the big boys and basketball are pour cousins.

It is the parent/s who usually bemoan the lack of opportunities and then, as a good parent, will try and do whatever they can to help their child go to US High School or College.

Stop looking at your kid with rose coloured glasses. Be realistic and assess them impartially.

I personally know of several parents 'paying' AUD 60,70,80,90/100K to send their kids to US College as a full fee paying student?? WTF?

IMHO - a few opinions:
0. Sounds like a few disgruntled parents (again)?

1. There is not enough money in Australian NBL/WNBL to have a youth league.

2. Being good as Junior, especially in Basketball, is unequivocally no guarantee that the player will make US College, State, SEABL, NBL/WNBL, Euro/NBA! Unfortunately that is the nature of Junior sport. Kids who mature early have an undeniable strength & speed advantage. For the boys, it doesn't start to even out until top age 18's or U20's. There are many cases of kids being Centre's in U16's and by U18's are only guard size. Needless to say many haven't worked on guard skills, haven't played as a guard and probably wouldn't have made a state team if they were a guard in U16 - as they're not good enough. They only made the team because (in general) they were big and strong.

2. I seriously question that the majority of kids that go to the AFL would have ever been good enough to make it in the NBL. Some may make state U16 Basketball teams or been on the cusp of selection, but most that I have seen over the last 9-10 years were probably never going to make state U18 or U20 teams for a variety of reasons (not big enough, not athletic enough, not a good enough shooter/finisher, not a good enough player, didn't have the right work ethic, had skill deficiencies that were never addressed, etc).

3. Do your research - how many kids who have made State U16 or U18 teams just fall off the basketball lanscape? I could name many that are not playing in State, SEABL, Big V leagues. They're just not good enough. Then there are the players like Kyle Adnam (Melb United) who never made a Junior State team. Why? My guess is because, for a basketball player, he was physically small/slight and still is. He didn't fit "the mould". I remember at State Talent ID camps coaches asking kids "How tall are your parents". I heard Andrew Bogut didn't make a State U18 team - because the coach/s didn't like his attitude.

Fact - The 2011 a National Championship winning U16 boy's team (Vic Metro) only had two players in the state U18 team two years later. I am sure there are many cases of this happening. Why? Development, maturity, other players working harder at their game, etc.

4. The NBL pool of teams is smaller now that it has been - this directly equates to a loss of roster spots. So 'back in the day' the likes of a Joe Ingles could go play NBL straight out of Juniors and have an impact. Who could do that now? Yes we've had the Ben Simmons/Dante Exum. But players like this are few and far between.

5. There are many players that have played Div 1 college that just aren't good enough for the NBL, let alone the State/SEABL leagues.

6. The NBL don't have limitless financial resources to uncover potential talent. The NBL clubs all keep an eye on the National Junior Champs and what's happening in US College. They have DP spots for up and coming players. So it is up to the player/s to 'earn a spot'. Game time is not going to be gifted and nor should it. The school of hard knocks.

7. Most NBL clubs are well connected in the Australian Basketball fraternity and know who is around. Good word travels.

8. Finally - how many kids have gone to the AIS (COE) over the last 20 years? Of those - how many have gone on to have a "reasonably" successful and lengthy professional careers (NBL, Europe, /USA)? My guess is less than half.

"The problem is not an NBL problem."

The NBL doesn't help though.

It is pretty simple.

There is a disconnect between NBL and state leagues.

There should be a junior NBL development league.

Look at what A-League do with their Youth League.

NBL should have the same thing. In the past when state leagues played at the same time as NBL this wasn't an issue. But like many problems that have stemmed with the change to a summer schedule, no one thought about having a second tier below NBL. Maybe LK can implement this next?


agreed, re a development league but isnt that what they use SEABL for and it should be for the women too

The problem is not an NBL problem.

High performance programs do a poor job at building and facilitating pathways for youth athletes, globally. Not an SA problem, it is across the board in all states. AUSA hoops have filled that void which has created other issues because they see Aus pathways as a competitor and now encouraging kids to go to US High Schools and turn their back on Aust pathways.

AFL on the other hand gets it right thus the talent leakage to US HIgh Schools is always compounded by youngsters going to footy.

Also another example - NRL has their National Youth Competition.

It is pretty simple.

There is a disconnect between NBL and state leagues.

There should be a junior NBL development league.

Look at what A-League do with their Youth League.

NBL should have the same thing. In the past when state leagues played at the same time as NBL this wasn't an issue. But like many problems that have stemmed with the change to a summer schedule, no one thought about having a second tier below NBL. Maybe LK can implement this next?

Joey Wright yes is one of the best NBL coaches re: keeping on the pulse with juniors.

Contrast him with someone like Gleeson who does nothing of the sort. Must be nice having an owner who gives you a $$$ import so development isn't necessary.

My bad, Joe was with the U18s: also a better argument against OPs claim.

This post makes me laugh.

Joey Wright is the most heavily connected NBL to local Juniors coach.

He coaches a district Under 18's girls side.

He watches countless games. He knows insane amounts of kids, their names their families from 9 years old up.

He has his eye on talent from little tackers. He mentors and coaches kids for PEANUTS. If we have the talent here, he knows exactly where it is and he will knock on their door if the NBL is the right path for them.

If they are really good, he will assist them open doors for College, Europe.

ALSO: He doesn't particularly warm to robot basketballers, he looks for something else. He may have an eye on a kid currently off the state radar.

Doyle never made a state squad, and he is a gun.

"You missed the point trying to be made I think"

I didn't miss the point at all. You just used the worst possible example to try and illustrate your point

Big Joe was with the ill fated u18s & their self promoting coach.

Fair points, 902. What I was getting at was that the results weren't in the favor those SA teams, and I haven't been particularly impressed from what I've seen of them over the past several years.

With regards to U20s, I was pointing out that Big Joe was heavily involved with the state team to rebut OP's claims that the 36ers aren't paying local talent any attention.

OP, Deng and Doyle both in the main team and both from SA. How many more do you want in the team to make it acceptable to you?

At the end of the day it is a business. They will pick the best available regardless of which state they are from.

Imports in the state league help lift the standard of play. Majority of the imports in ABA are dominating.

So much incorrect fact here.

First off the 6ers do a good job at monitoring kids in juniors. Did anyone see Joey at state champs? He was everywhere!

2nd of all. The 18s metro and country performance are not an indicator of talent or where these kids will end up. You need to understand development takes years and nationals results are not an indicator of player's potential or development. Physical maturity, yrs experience and process is more important and will pay off later on.

Remember the 20s that won gold that you are talking about having so many prospects. Finished 11th in 16s, 6th in 18s and now dominated U20s, with more Aussie reps, AIS guys, D1 college guys in the history of the sport in SA.

The 6ers would understand this about athlete development; it takes time and effort invested by players and those that support them. Too many pundits and commentators worry about things that don't matter and not enough about the things that do matter.

Pro teams would not even be looking at guys for DP spots from u18s, other than monitoring them. DPs come from Premier League, College, SEABL etc.

The Sixers are NOT looking at kids within this state! The poor finishes at 18's doesn't mean the talent from 1-10 is poor or not good enough when we are talking about 16 year olds in general.

You missed the point trying to be made I think, the point is why not use what you have here, OK you dont really look for imports for AFL, but do NBA really look for imports no they dont, the odd one gets through in WNBA but they are Aussies best usually not their left over washed up discarded players like we get here

The point should be , why dissuade young players from staying in the country or even in the sport all together by bringing in inferior imports

How often do you see ( in SEABL and BigV in particular) those same imports sent packing after only the first few weeks, thats because when they get here, the hype thats surrounded then to get them here has been just that hype, and our own players are just as good and usually far better.

Where exactly are AFL clubs supposed to get "imports" from?

Afraid it's the same every where, NBL/WNBL, and they wonder hey kids go to other sports, when their is absolutely NO incentive for any junior to hang around basketball in Australia.

The AFL their development leagues get paid more than half the NBL players in many cases and don't even begin to look at WNBL, their so called "new incentive" to increase women getting paid at least something is going to backfire on them in a big way as what they have failed to incorporate into that "incentive" is just how many paid players a team needs to have.
You will find teams will only be paying their first seven or eight players and probably #7 &8 will be on the bare minimum,the rest of the roster will be filled with " development players" the ones about to head off yo college so they don't have to pay them,
What happens then is they will continually be "developing" players but not ever getting them through the system, till one day they wake up and find they have teams of geriatric players.
No incentive for any player male or female to stay in Australia and play, or even stay in the sport
The NBL never has development players, instead they drag in inferior imports past their useby date to fill roster spots because they think crowds want to see imports.
How about encourage your own Aussie players and get them a following.
SEABL is exactly the same, inferior imports costing money instead of using that league to get your p,ayers developed.
You have to wonder just how much forethought those at the helm ever put into their decision making .

You look at how AFL flourishes and now this women's league, maybe take a leaf out of THAT book, not an import in sight folks

Yeh I wonder when Sydney will get off their butts and sign Josh Chapman. Awesome payer in the own backyard and yet they do nothing about it.

"Joey and the Sixers take absolutely no notice of the 18's, the NITP elite squad or the youth league players right under their nose."

From memory, SA Metro and Country's U18s finished 2nd and 3rd bottom respectively at Nationals earlier this year. The crop of talent just isn't good enough.

Conversely, Big Joe was the manager of the U20 SA team that won gold. Many of whom (4-5 when I last counted) have signed with US colleges. These kids could potentially play professionally, and would certainly be on the 36ers radar.

Lisch and Brown i understand but how does Wilkinson who did not even get called for a foul end up being reported

Usual confusion out of the NBL office who have used the refs not calling a foul as a reason not to report a player in the past.

Also begs the question if Wilkinson has been reported should he too been called for an USF. If that had happened then the swing of emotion may well have been different.

Does anyone recall how many fouls Wilkinson had at the time