Hoops

New team to SCM from SEABL

Yeah i think it is a given that they will end up needing to drop to SCM/W at some point if not next season it will be sometime soon.

The sooner they realize it is actually not that bad and do it the better.

So what will they drop to from SEABL?

Definitely not.

Is Frankston entering State Champ Men & Women next year?

So SEABL entry for two teams 60K vs State Champ 16K

Surely that can't be sneezed at. $44,000.00 better on the balance sheet before anything else. over 10 years that is close to half a Million dollars. I'm sure that would be a nice contribution to a stadium payment for a club like Frankston

Other than mount gambier never seen so many strange results, very tight indeed. Dandenong out of the south side for me.

Spending $800k is ridiculous. Not even Bendigo spends that much ;)

The answers are there. About $300K for 2 competitive sides.

So in summary: no one really knows.

To the idiot #641. Launceston only have a women's team, Sydney only have a women's team and no one said MTG had a women's team.

In addition a 2 team club has entry costs of $60k before paying anyone.

Just to clarify- remember that I said that some SEABL costs were shifted.

So $200K was men and women, halve that so $100K? Say men's team was $120K women's $80K. So it's close to the $70K just for men mentioned above. So $70-$120K seems like an indicative range for SEABL.

^ Wow thanks for letting us know. Talk about coming late to the party. We've moved on from the $500K BS figure.

^^ This was to the anon two posts above not ex coach. Good analysis ex coach.

^ Wow thanks for letting us know. Talk about coming late to the party. We've moved on from the $500K BS figure.

Not sure of the $70k per team.
2 x decent imports at minimum with accommodation and car costs = $30-40k
Paid Australian players = $20k
Coach minimum = $10k (unless employed as part of a bigger role at the club)

Competition Entry fees
Game presentation fees including postgame
Uniforms, medical, court hire, SEABL specific club admin costs

Financial statements at one SEABL club had it as $200,000 for their two teams combined, with some other costs shifted to other areas of the balance sheet. Total income attributed to SEABL ~ $7,000
I tried to find how much it costs to enter teams on both the SEABL and Big V websites- I am sure that these amounts were present on the websites at one time. But they have now disappeared.

To be brutal, if this was a purely economic decision, lots more clubs would be like Knox.

Few WNBL teams operate on a budget of 500k most are well below that
So no way any SEABL team would be having a budget of 500k

So $70K not $500K (lol). Makes sense.

A decent import will get $500-$600 pw. Plus car and accom as mentioned above.

Anon #639541 with the $500K remark was really just making it up. But good that this created a discussion with the above comment from someone who actually does know the reality. Thanks.

Sydney?
Everyone else pays for imports. Coaches get sfa. Admin staff? Since when. If there are admin staff they are part of the whole organisation, not seabl specific.
MtG don't have a womens team nor does Launceston.
and NWT.
Suggesting $500,000 is insane.
AFAIK seabl teams are now flying shitstar. Hire cars are generally cheap.
Imports pays are governed by the Oz government and they really don't earn a lot compared to any NBL player. Minimums infact.

Also Qantas/Virgin price gouge domestic regional routes like crazy as highlighted in the media recently. It all adds up.

Fly Mt Gambier, Canberra and Tasmania. You have to pay your coach, your imports, stud Australians, admin staff etc etc Also remember the flight costs are equalised so those same teams above fly every 2nd week, then add in hire cars or mini buses etc and it all adds up.

So Pioneers, Canberra (men and women), AIS, Launceston, Hobart (men and women), NWT and Sydney all fly every 2nd week roughly. Thats a lot of coin.

$500k for 2 seabl teams is way over the top.
More in the $300k+ area I would have thought. Most teams drive to games seeing as the majority of teams are in Melboune, geelong Bendigo and ballarat and albury.

Smart move by Frankston. Good to see them thinking about what's best for the club long term rather than short term "status" to make a small number of people feel good.

Also great for them to have a YL program again as they are the only club in Victoria that have a senior team but nothing between juniors and their senior program

Flights+accommodation do add up, but how much in total who knows.

Who do you think pays for all the flights? Travel is equalised across all teams. For a 2 team club (Men's and Women's) there is probably $50k difference (approx) between Big V and SEABL. Must SEABL programs would have a budget in the area of $500k

Anybody know the cost difference of the two comps , why is BigV more financially affordable than SEABL , they use similar stadiums , same score brnch and ref numbers , crt announcers etc AND it seems BigV teams in Sc pay bigger than SEABL for players
Yet the standard is well below that of SEABL

Coming from a number of sources, Frankston will have SCM/W and YL teams in Big V next year.

Bendigo struggling as well, very tight competition with mount gambier being the favourites. Sides that are getting a more even contributions going better than the one or two player big stat guys.

Chargers drop 2 on the road. Lose the to Tigers. Not good.

Technically they would be in YL2 as the league rules state that if you take a leave of absence you come back in at entry level ie Sherbrooke and Sth Pen men's teams playing D2M after previously playing SCM and D1M respectively. The reason Knox went straight to SCM/W was because they came from SEABL.

With that said, I'm sure if they were to bring their SEABL team in like what is rumoured, they would have some negotiating power.

IMO the first step would be to get a YL program happening and go from there. Surely that's the priority.

Technically they would be in YL2 as the league rules state that if you take a leave of absence you come back in at entry level ie Sherbrooke and Sth Pen men's teams playing D2M after previously playing SCM and D1M respectively. The reason Knox went straight to SCM/W was because they came from SEABL.

With that said, I'm sure if they were to bring their SEABL team in like what is rumoured, they would have some negotiating power.

IMO the first step would be to get a YL program happening and go from there. Surely that's the priority.

Poor admin/turning their noses up at bigv. Thought it was below them to have game essentials. Game PA announcers, programs, floor sweepers. Big v rightly so fines associations for not providing these.
Fines weren't paid, following season both teams' games were classed as 20-0 results. Both obviously finished bottom. So if they were to come back, they would be relegated to yl1.

Wet brittle egos sounded better .... lmao.

Known - I am unsure what you mean by the fact that Frankston does not have the depth for a youth side? They have under 20 and u18's VC teams do they not ??? If so there is the players right there. Who says they need to be winning championships if it is about development ?

The amount of clubs that recruit like a senior team in order to chase youth titles is a joke.

There is plenty of depth there at the moment for youth Thst depth currently leaves and ends up at other local clubs. The 6 younger players they have rotating through seabl should be in youth league getting time and developing under s legit coach.

Train them up to a point where they can push older aged players Out of the senior side.

The real reason they dropped out of youth was because of the fines they had racked up for not abiding by BIG V. Rules. If you recall both teams played out their final season for forfeits every game.

Take out the two wnbl players and the local D1 would hand the seabl Blues their ass.

What eva that is meant to say

Leave SEABL > ? > million$$$

Franga has a spare $1mill? Seriously?

Hi known,
My original post was to suggest that the investment by individual clubs into SEABL cannot be justified economically- the SEABL teams suck money out of clubs. So the committees of these clubs, normally populated by SEABL supporters, justify this investment in terms of aspirational motivations for their junior programs. But this justification does not survive scrutiny (and you correctly add Frankston women's team to my suggestion of Melbourne as outliers), and will be even more difficult to sustain with changes to SEABL rules.
Maybe the mid-point is that club teams should be in Big V, and some sort of regional team goes into SEABL (i.e. a combination of the best players from Frankston, McKinnon, Chelsea and Sandringham in the bayside region). But then the question is, who would subsidise these teams?
The other alternative is to keep it going as is- but eventually questions of yield for investment will be asked at many more clubs.

known that may be true for regional areas which don't have pro team so SEABL fills the gap, but for all the metro Melbourne teams it should be more about junior pathways. Perfect world SEABL would exist just in regional areas, with Melb metro teams going back to Big V and focus on juniors. imo

SEABL is NOT a development league. It is a national league until recently was not run by BA and may not be in the future. SEABL is whatever a club wants it to be. If you have a NBL/ WNBL program yes sure use SEABL as a development league. But for most clubs and small communities its the closest they will get to professional basketball team. What do we even need development leagues for in this country for anyway???? Its not like we are popping out NBA and WNBA players by the Truck load. A country this size and the fact that Basketball is a second tier sport maybe even third after swimming. I think it is saturated with leagues that produce mediocre results because talent is so spread out. Use the state leagues for development and SEABL and WNBL/NBL are the pro leagues that run year round to keep borderline athletes playing, for the quality opals and boomers to stay home and play and for those past it can still ply ball.

And for the record Frankston has only 6 senior players and have played juniors consistently this season to their detriment. I know of at least 9 juniors who have suited up and logged good minutes for their women's side. So it is a viable pathway for those athletes as depth of talent for youth league is not there.

In saying that what are we developing these players for??
NO one values these leagues and you dam sure cant make a living from it??

^agree , something should be done to ensure your local players actually have a pathway not just a token one or two thrown in. SEABL should not have Impoetscat all really , clubs should be working on developing their juniors so the can be at that level , they don't develop sitting on the bench
And the NBL and WNBL players that come down to SEABL should be those that are sitting on the bench playing very few of any minutes in games not the starting five players who are already "developed" and getting game time

SEABL should be the development league for the next wave of Australian WNBL and NBL players not MBA and WNBA players ..... the imports that come for SEABL are inferior to most of what sits on the dam
Bench in many cases , give the local players the opportunity to strengthen their skills, in the long run it benefits our leagues

You would think they would change the rules to reduce imports/outside players. Have a rule about certain amount of players having to come from your junior program? I sense SEABL keeps going further and further away from what it should be for. They think of themselves as a mini NBL rather than the pinnacle of junior pathway. Sucks.

At Frankston there is not a single player from their juniors that would be ready to play SEABL in the next 5+ years. Especially seeing there is NO YOUTH LEAGUE Program.

SEABL for Frankston is NOT a pathwayfor juniors at the moment. Yes it was previously but it is not at the moment.

Why would they want to run a program that hemorrhages money and provides no additional benefit to their overall program?

As far as I know, most clubs that go into SEABL subsidise their teams- the SEABL program at most/all clubs does not return a profit. In public discourse the clubs do so 'to provide their juniors with an aspirational goal to achieve'- SEABL becomes the top of the developmental pyramid at the club.
In reality, most SEABL clubs seem to be more interested in recruitment from outside, rather than development from within (the most obvious exception would be Melbourne Tigers womens team and, before respondents suggest it, I have nothing to do with that club).
The changes to the SEABL competition rules regarding Asia/Oceania imports and reducing the points value of NBL/WNBL players will make it easier to import more players to club-based teams.
So the question needs to be addressed at each club- what value are we getting in subsidising teams made up of imported (US and local) players?

Just the men. In the East conference the bottom 2 teams are clearly out of it. In the South conference take away the bottom 2 teams and the next team above them has the same number of wins in the East. That's how close it is. A few slip up from those further up the top could see them slip out of the 4 very easily.

"you do realize their are also women playing SEABL dont you^"

So? Maybe he just follows the men's?

CoE are hardly ever competitive. Tigers are a basketcase and don't tell franga they are no good. having just beaten the Spectres. Equally Sandy got a recent scalp too.
I believe next season CoE will play a full season (about time)

you do realize their are also women playing SEABL dont you^ and the original post was about both SCM & SCW,dont think its the same in that comp, in fact its only in the mens South comp that it looks to be an even comp, the mens EAST have a clear division between top two, then next three.

Two teams in each conference have not been that competitive, Coe, Candberra, Melbourne and Frankston, all other teams can beat anyone. Mount gambier look a class above but the rest is pretty even.