Hoops

OKC Thunder vs Melb United, Mon 8th Oct

Yeah I agree, Spot Up.
The reality is that regardless of the importance of this game or the rotations used by the Thunder, this was a team full of NBA players playing on their home court to their normal rules, and an understrength NBL team held their own under some pretty trying travel circumstances.
Fair enough to keep a lid on how carried away to get about it, but to me there is nothing remotely negative you can say about it either. It was an undisputed positive for the NBL. The only debate is how big.

Having said that, I very much doubt that the Brisbane game is going to go a similar way based on what they showed in Perth the other night.

Seriously..why would anybody take any negatives out of this game and the result. The only negative thing that happened was that Goulding and Hooley got injured and couldn't play.

Even Melb Utd taking the opportunity to include a couple of local G league guys is a positive, it means they can have a look at these guys and then if Ware gets picked up by an NBA team they might have someone they want to get on board.

A lot of people have taken two arguments and fused them into one. There's a) how competitive the NBL is and b) how good Australian players are. Big difference

BTW ferguson talked trash to Melb, tounge in cheak, he said he was an Adelaide boy and gave respect to the NBL

Do the haters realise NBA has imports too, they are called Dirk, Pau and Marc Gasol, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, etc etc some very key players in NBA titles have also been imports, just not spoken about in the NBA, as they get the bigger picture,

By the sounds of Cram also wants Ned Kelly as the NBL logo

@ #649727


I thought the same about Ferguson, made me think his transition to the NBA and his recent trash talk after Adelaide took him on for a year to assist him in his dream was a bit of a kick in the guts.

He was never once a factor in a 36ers game so not sure what makes him thinks he's going to be now. He should look to Brandon Jennings and see where his mouth got him.

Great effort regardless of whether United had a few G League fillins, they were never going to make a difference because theres a reason they're not in the nba. Probably goes to show the only difference the NBA and NBL is the absolute top line players in the NBA.

Also want to hear thoughts on Terrence Ferguson, talked trash before game and probably had his stock dip after this game. He won't be able to guard witches hats in the nba and his jumper is shakier than Andre Roberson's

Recored the live broadcast to fast forward through ads. LOL @ watching the replay which can be delayed due to playoff baseball which always goes over the allotted time.

Isn't this supposed to be on espn2 now? get this baseball OUTTA HERE!

United trying to capitalise on the game this morning by sending SMS to people outside of Victoria with "interstate membership" offer.

Holt wasn’t considered under the Oceania rule. It was the league trying to introduce an Asian player rule conveniently at the time that they (Melbourne) had a top-line Asian player playing for them as an import.

Holt was and still is an import.

Will be interesting to see if true Wesley can't play as local anymore after this season. Not sure he would get picked up by anyone as an import.

If you think being the exception worries me you're mistaken. I've made mu case and I'm fine with eveeyone else sticking to their guns.

Holt, played the whole season im pretty sure, are you thinking of Stephen Dennis re the injury.

I heard they looked at keeping him as a local the next year, but he didnt fit the citeria, hence he is still a import today

Dome Rat if we are still in Oceania but playing in Asia wouldnt both regions count now? How can it go to Oceania only to now being Asia only.

Summary of this thread:

1.) Everyone is happy
2.) Except Cram (Melb Tigers bitterness)

According to Cram you can be proud of Melbourne United, but you can't be proud of Aussies.

Seriously, who gives a fk... the point is promotion of the league.

The thigns Cram is concerned about aren't relevant to mainstream appeal, discussion or awareness.

For anyone who downplays it as OKC were in pre season mode, what were you expecting pre game??

Before the game, even with OKC in pre season mode, even with the big 3 playing less than they did i expected Melb to lose by atleast 20 points.

So to get alot closer than that is a great effort, how can anyone not be happy with that.

Like no one is pretending Melbourne could beat a NBA playoff team like OKC going all out, or that Casper Ware is as good as Westbrook or anything, we are just proud that Melb did alot better than most were expecting, how can you not be!!

Holt always played as import in the NBL

Wesley has alwyas played as an Oceania local, this was debated and decided a couple of years ago and has stayed the same since

Cram, here's the thing- The majority of people on here disagree with you.

No matter how much you kick and scream, no one is going to agree with you.

You are the exception. You are on your own. Your opinions are so misguided you have not been able to find anyone in this thread to agree with you.

Your complaints for trivial, and so obscure that in the big scheme of what this NBLxNBA exercise is about, they are lost and irrelevant to the cause.

But you are entitled to your opinion and if your opinion makes you happy, please keep flogging your dead horse.

The fill ins is a none issue, i cant see why anyone would be upset by it

They were insurance, even at full strength Melbournes guard line up is a little thin with in experienced back ups in Adnam and Hooley, now take out Goulding plus Holley, it leaves them with just Ware and Adnam, obvoisuly going up against a NBA team they would be keen to atleast replace Goulding with a fill in stronger than Adnam, and leave Adnam as a back up, as it could be very embarrassing otherwise.

There are so many positives in this result and adventure, i cant believe people are so negative and try to down play it cos they have fill ins who play less than half the game each, and NBL teams have American imports, well no shit.

What would you rather take the imports out, have no fill ins, replace them with SEABL aussies and get smashed by 60 points and make the NBL look really bad??

When will some people ever be happy?

Cram has obviously never played a 10.15pm game on a Tuesday night when only 4 of you show up and you somehow get that weird ring in nobody knows the name of to take the 5th spot.

They had 11 healthy players. If I was a united fan I'd wanna see those 11 guys go to battle, not some nobodies that we'll never hear from again.

Wesley - Local / Oceania
Anderson - Local
Barlow - Local
Moller - Local
Majok - Local
Adnam - Local
Smith-Milner - Local DP
Short - Local DP | DNP

Ware - Import
Prather - Import
Boone - Import

Dawkins - Fill in
Cleveland - Fill in
Stith - Fill in | DNP

Goulding - Injured
Hooley - Injured

Melbourne United plays in the Australian/NZ NBL and follows all rules regarding the number of local player and import players allowed. Considering injuries, and a last minute injury at that, I can't see how it wasn't reasonable to call in fill-ins against an NBA team which is traditionally a deeper roster than we have in the NBL.

If this happened to be Illawarra facing off against an NBA team and they got within a point with their 3 imports would anybody kicking up a stink? I don't think so. It's easier to stick the boots in to a capital city team, scream fraudulent activity, and try to talk down the amazing fact that a professional basketball team assembled and competing in Australia kept up with an arguably top 3 team in the world.

99% of people watching these games have no idea about the NBL. Those 99% now have some idea and will see it's a league stacked with talent, that's viable option for players of any nationality to forge a career or in T-Ferg's case a launching pad to make it to the NBA Draft, and the games may be exciting to watch.

And as a dual citizen myself (also from a Pacific island) I'm sure Wesley is more than happy and proud to play as an Oceanic player and represent Australia/NZ NBL.

An NBA n00b basketball following friend of mine responded to the result like this:

"Are OKC that bad?"

Seriously we can't win.

Rjd, I'm not downplaying the result, I'm downplaying the "greatest thing ever" absurdity.

The nba does have a minimim suited players rule, but its closer to 9 than 15.

Barlow only played 18 minutes. Adnam, Moller and Majok less than 13 each. Much rather see those guys get more of a run than the ring ins. Then a dp gets a few minutes. That's a team to be more proud of as its an actual NBL team.

OKC playing pre-season, sure, trying out some new lineups.

Meanwhile, United playing in an away venue, playing under different rules, with an extra 8 minutes of game length, travelled a ridiculous distance in a short time (road trips for one game don't get much longer than this) in a polar opposite time zone, without their leading scorer and another injured player, needing to inject ring-ins that know nothing about the system and frankly played like G-league players forcing shots for attention.

These guys kept an NBA team featuring 3 superstars playing major minutes to 86 points. OKC solidly ran their starting players. This same OKC team scored over 100 a few days ago against the Pelicans. Yet people are still downplaying United in the face of all these obstacles?

(or 12 players, or whatever it is)

It also might come down to positions.

Goulding and Hooley are both guards. They could hardly have played a DP who was a big man to cover their minutes could they? (Without significantly disrupting roster balance and who plays what role within the set plays, etc)

Isn't there some official NBA rule where you need to suit up 15 players?

I'm pretty sure it came down to pure numbers.

And besides, whilst I'm glad Smith Milner and Dillon Stith got a bit of a run, I don't think the NBA or NBL would necessarily want Development players getting significant minutes. Having Big V players going up for extended periods against the likes of Westbrook obviously has *potential* to be a bit farcical.

The two Americans were really only there to provide spot minutes to cover for the rostered NBL contracted players who needed a sub. They played 18 and 13 minutes. So that's fine with me. It was Melbourne United with a bit of injury cover brought in.

If you have 11 in your team, plus 2 DPs, even with 2 injuries why do you need ring ins?

Crowd number?

The ring-ins aren't an issue since on short notice Goulding and Hooley were injured. It's not it was planned but out of desperation.

Cram the NBL had to try something and LK is giving it the best go we've ever had. Don't see the problem. The alternative is not to pump any money in and let the league plod on like it did forever. I'll take the former.

"2. Why not take young development players rather than adding evidently shite americans?"

They did take some development players.

Also, part of the problem bringing more would've been the short notice.

Goulding fell ill on Wednesday I believe, they played Thursday and had a flight to Dallas booked in on Friday. They would've flown straight from Adelaide.

And then Hooley got injured in the US the day before the game.

And they may well see a bump from that. It won't be enough to justify the spending though.

Cram, do you honestly think the average person seeing a headline knows anything about G-League ring-ins or Wesley not being local? Next game, they can go and see Ware, Boone and Prather play for their team, regardless of their country of origin.

Had Goulding been fit, I don't think they would have felt like they needed to call in help. That would've given them Ware, Goulding, Prather, Wesley, Boone. Then Andersen, Barlow, Majok, Moller, etc.

The news.com.au headline is "NBA MVP humbled by Aussie battlers". There's another story saying:

"'Proud’: United, NBL are no ‘s**t’ - Melbourne United v Oklahoma City Thunder MELBOURNE United is the darling of the Aussie basketball world after a stunning performance against the Oklahoma City Thunder this morning. "

The Age's top sport story is: "'This league is no joke': United shine against Oklahoma City"

Not sure how that doesn't work for the league. The next two talking points will be that they did it without Goulding, and that PG/RWB/Melo all played. That won't hurt at all with the "NBL is lame, NBA is the best" teenagers.

If they get more games next year or a chance to host any, that will be fantastic too.

1. 7 Americans is a stretch from anything of the past. Even if teams had 2 or even 3 naturalised players (rare) there were at least as many Aussies.
2. Why not take young development players rather than adding evidently shite americans?
3. 3 import rule when there are only 8 teams is absurd. Australia has so much good talent and the NBL should be about giving them pathways.
4. I have maintained it was a great result for the team. Mu only problem is the claims that this was some monumental moment for Aussie basketball. It was simply a g league team with Melbourne written on their jersies. It may well be a good promotion for the team and the league, but nothing that will justify the money that continues to be spent assembling these rosters.

Cram is obviously alluding to the many times wealthy owners backed NBL superteams, creating unsustainable spending by the competition, only then for these same "superteams" to run into financial issues because the wealthy owners go down and take the team with them. So the result is two-fold, as their reckless spending inflates salaries and strains the competition, then their own financial collapse ruins the team. I think it is obvious he was referring to the Sydney Kings Tim Johnson Firepower era (the fraud reference) and the Bullets collapse after their ABC Centres owner went down. Those accusing Cram of accusing LK of fraud either don't understand NBL history, or are being dicks.

The NBL has had many Americans playing as naturalised Australians in the past on some strong teams in key roles. The Tigers have run a few naturalised Americans themselves over the years. I seem to recall American players like Vince Hinchen in the 1990s and Darryl McDonald in the 2000s. Imports from the 1990s that stayed on in Australia and became naturalised are numerous: Rose, Simmons, Crawford, Fisher, Loggins, Davis, Grace just to name a few.

Three of the Americans in this United team were ring-ins that were not of much value. It was disappointing that injury necessitated the use of ring-ins, and that United's best Aussie player was out, but it's not like the ring-ins were particularly good contributors. So United used their 3 import quota and included a NZ naturalised player. What am I missing?

When....folowed by a list of options. Walk on.

"I'm simply listing things that could happen (and have in our league on an all too regular basis) with every generous benefactor to date. I am not alleging that LK has committed any fraud."

No...you used the word WHEN, that is a clear statement.

I really hope his lawyers contact you soon.

And I should add, plenty of general sports followers like the NBA, even if they aren't huge basketball fans.

Some of them are paying attention to the NBL today.

All the cynics have some pie in their face today.

The only problem for United, LK and the NBL is that the whole thing might have a bit of downside too, if they lose the NBL's resident star point guard out of this....

The first part of your reply was a fair assessment anon #649642. I've readily admitted that I am clouded wheb it comes to LK.

But I would be equally dubious of claims of "great day for our league" claims if Sydney trotted out 7 Americans.

Believe me or don't. I'm not concerned.

When the Tigers won their drought breaking championship in 2006, signalling the start of the successful Westover era, 3 of their 4 most important players weren't Aussie. Neither was the coach.

But irrespective of that, The NBL is the Aussie league- it started here, and 90% of the games are played here with all but one team being located here.

Aussies who don't follow our national league are today paying some attention.

Worth celebrating? Absolutely.

Instead of arguing about this, I'd rather celebrate the stories- Moller, playing AFL a couple of years ago today representing the NBL against the MVP of the NBA. Adnam, a kid from the burbs who looks about 15 years old, about 5 foot 8, the ultimate underdog out there competing against a squad worth $100+ million a week out from the season.

Casper Ware, the charismatic, smiling assassin bringing it in OKC.

Loving all of this.

I'm happy for LK. He flew with NBL execs during NBA All-Star Game 2017 to finalise arrangements for the pre-season games. Nice reward for his team to be the ones who got oh so close. Well done LK keep up the good work.

I'm simply listing things that could happen (and have in our league on an all too regular basis) with every generous benefactor to date. I am not alleging that LK has committed any fraud.

One-eyed against United, that is.

Cram you're more one-eyed than LV now since the Tigers were renamed United.

And the red herrings you're trying to throw out are so obviously desperate on a great day for our league.

Cram : "But when he gets bored/broke/dies/goes down foe fraud"

Cram : "I'm making no accusations of fraud against LK."