Hoops

NH: Australia Day, or Invasion Day

Nothing escaped me my friend. I was just passing on some thoughts that an indigenous person expressed who doesn't see the need to change the date

Personally I don't have a problem with changing the date. What I do have a problem with is the process that will inevitably need to be gone through, the same as we've gone through with SSM. Millions of dollars will be thrown at it by politicians patting themselves on the back over what a fucking amazing thing they're doing while indigenous kids will continue to live in squalor and be abused.

If someone could just whack the rubber stamp on it and go...."Ok the date now is...." I'd be more than happy. No one will have the balls to do it though and unfortunately irrelevancies like the Greens will never have the power to do anything on their own

The former what?

It is basically what I had thought, they want to watch the world burn.

LoveBroker - you're talking about a minority of a minority rather than a broader community. It's the same when sports fans say "36ers fans wanted to sack x last week, and now they love him!!!11!" - it's almost always different subsets of a group with contrasting opinions. There'd be similar elements on either side of any issue.

Anarchists, preppers, etc. Extreme views often stand out. Westboro Baptist are an example.

There'd be varying levels of support for messages about offshore camps, mining, changing the flag and so on, but I don't know that there'd be many people fully behind that list.

The Project piece where whites reduced aboriginal population by 90 percent was sad to see...

It was never going to end with changing the Australia Day date.

It is basically what I had thought, they want to watch the world burn.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/abolish-australia-says-indigenous-group-behind-invasion-day-rally-20180130-p4yz1z.html

Here is the offensive post in question....extract below (language censored).

https://www.facebook.com/WARcollective/?hc_ref=ARR4yKEyoJwb3PEB8ARpiWbum7FyUpCVvdUPHscWWboTm1NrfI9_2U7Ex7o6S_TxPH8&fref=nf

"In response to the attacks on WAR members and the call to burn Australia to the ground at the Naarm Abolish Australia Day Rally, we would like to issue the following statement:

F$%k Australia.
F$%k your land theft, your child stealing and your state sanctioned murders.
F$%k your governments, your military and your police.
F$%k your concentration camps dressed up as correctional facilities and immigration detention centres.
F$%k your economy, your greed and your cult of the almighty dollar.
F$%k your poisoning of water, your wholesale destruction of land and your pollution of our atmosphere.
F$%k your language forced upon us and violently attempting to replace our very own.
F$%k your white supremacy, your patriarchy and your capitalism.
F$%k your flag, your anthem and your precious national day.
WAR will not rest until we burn this entire rotten settler colony called Australia, illegally and violently imposed on stolen Aboriginal land at the expense of the blood of countless thousands, to the F$%king ground, until every corrupt and illegal institution of white supremacist, patriarchal, capitalist settler colonial power forced upon us is no more. We will not rest until we build a society that cares for and honours the Earth, our mother, that respects the interconnectedness of all beings, that is founded on our sovereignty and responsibility to this country and the people who live on it, and that offers a place of safety and prosperity for our people and for all those oppressed and excluded by the current systems of power - refugees, people of colour, LGBTQIA people, poor people, disabled people.
Abolish Australia, not just Australia Day"

Modern day slavery still exists in 2017 a primce example being in as Mauritania (Arabs have negro slaves) yet the mainstream media never discuss it. Hypocrites.

There are often articles about captured workers in the Middle East (from Asia and the sub-continent). Western media write about things which fire up their readers, and this doesn't. Dozens of non-white people die abroad in a bombing or earthquake, and it's overwhelmed by the news of one white kid going missing closer to home.

You don't need to look up the chain to the media. This thread is evidence: non-white antagonists angling for a date change inflames discussion in a predominantly white Western country. Would this discussion be anywhere near as heated if it was a fairly neutral white dude campaigning to replacing the Queen's Birthday holiday with something fairly plain? People would fire up if it were infidels trying to change a religious tradition. Or "the other side" of politics. It's tribalism in each case.

Trump has been killing unemployment ever since the end of the USA subprime mortgage crisis.

It's true that this country has not been kind to its original inhabitants.
However, it would be/ would have been a lot worse for them had an Asian country colonised IMO.

Loved the GWB skit on SNL this past weekend. Summed it up nicely. He was thought of as a dumb and evil president yet he suddenly looks great compared to the latest guy. It's one thing to be ineffective, it's another thing to turn the rest of the world and your own country against you in the process because you're not only stupid but also stubborn, short-tempered, dodgy, and offensive.

One last thing...you and the other alt-right incels are the ones being dismissive because every time someone raising a point, you immediately refute it with “SJW snowflake.” Can you at least try and be original, Tomi Lahren?

I’m dismissive because you and others are talking absolute shit. I know that you are talking shit because I’ve bothered to find out what is true and what isn’t eg unemployment down under Trump while Obama did nothing, Trump was never called a racist until he got in to office etc.

If you can’t handle someone knowing more about something than you, that’s unlucky. I would have thought you’d have been used it by now.

'I think I'm correct because I find stuff out'

congratulations..need there be any more proof of the self entitled Left way of thinking?

The sheer arrogance and dismissive attitude to any differing point of view is staggering.

It's merely your opinion, that's all.

You preach tolerance yet in the very next breath abuse, label and belittle.

You are really struggling to follow the simplest of conversations here.

Trump wasn't a racist until he got into office apparently so think its a bit of a pushed agenda suddenly calling him that now.

He's been racist way longer than that.

wow...seems no one can have a differing opinion from you at all

in actual fact I don't think Trump is vile or racist, despite you believing everyone has to think that

stock market up, unemployment down, blue collar workers of America getting back to work

I know you just love Obama, the champion of great oracle delivery, who achieved squat in his term in office

despite Trump being elected you just can't seem to deal with that fact or accept it. So throw the name-calling accusations at Trump as your kind do when they don't get their way.

nothing like a Leftie snowflake becoming abusive..if you don't agree with them the name calling and labelling comes to the fore...vile racist, misogynist.

it just becomes tiresome, predictable and boring

From the Facebook page of Jacinta Nampijinpa Price. It's long, a bit harrowing in parts, but very worth the read.

I want to share this letter sent to me by a woman I regard as a sister. She is a true survivor and the kind of Aboriginal woman our leaders need to listen to, especially Greens Leader Di Natale!! Hear her words and please share her story! -

I’ve spent an hour trying to figure out how to start this letter and there’s no easy or good way to start it, I can’t pretty it up and I can’t be sensitive because I’m just so angry.
Over the last few days we have seen The Greens party cause a huge division between us, Indigenous pitted against Indigenous, Black against whites in what I can say is some of the most vile and racist hate speech I’ve ever seen, those defending the Greens have played right into their hands like the puppets you are, you think you’re smart but you’re not. Have you ever read the story of The Pied piper? The Greens are the piper and you’re the rats.

I see so much screaming and crying over the date, the 26th of January, the national day of Australia, Australia Day but not the correct date of the first fleet arriving, more fool you. So foolish to believe that the people crying for changing the date actually care about you? They don’t care about you! They care about division, widening the gap not closing it, a fool is easily parted from his family.

Not once! Not one time have I seen The Greens or labor speak out, not once have I seen you Indigenous cohorts speak out! Not once! You have never spoken out about stopping the violence, stopping the alcoholism, stopping the child abuse and sexual assault, no, you just want to talk about how “White man” has some how oppressed you. Oppressed you? Excuse you! Most of you leading the pack are well educated, had opportunities some of us only dare dreamed about, you manipulate the mobs, especially the ones less educated or fortunate for your own selfish white hating reasons! Shame on you! Shame shame shame!

I grew up in a violent alcohol fuelled family filled with some of the most abhorrent acts committed upon my mother, upon myself. My childhood wasn’t living, it was surviving from one day to the next. I don’t remember a great Christmas, a birthday that didn’t turn violent a night where I didn’t hide under my blankets hoping that he wouldn’t come into my room. That leads me to ask where were you?

When I was 6 years old, yes SIX, I had my first nervous breakdown, I couldn’t take it anymore and my mind and body gave up, my soul withered and I was but a shell of my former self, but where were you? Were you speaking up for me? Were you there to stop the real oppression the real danger to my life? A lot of you were children yourself but where were the older ones? The mothers, fathers, aunts and uncles? The politicians? The outstretched hand? No you weren’t there!
Where were you when I watched my mother get raped and bashed until you couldn’t recognise who she was? Where were you when he held us all hostage and tried to cut our throats? Where were you when I faced an onslaught of sexual abuse? Where were you when he chased us down and tried bashing my mothers head in with a bullroarer? Where were you when almost every night in my house something violent happened? Where were you when he’d sneak into my room like a thief in the night to steal my childhood? Where were you the first time I tried to kill myself aged 9? There’s so much more and it would take me a week to write it down, but where were you? You weren’t there and you still aren’t there! Luckily for me my grandmother was there, eventually my mother threw me away when I was sexually assaulted yet once again, this time by an “uncle” there was more than one offender that hurt me, I lost count, now that’s sad. Can you change all the dates I was hurt?

You cry and you scream about changing the date while there are children like me, little boys and girls living the same life I did as a child, living in constant fear of violence and sexual abuse. No, white man didn’t oppress me, white man didn’t commit those repulsive abhorrent acts, white man failed me in the way that he failed to take me and my brother away from my mother. But we mustn’t talk about the real issues effecting the indigenous community to this day! To this very day! Is it racist to speak out? NO! You professional victims cry about a date while real victims suffer horrors only seen in nightmares or in a movie, no, that’s not accurate, the greatest horror writer on the planet would cringe if he heard my story, the story of children still suffering today.

You say it’s “racist” to even speak of these issues, it’s not racism, it’s realism. I have no time for you and your virtue signalling change the date crap. Your voice is only loud when you want to play the victim. My grandmother an indigenous elder tried so hard to take me off my mother when I was a baby, but no, the authorities wouldn’t do that as it would be racist so they left me to suffer but I didn’t let that stop me, I didn’t let the abuse and poverty get in my way. Yes I did become an alcoholic when I was 13 it was easy to deal with the pain, then one day I woke up, I was 16 I decided I was not going to let the past destroy my future, I swore to myself I would never turn out like my mother, but I did, for 3 brutal years I did, for 3 brutal years I’d send my babies away out of danger so it was only me, was it racism that drove the police and DOCS to threaten to take my babies if I didn’t leave? Was it racism that saw them drag him away so the kids and I could pack and flee? No, that was humanity, that was addressing the issue, racism didn’t play a part, they didn’t see colour, they seen violence and terror the only difference is there was no grog, no drugs, he did it because he enjoyed it.

So while you’re sitting there with your privilege screaming about changing the date, I’ll be sitting here with no privilege except for what I’ve given to myself and I’ll be speaking out about the real issues and fighting for justice for myself and for every other child that is a mirror of me. Personally I’ll keep the date, some of the good memories I have is from that date, you see I spent most Australia Days with my nan, she would have BBQ’s where family and friends would get togeather and play cricket and laugh, us kids would play and play, I never wanted those days to end. My nan always taught me that it was about unity not division, she taught me not to hate, she told me stories of old passed down and from her own memories, she taught me not to hate the people of today for the sins of yesterday, my nan was all about love and without her I wouldn’t be the strong proud woman I am today. On Australia Day, celebrate don’t hate.

That’s all I have to say, I’m getting too upset, the memories of the past never fade to a living victim, a real victim, but we go on, stronger louder and prouder.

If we blames others for our problems we'll never grow and accept our own failures thus creating a cycle

I agree with this and I think it's absolutely something that should be encouraged/motivated at every step, but I think if you only hold to that as a general rule for a broader society, you'll continually fall short of an ideal future. And that goes for first people overrun by settlers and for a social underclass that doesn't get off their arse or whoever else. We're clever animals and often not much more - we're lazy, we get addicted, we make mistakes - I'd say that describes every human to some degree (it describes me - I just came home, sat in front of a screen, ate corn chips, and made the questionable decision to debate something online). It adds a load of noise to "In theory, if everyone took some responsibility..."

Two loose examples of where I think "In theory..." fails:

Homelessness. It costs the community money in terms of welfare, policing and so on. There was a trial in Utah where they discovered that the cheapest "solution" was actually to give homeless people a house. It was cheaper than police and medical support, shelters, social workers, etc. Now, one quick reaction to that is "Why should they get a free house? Why can't I have a free house?" Another is that this was the cheapest and most effective solution to a problem. It wouldn't be the only part of a strategy, but it might be the core of one. However, you can imagine the social resistance. I imagine most would take the position that "They should just get a job" and then live with people falling through the cracks forever around them. You can see what it looks like in San Francisco.

Contraception and abstinence. Obviously if you can convince all youths and adults not planning to conceive to abstain, you don't need contraception. But as I understand it, there have been countless studies showing that sex education involving contraception rather than purely advocating abstinence is more effective. Provide a broader education, provide contraception (pill, condoms, whatever) for free, and I imagine you'll reap the rewards (lower crime, etc) later. But I'd bet anyone who reads much of the internet would've seen arguments like "Why should I pay so that little tramp can get laid?!"

I wonder if we'll ever see a country experiment with making decisions through evidence-based AI rather than politicians exploiting our instincts?

Can the MAJORITY of Aboriginals be canvassed on their thoughts/priorities/needs?

That part I wholeheartedly agree with.
Before we get too carried away telling each other what they want, we could maybe ... ask them?

Having said that I'm still struggling to understand why some people are so vehemently opposed to the idea of the date maybe changing in the future, as if it's untouchable for some reason and some kind of failure if we hypothetically change something for the better.

really?

treating them like shit for centuries?

the millions of dollars that have been thrown needlessly as 'guilt' money for decades is astonishing.

Aboriginals are given many advantages in this day and age financially and in resources to address inequities.

Certainly more could be done.

I understand this will never erase the past.

NOTHING WILL.

But the victim mentality needs to stop. Activists and bleeding hearts need not speak on behalf of all aboriginals.Can the MAJORITY of Aboriginals be canvassed on their thoughts/priorities/needs?

This is a valid topic, generally speaking Australians are very patriotic, some a little over the top but we do love to acknowledge ourselves and each other everywhere, in sport or anything really.

However, when it comes to Australia Day (or what it probably should be called - Discovery Day or Settlement Day - 'Invasion Day' may be too divisive for us right now), I absolutely agree with some changes.

If we must have that date (Jan 26th) remembered, yes, remember it with some form of silence and recognition of the plight of our indigenous inhabitants who have still not recovered from being treated so poorly. Then perhaps celebrate a new beginning, but do it with some respect and humanity.

I for one would also like Federation Day to be recognised as the real Australia Day, however once again looking into the future, WHEN we finally break our ties with the monarchy and declare ourselves free of the royal ties, that day would be worth celebrating, whenever it comes.

For those who think it was wonderful that the English came here in 1788, remember that they were an empire and it was their agenda to spread their culture and religion all over the globe, for power, control and wealth that initiated the discovery in the first place. Not to mention finding a place for convicts to be out of sight, tortured and punished.

I am not for one second saying we don't have a great standard of living here today and I acknowledge Terra Australis (The South Land) would have been discovered (in fact was) and would have been settled by another empire eventually regardless.

What I am saying is that we need to acknowledge that the Aboriginals of today are still very much impacted by the addictions, crimes and oppression forced onto them since English settlement and empirical rule.

For what it's worth, KET you have been on the money and if we cannot learn from history, if we cannot acknowledge our history and if we are unable to be honest about it, we should not rejoice!

Reality, who's blaming all white people? Seems like a strawman argument.

It surprises me that fellow white people think of changing this as a loss. If I don't care much about the date, but others really, really do, isn't the net result of that implying that a move could ultimately help? I don't lose out if I get a public holiday on January x rather than January 26.

The massacres perpetrated were significantly weighted towards the Aboriginal population. I don't know if decent people have made attempts to ignore that or suggest that settlers weren't also killed. I assume it'd be fairly commonly understood. You can learn a bit more about efforts to catalogue it here.

What he is alluding to is Aboriginals probably claim more benefits (unemployment etc) than others so they shouldn't complain.

Not surprised that they do, given the generations of upheaval they've faced. I think the quickest solution to that (and for anyone really) is somewhat orthogonal rather than direct critique. I think we perpetuate many issues (immigrants being another*) with our instinctive approaches.

There's a Radiolab podcast called Mau Mau which talks about the British in Kenya decades ago. It finishes with a really stark note that goes a very small way towards helping you understand what it must feel like to go from having some sort of place, identity and existence to losing what you had hoped to pass on to your children and their children. Must've been devastating.

* An example of this is talking of immigrants clumping in ghettos, but knowing that there are people abusing, glaring, raising fears and the like. The Sudanese gangs are the Asian triads decades before, or the Europeans before that. I think of Australian culture as a shifting thing and unfortunately a lot of friction comes from how our identification/understanding lags the reality. Takes generational change (on both sides) to solve these things the way we act now.

"What he is alluding to is Aboriginals probably claim more benefits (unemployment etc) than others so they shouldn't complain."

I know people might find this hard, but I don't actually mind if Aboriginals get a bit more government benefit than "others" Although 2% of the population, a significant portion of that population lives in rural and remote areas and in poorer urban areas. Aboriginal culture is more complex than some people understand.

Generally life expectancy and other health related markers are significantly lower than the rest of the population. Drug and alcohol issues as well as domestic abuse levels are higher than other groups. Spending money to rectify those issues is not money wasted. However, some money is wasted. For example, in 1989 an (Aboriginal) employee of mine who was a very good worker decided to leave because the government gave him $30,000 to set up a small business. "I'm becoming a butcher" "...do you have any butchering experience Shane?" "no" Six months later he came back to work.

As a society, I think we want to ensure the gap between the have and the have-nots is not too large.

On a personal note, I do know one of my direct ancestors did kill an Aboriginal with a pitchfork in 1830 when a group of Aboriginals ransacked his farm and speared him 3 times. In 1912 one of my great great grandfathers was actually murdered (speared) by Aboriginals on his farm as well, so mistreatment did go both ways, despite what those who paint the political picture want to tell us.

Changing the date or name isn't going g to alter history, it’s also not helpful to those born on that day especially the 1988 crew who all got special commemorative birth certificates lol

In one sentence you manage to claim that nothing is going to alter history, but that it might impact people born on that day or who received certificates... So does it change nothing or change something?

Australia Day is a celebration of what this country has become, and it’s achieved that through blood sweat and tears of many nationalities, and continues to do so today.

That doesn't change with a change of date...

Those complaining , I bet they don’t complain about the day off or the double time and a half they get paid to work it, unless of course your one who dies not work and lives off the benefits this country provides.

Not sure that's relevant?

Let's say the vast majority of voices on the "change" side are not actually indigenous. I don't get the angle of "bet they don't complain about the day off" to people arguing for an underrepresented minority, not themselves? I don't personally gain from a change of date but I don't lose out either. If the holiday moves, then the situation doesn't change in terms of employment or benefits, surely?

Makes sense to me reaching out to aggrieved people as there are a number of social advantages too from an inclusive community.

Nice dog whistle to finish off there.

Changing the date or name isn’t going g to alter history, it’s also not helpful to those born on that day especially the 1988 crew who all got special commemorative birth certificates lol

Perhaps the indigenous nation would like to find a day to celebrate when they first arrived on these shores as they too travelled here from other lands.

Australia Day is a celebration of what this country has become, and it’s achieved that through blood sweat and tears of many nationalities, and continues to do so today.

You cannot change history, you can only ensure it is not repeated.

Those complaining , I bet they don’t complain about the day off or the double time and a half they get paid to work it, unless of course your one who dies not work and lives off the benefits this country provides.

Change it to May 8, for Mate Day. Everyone is a mate no matter if your black, white, yellow, red, green, purple or orange.

Change the flag to a nice green, blue and yellow design we all can aspire to (not incorporating the aboriginal flag at all as that is just highlighting one group of people).

I think the Wildcats should change their name to the 26ers so that the original people of this country can hate them as much as white basketball fans do.

How far would you take this push?

Should the 36ers name be changed as its named after the year South Australia became a British province.

There are anons for and against. None appear to be trying to present themselves as separate individuals.

If you're surprised that people are for a change of date, why wouldn't you be surprised at support for not budging? For some significant period, there wasn't an Australia Day as we know it. I'd say that for most people, the association with Australia Day as they know it is a time of year and what they do with the day more than anything specific. Or a feel that moving is "losing" to others, or "letting them win".

I like May 8 (hadn't heard it before; it's quite funny) but think a rough mark of "Summer holidays are other, now get working" is handy. But not so much that I care a great deal about it. Making a change matters more to others and I'm happy to defer when it's a seriously emotive issue for them. I'm more surprised that it's an emotional issue for others.

I resist any "past is the past" argument because it's something I suspect can't be understood from a position of majority.

There have been some great comments for and against.

far from it.don't mind healthy debate

.why are you alarmed by the question?

wouldn't't be the first time on Hoops one person with an axe to grind/viewpoint has made multiple posts to hammer a point

I can't believe the amount of support for a date change on this thread..

it would be of interest to know how many 'individual' anon's have shown support

Because the existence of more than a couple of people with a different opinion to you is obviously such an absurd notion.

Just change it to march 8th.

For those clueless people on here listen to briggs song January 26th

I can't believe the amount of support for a date change on this thread..

it would be of interest to know how many 'individual' anon's have shown support

I'm fairly certain the vast majority are from one source making multiple anon posts

Isaac can confirm?

This conversation makes me love the people in it more than I thought possible.

Yes of course skull, we’re all equals ever since that day that white people decided that brown people were equal (despite 200 years of being treated like shit prior to us deciding they were equals). Why dont they just start to act equal???

I am so bored with this topic...with that I don't mean disrespect to any other humans,
(key word 'humans' black,white or yellow)ever since the beginning...all around the world....still, human Vs human.

Cut out your patch, break the cycle, invest in yourself...others will follow your lead...black, white or yellow...

Well, it sound like IF the date is to be changed, the best date would be May 8 (Mate Day) and if the date remains, then the focus needs to be adjusted to provide an opportunity to acknowledge, reconcile and move forward.

Some great input from a lot a posters (esp KET) and 666828, your viewpoint is valuable.

Personally, I think a National Day is a good thing and an opportunity to unify, more than divide. We all have two ears and one mouth, and that's probably the ratio in which they should work. I don't mind keeping the date as providing the focus is right.

#666828 continued

And to attempt to equate the displacement of indigenous peoples from their lands and continued systemic oppression to “invasion” of empires across Europe is ridiculous and shows you have never experienced what it is Indigenous people experience today.

As a first generation Australian and proudly Maori I’ve always had an affinity and sense of connection with Indigenous Australians. We share a history which was interrupted and eroded by colonists, an identity that is quickly dismissed by white people, and cultural interests which are largely ignored.

Whilst I wasn’t there, my parents, or even grandparents, the things that happened all those years ago have had intergenerational consequences still felt today, much like Indigenous Australians still suffer from today.

Just like I do not celebrate the Tiriti O Waitangi / Treaty of Waitangi, I also do not celebrate Australia Day for the reason that it fails to acknowledge the true and original Australians” and their tens of thousands of years of history, and is used by patriots as an excuse to tell non-white christians to “eff of we’re full”.

Move the date. Redefine the reason for event. Celebrate Indigenous Australians and be remind yourself of whose land you are really on.

KET - I think you are forgetting your history;

Ottoman Empire - as late as 16-17-18 century
China - Well not sure when there stopped

As well as a number of smaller invasions by the Swiss, Polish and the good old Pope all between 16th and 17th century

Plus my fav - Siam

#666813

We're talking 1788 not 788AD

Having studied both English and European history I always find it interesting how in Australia settlement is treated as a high crime and how so much negative stigma attached.
The story of settlement in Australia is no different to the English story (Celts, Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Norman’s and French plus world wars). In addition Europe as a whole is really a store of “invasion” (if you want an invasion day). Europe has been invaded and re-invaded again and again with most of Europe now being a mix of people. From the Gauls (Germany), Xia/Shang/Qin/Han’s Dynasty’s (China), Persia, Aksum, Macedonia, Mongola. I have left out the Egypy, Romains, Russian’s, Arabs (7th Century), Israelites.
I am not saying that what has happened is OK however what I am saying is that what has happened is history and must be view through the eyes of history and seen that way.

Is this the ABC's forum now?
Take your politics elsewhere!

“For instance, many people look at various statistics showing aboriginal disadvantage and jump straight to the conclusion that they are being wronged in 2017”

Well considering they’ve never been righted, what would you call it? Just because we stopped treating them poorly*, it doesnt mean we did enough to bring them up to a level playing field, or that people’s attitudes towards them has improved.

Its like owning an animal for ten years and start beating it every day of its life, until one day it attacks your neighbor and you say its not your fault because you haven’t beaten it for a week.

*compared to some atrocities of the past

A minute's silence- another suggestion.

"A mature nation ought to be able to mourn and rejoice on the same day, recognising with shame what European presence did to the Indigenous peoples of this land and acknowledging with pride that we have also received and achieved great things in this land".

Well said John.

Both sides of the national conversation- Di Natale on one side and Abbott, Turnbull and Joyce, Latham on the other- are making an unjustified assumption- that if we have a public holiday on Australia Day, it must be a day of celebration. But why? What's the reasoning behind this assumption? Why can't we have a morning of mourning then an afternoon of celebration? So I don't really want to "keep the date as is" I want to keep the date but change how it's done. Important difference.

John Dickson made a good point too- changing the date means that Indigenous Australians are not structurally included in the new date- it will simply become a celebration of what's great about modern day Australia. "The beauty of sticking with 26 Jan (but incorporating lament in the beginning of the day) is that it will embed in our national day an annual acknowledgement of Indigenous people and the harm Europeans caused, and so it will remind/ educate generations of Australians each year to temper our celebrations with remembrance and sorrow".

He also suggested someone could be commissioned to write a poem in the spirit of Anzac Day's Ode of Remembrance ("they will not grow old..."). Like Les Murray.

Having the date on January 26 is insensitive and excludes an important part of the population.

KET,

thank you.