Hoops

NBL refs punishment

Is Joyce coaching again? ;)

Perhaps so 83 - he seems to do it for all of them, where Joey seems to get them fired up as a team.
I'd never want my kids sitting behind the bench - probably an adult area only, which is a pity

That's a good point Rooster.

One of the things that's intrigued me about the Wildcats is that they seem very well disciplined on court with regard to the refs (with the exception of Walker a few times this year). I cant remember a Wildcat carrying on like Sobey did for quite some time. Makes me wonder whether it is a very considered strategy by Gleeson telling the players to leave the refs alone because he will ride them enough for the whole team.

Perhaps we have the best refs, but need to do lots of work on coach behaviour.
It is the pinnacle level of the sport, but there are some real flogs in charge of teams, and that filters down.
Do I want my 10 years old's coach acting like Gleeson or Wright? It filters through the team.

Very average. Are you serious about your "parody"? Do another one but make it funny.

There are always players that get on peoples nerves. He was frustrated though. Like all the other players and coaches and TV presenters and fans.

Parody of the incident

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfHbTWcjawj/?taken-by=swizzedits

“Sobey thinks he’s bigger than the game” really? You idiot.

The commication issue stsrted years ago. How many time do coaches say there's no point bringing up issues? They know they'll get nothing but arrogance or just get ignored.

Maybe that's the problem. Communicating with players and coaches on the wrong level? Leading to frustration?

I've always said that it's not fair on refs for them to be trying to judge flops. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes it isn't, and sometimes it can look like an obvious flop from one angle when a replay with show that it actually isn't one.
The same can be said of a lot of types of foul calls, but the flop has the additional factor of trying to guess the intention of the player and not just his actions.
It's too much. A player being on the ground is enough of a disadvantage most of the time anyway.

Related to that, one of the best thing the refs could do IMO is get better at the art of the no-call.

...very badly

Flop calls and excessive unsportsmanlike fouls are now a blight on the game but lets blame the fans for not enjoying them.

"They are reffing badly because there are no consequences. That balding older ref who is terrible refs every week with no threat of being dropped and that ref whose overweight looks a bit like a pig refs more than one game each week and he can hardly get up and down the court aylen"

NBL should use this in the refs' education sessions. You know, as a case study of how some fans approach informed, objective decision making.

Yeah I guess many Olympics and his 600th game on Friday makes him a dud.

They are reffing badly because there are no consequences. That balding older ref who is terrible refs every week with no threat of being dropped and that ref whose overweight looks a bit like a pig refs more than one game each week and he can hardly get up and down the court aylen

"But the rule that two Ts is an automatic ejection is ridiculous. IIRC, refs used to have the discretion to eject a player on a 2nd T. That was usually exercised if the player acted like a pork chop and got T'd then either continued or repeated the behaviour. Not for innocuous things like delay of game or flopping."

100% agree with this. Absolutely ridiculous to eject a player when it's more than likely that the ref has been overzealous in applying the flopping rule. The player is penalised in one of the harshest ways possible (ejection) due to the refs making a very highly subjective and often incorrect call. As I said in a previous post, the punishment just doesn't fit the "crime".

If a player is going to get thrown out of a game it needs to be for something that warrants ejection, not because they've lost their balance or stepped on someone's shoe (like Damian Martin did when he got called for ridiculous flop) which has caused them to fall to the floor.

Which brings me to the flop rule. The NBL brought this in

I was at the game and am a Hawks fan and even I think Sobey's ejection was ridiculous. Correct under the rules, as they are, but ridiculous. He did remonstrate about something (after ADL just had a call go their way?!) and he may have crossed the line in his language and that was his 2nd T, after the flop call earlier. So, under the rules, the ejection is correct.

But the rule that two Ts is an automatic ejection is ridiculous. IIRC, refs used to have the discretion to eject a player on a 2nd T. That was usually exercised if the player acted like a pork chop and got T'd then either continued or repeated the behaviour. Not for innocuous things like delay of game or flopping.

Which brings me to the flop rule. The NBL brought this in simply because refs cocked up and kept rewarding flops with charge calls. So, they rewarded players in flopping. I'm sure that there's many people here who could name noted floppers. And we wondered why players flopped?

So, the NBL decided to get tough. But the refs continue to cock up by by being so eager to call flops even when a player has taken a decent hit or whose momentum might have caused the loss of balance.

Then, there's the other "issue" for the NBL: USFs, which featured in last night's game. Mitch Norton was called for one for pushing Drmic off him. After it seemed like Drmic had crashed over the top of Norton and landed on him. I couldn't see what Norton did but I saw on a video clip on my phone this morning showing him pushing Drmic off him.

However, a trusted source, who was closer to the incident than I was, told me that there were accusations that Norton kicked Drmic. (I didn't see this but will stand corrected if the video shows it).

On the assumption that there was NO kick, if Beker made the USF call on the grounds of a kick and he didn't and couldn't have seen, then Beker should be stood down immediately and sent away for re-education.

At the end of the game, I saw Nico (one of the ref supervisors) heading toward the ref room and either he had his "game face" on or he had the look of someone who wasn't happy at what he had seen.

Agghhhhhj.......refs. The short spurts of power in their life. So good.

Wonder if refs could be objective rather than subjective..

( they dont like majok deng all that much)

There was nothing Sobey did that deserved a technical foul. He wasn't overly demonstrative. Refs have to harden up a bit. In days gone by the ref would have communicated with him first, not blown the whistle as a matter of course.

If he was in the ref's face yelling and screaming, sure, blow the whistle.

If you actually believe that was good for the league, than each week, people will be pissed with dumb ass decisions. People’s personal feelings about Sobey are clouding their judgement about the rubbish way a star was thrown from a game. It’s trash to watch the refs have such a large impact.

It's not just fans claiming it's sub standard. This year more than any other players and coaches as well as ex-players have been vocal about officiating.

There's clearly a problem, so "accept the whistle and move on" isn't acceptable.

One simple solution would be for the referees of today to perhaps look at how the game was whistled in years gone by, especially with regards to tech fouls. The refs this year seem to blow techs as a matter of course, rather than a last resort. Try actually communicating with the players instead of having a "holier than thou" attitude.

Why should it be up to fans to provide a "viable solution"?

It's a professional league with sub standard officiating. It's up to the league to work out the solutions.

Players, coaches and fans shouldn't have to "accept the calls" - it's up to the league, the refs and refs coaches etc to sort it out and provide high quality officiating to complement the standard of the games.

Thunder Jam, you’re obviously in another world. Sobey is one of the Aussie stars in the league. He wears the Green and Gold and last offseason played NBA summer League (although he got injured). He also played in Greece.
If he’s not an Aussie NBL star, than who is?

Childress reached in flat footed and out of position and got ball and body. Hard, clumsy foul got what it deserved. Would be ridiculous to eject a player for that one.

Settle petal!
Sobey a "star player " thanks for that chuckle
If ref's see a tech than call it. You think they have remembered everyone's foul count & in a split second go , I can't call a second tech,because Anon's want to see him play more?

Glen

If refs “make some courageous calls” they will influence games even more. A courageous, or brave decision is one you make when you know it will be unpopular or controversial. Like the following from Yes, Minister:

“Thats’s very brave of you, Sir...A very courageous decision, Minister.” An ongoing joke in the series. At which point Minister Hacker always thought about the demise of his political career.

Refs: disgraceful today. They should have really little impact on the run of the game. Consistently bad or absent calls make the game all about them, not what the punters pay to see. The Childress foul on Conger was ugly and dangerous, potentially worthy of ejection (haven't watched replay). The refs need to be less wizard of Oz lion and make some courageous calls. Two Adelaide players foul a driving player after the whistle for the initial foul, the refs swallowing their pea sends the wrong message. Yet when a badly fouled Norton (called) pushes a leg away while on the floor, this is worthy of an unsportsmanlike? Consistency should be the aim of the referee brigade in all games and while they achieve this, it should be better than consistently atrocious.
The standard of play was too high today for this classless referee display!

I think he's basically saying the ref was really crap and needs looking at.

If I recall Joey called BS during the post game in relation to Goulding. However Bubbles flops, we all know that. Sobey was drilled today, unfortunately you can’t see the contact or if he fell before the contact from the trail position. Whoops Becker was in the trail.

Carey hasn't been there for years most sensible people know that. I wouldn't even give them that knowledge. oh BTW you should have said another NBL bad decision. But what would I know.

didn't log in Kobe? How many other aliases do you have?

Kobe thiks he knows all . Argue. Not with the Kobe.

And there is a very good reason for that kobe

Depends on who they actually appoint anon #332. There are definitely 2 schools of officials. The in-house and the dog-house.

There was enough contact to deem that that wasn’t a flop.

Peter Carey hasn't had anything to do with the NBL in years.

'responsibilities'

https://www.refereebasketball.net.au/national-referees.html

who's who

https://www.refereebasketball.net.au/national-referee-panel.html

Note WNBL Ref Coach from this thread https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/42687-dandenong-basketball-in-the-law-courts/


The Boss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Carey_(umpire)

In person
https://www.facebook.com/BasketballAustralia/videos/1177416958954009/


It appears that one "new" main theme is to position yourself and stand perfectly still, waiting for the play to "come to you" , so that your eyes are perfectly stationary and your vision is not having to work so hard to use the brain's processing power to run the vision interpretation - all sound neurology - sort of ;)

very much AFL I think, particularly as it's a physical impossibility for any AFL refs to maintain a constant 5-7 m distance from the football......

Of course this is far superior to the previous basketball ( thank you Sid taylor et al) theme of moving to anticipate the play and to continually position yourself so that you have a view of the "gap" between players and can identify who ( and IF) initiates contact, and IF that contact is 1) illegal and 2) effects an advantage/disadvantage.

IMHO as contact is not only legal in AFL , but is in fact the aim of the game, you never have to consider anything about contact other than ( now) is it from the rear, or head high.

In basketball . of course, the question of IF there is contact is of critical importance, and the aim of the defense is to place maximum intimidation on the opposition while maintaining a legal "gap" , and to force ( if possible) the offense to close that gap and initiate contact.

The number of times in the last 2 weeks , where the based line camera has shown Zero contact by the NBL defender,or the shooter moving into the defender, when the totally hopeless defensive foul call is made by the ref furthest away and NOT in line with the Gap is really really high.

So sad.

The suggestion is that the senior FIBA badged refs are concerned that they will not get finals games in world champs or Olympics ( as we did in the GOLD Game in 2012 etc) , if they accidentally take these 'new improved" habits OS with themselves and are not able to drop those habits in the OS tournaments.

The number and position ( Finals) of the games awarded to Oz refs in the next lot of OS campaigns will probably tell a sad tale.

Frustration when the same contact gets 2 different decisions.

I'd be pissed as well.

If in doubt & little contact - NO CALL!!!!

How hard can it be?

Sobey gobs off and does it again. Where is the problem?

After the Boomers defeated Croatia, Brett Brown said that "We’re never going to be a high-powered offensive team. We’ve hung our hat on being able to guard teams. You know, we're getting up and down and trying to get the ball to the right people, we’re doing all of that, but we’ve really placed a lot of emphasis on defending" So what he means is even with improved player development, increased participation &
strength and conditioning, the Boomers could never have the talent of the Opals.Since he bacame coach, the Boomers are down in points, assists and turn the ball over too many times.He also chooses the wrong players for games and stubbornly uses bad rotations.I say sack Brown and hire Andrew Gaze as head coach.