Hoops

Grand Final Game 2 foul count disparity

Love how the thread title has been changed to appear more mature. But each reply has the ‘HAHAHAHA’ crap still...

Dead issue one team went hard and attacked, one team didn’t show up.

You need to slow the Sixers down for two reasons. 1. They are scoring at this speed and are attacking increasing the risk of fouls. 2. If you foul, it gives your team a little spell to get their breath back.

Sixers are keen to go flat out for the 40 minutes. Most of their opposition struggle with this, fouling keeps them physically in the game. Fouling too much gives them extended rest however increases the workload on the best 7.

I guess a few NBL teams need to get fitter and faster over the season break.

Foxtel don't even contribute to the TV rights so why would they pay for refs. #freeloaders

Maybe the NBL can organise an overseas referee exchange programme during the season and come finals use external independent referees for the finals series.

I would have loved to have the Asian referees we saw over here for the world cup doing this finals series.

The current squad of referees desperately need retraining, upgrading or something. The standard and consistency has declined to an almost all time low.

The current frustration level of all teams and spectators is immense, regardless of win or lose.

An in season exchange programme might be a great help to improve their abilities and qualification ratings internationally and I'm sure our refs wouldn't object. There might be unseen benefits through such an alliance as well.

Maybe Foxtel could contribute to the cost!

Wesley attempting a single leg takedown... but Sobey is the Cobra Kai alumni?

Any word on Childress?

If anything the refs have put away the flop call, and are calling anything where a players is attempting a shot or layup and there is contact. Not really a bad thing as players need to adapt. If Melb continue to shoot so heavily from deep then the foul count will continue to be different. The fouls for Adelaide have been the same all season sp the finals are not being called all that differently. They play fast tempo and attack the rim and the defenders are slow and have crap footwork.

Like others have said even if you take into account some flops and bad calls, there's always going to be a difference in the number of fouls when you have 2 teams with very different styles of play.

As much as I hate NBL refs, they were largely responsible for stamping out Sobey's trying to draw a foul antics with their insta-calls on flops early on.

Anon - I feel like Sobey has cut down on the throw your head back crap to some extent. Drmic still has a bit of that in him though.

I noticed Adnam now does it quite a bit. Don't remember him over acting that much when he was here. But then, he barely played here.

So 47 to 13 in 2014 is the record? That just for 40 minute games?

Easy equations

Lots of 3's = less fouls as defender hangs back and only has to jump straight up.

Lots of attacking, fast, penetration = more fouls because defenders have to play close and move fast.

Melbourne looked really slow yesterday and only tbe 3's have kept them in both the first 2 games.

Another interesting one:

The @MelbUnitedHQ have taken 64 three-point shots in the first 2 games of this @NBL Grand Final series. (36ers have taken 64 free-throw's in first 2 games)

That is the most 3-PTA's by any team since the Sydney Kings took 80 in first two games of 2006 Grand Final.

@NBLfacts:

*Most FT attempts in a Grand Final game since Perth took 47 (to Adelaide's 13) in game one of 2014 GF series.

NBL referees are nothing more than home town cheer leaders.

Agree the reffing was crap but Melbourne defence was woeful, Melbourne should’ve adjusted and didn’t. Prather great player that he is got 20 but think he stagnates the offence. Melbourne will have to toughen up and go back to what got them there in the first place.

Anderson is getting old so his speed isn't whatit used to be. Probably why he's grabbing. Can't keep up.

NBL referees are nothing more than home town cheer leaders.

If all the fouls were being called the same then Andersen would have fouled out in his first 60 seconds. I have a huge amount of respect for what he's achieved in his career and he's virtually unstoppable around the basket, so I don't know why he's resorting to grabbing, holding, pushing, illegal screens. He got away with so much yesterday, I was actually quite surprised with his tactics given his talent and game-smarts.

United tried to use the dirty Perth model to slow the running game down. This is the end result, thankfully.

As others said, Melb jack threes constantly where Adelaide drive hard.

That said, there were RIDICULOUS calls in both directions. Hardly any consistency and at points, endangered players.


In any case, I'm surprised Goulding's neck is still able to function. Any time a human passes within 3 feet of him, he performs a spot on re-enactment of JFK's execution.

It's the game style and Melbourne were terrible yesterday but people always want to have an excuse. Thosr stats were always going to cause lots of bleating.

The two games have been called differently, as many have commented. A lot more was let go in Game 1. Calling it tighter in the second looked to advantage the penetrating team. The refs usually indicate to captains/coaches/players before the game what they will be focusing on. Wouldn't surprise me if they'd adjusted to call it tighter.

The idea that players and coaches reference the refs is nothing outlandish - they do it every game. Everyone feels like they're the ones getting screwed. Every coach in a series makes comments trying to influence the calling style in the subsequent game.

In both games there were dud calls, as in all games. One of the worst was in G1 where the ball went out off Barlow, after he juggled the ball, and United kept possession. There was at least one equivalent in G2 that favoured Adelaide.

Ware's fifth foul didn't look to be much to me and I would've let them play on (looked tame and DJ retained the ball) in the interest of playing basketball and keeping the best players in the game. I commented as such on Twitter and had responses both way - 'Another example of United getting screwed' vs 'Ware was at fault, should've known better.' (I'm an Adelaide fan but had money on Melbourne, and occasionally pretend not to be too biased.)

Anyway, during the season, Melbourne were the second highest fouling team. Despite their pace, and easily the highest scoring game, Adelaide were the second lowest. Melbourne second in 3PA, Adelaide clear last.

In the regular season, Adelaide's opponents averaged almost 4 FPG more than any other team. Assuming you get HCA-type bias around the league (Perth, NZ, etc), I imagine you can put this down to the style of game they play.

IMHO Its a bit late for these children to still be up on a school night,

When was last time Goulding attacked rim like Sobey, when did Barlow attack it like Creek, Ware has little tear drops opposed to sixers pgs. Sooky lala!!!!!

Melbourne lost because they are soft. By the end of the 3rd quarter the rebound count was 40-19. Ended up being 53-36

No team will win a grand final game -20 in rebounding.

Can’t wait for Friday

“Perth invented the flop.”

Short memory. Goorjian’s Kings team were notorious for flopping. Bruton, Hinder, Smith and Wortho on the same team...that’s HoF level flopping right there.

The same psychological factors that influence the refs also influence the players.

Why does the home team win the majority of the time, across virtually all sports and all leagues?

Crowd has to be a huge part of it.

The way United played, they will need more than home court champ.

All sports are like this to a degree. Debates over refereeing styles are eternal.

My take is that human psychology plays a big part in it.

You have two very, very good teams who have barely lost any games in the past couple of months. Coming into the series, most astute basketball fans thought this would be a very tight series, and the majority of people tipped it would go to 5 games. Reason being- again, simple. Two very good teams.

Now, in basketball you have 5 fouls and you're out. Once you get two early fouls, or 3 before half time, you automatically start modifying the way you play defense. Once the game has been going for 3 or 4 minutes teams start adjusting their play to the way the refs are calling it.

There are many 50-50 calls in basketball. Or grey areas. Calls where you watch the replay and two fans can amicably disagree about the call. Calls that in real time, could "go either way".

When you have thousands of people screaming at you, you're more likely to favour the home team. It's biological, and it's subconscious. There are psychological and maybe even evolutionary reasons why this is the case.

When you have two teams who are very, very good, and 5% of the calls change direction and go the other way, it makes a huge difference to momentum, confidence, the way the players feel they are allowed to play, etc.

This is an intractable problem, but fairly simply when you break it down like this.

It's why I'm thankful that United has home court advantage in this series.

Perth invented the flop. You should have kept the copyright.

Flop no flop you can't possibly defend a team when the whistle blows like it is a automatically a foul. It's happend all season.

I'm bored seeing that banner go down every year!

Agreed udog, United looked incredibly slow and the moment there was some scoreboard pressure they folded. I genuinely think of Childress is fit, this series is now in Adelaide’s favour. A massive response. If they get a 6point lead in the 3rd again in Melbourne it’ll be a different story.

It's a good thing Melbourne can hit 3's because the only other thing they managed to do today was hit Adelaide players as they were blowing by them. They looked like they were playing in the masters games.

Well the morons have arrived on this thread. Isaac don’t waste your breathe the tin foil hat brigade are here. Makes the win even sweeter.

Good luck to you, why people have to point out something just to make them feel better?

What's the lol for? You perfect?

Sorry I can't spell

Nonsense. Wesley had a number of nice blocks in the first half on Chill that could easily have been blown as fouls, yet weren't. Adelaide's style of play puts them at the line, it's as simple as that.

Said numerous times, you can't defend other than a foul or a free drive. What's the difference in inishiating a foul or a flop?

Isaac

United attempted 34 3s on Friday night compared to Adelaide's 9 yet United attempted more FTs than the 36ers.

You can see what is going on.

Referees ORDERED to take this to 5.

This league is a farce

Anon, if you’re so confident that games are engineered for home teams to win, go bet your house on it. Or think about both semi series only going to two games...

It's an indictment really on basketball fans in this country that some people can't work out one team attacks the hoop at 90 k's an hour all game every game and the other team likes jacking up 3's all game.

Who would've thought there would be a discrepancy in foul shots?

United attempted 16 more threes than the 36ers. I don’t recall them drawing fouls on any of their 40 3PA.

LK has to MAXIMISE his profits.

This series is going to 5 with EVERY home team winning

LK is a business man FIRST

Yep I think it is a poor choice to have the same refs 2 games in a row.

New refs can go in impartial and not to affected by comments (by the losing coach) or any talking between players.

It would have been good to see the game officiated a bit tougher.

It got to the point where the United players had to let them go right by them so not get called for a foul.

The crowd and players were amped up at the start but the refs took the sting out of the game.

There were so many fouls called esp on Barlow and Goulding - standing there under the ring hands straight up - FOUL???? Ridiculous - obviously been told to take the game to 4 or 5 games.

The 36ers averaged 1 FT per minute the WHOLE GAME?

LOLOLOLOLOL

"herd"

Juniors , seniors, high level, low level, it makes no difference, you can teach players how to defend without fouling, and you can also teach them how to play in a way that means they can't be stopped without fouling by the defense. So many without this experience in the sport just don't get it, and just follow the heard in respect of assuming some balance in the foul count is some sort of indication of good officiating.

Most fouls occur when the offense is challenging the defense with either pace, positioning , or both.

But it appears no coach has ever taught Goulding not to slap down from shoulder level, from behind the player , onto a ball held securely in both hands, in full view of a referee who has been standing there for at least 10-15 seconds.

thats not "home cooking" or unbalanced officiating, thats just a stupid player.