Hoops

Game 5 at Hisense on Saturday nearly sold out !

PS: Casper does have impeccable defense!

I believe I said impeccable fundamentals.

At 5 foot 10, he does a pretty good job at that end of the court I reckon.

Life is complex, not simple.

I think there should be *some* restrictions imposed on gambling advertising, and I'd like to see the AFL take *some* steps to reduce reliability on pokies.

Exactly what those steps are and exactly where the balance is, I don't know.

Would I still support this if I became convinced that it meant St Kilda was likely to go broke in the long term?

That's a genuine moral dilemma. I honestly don't know what my answer is.

It's not "mental gymnastics" unless you're a simpleton who sees everything in black and white. It's called thoughtfully considering a difficult moral question.

At least they're remotely interesting gymnastics!

L 'Casper "Impeccable Defence" Ware' V.

I mean, Cram, I am a little conflicted as a Saints fan. I feel some cognitive dissonance...

Two inconvenient truths

1. St Kilda receives massive handouts from the AFL each year. It's a socialist system.

2. That entire system thrives off the backs of broken families, with AFL clubs taking a combined, whopping $94 million from pokies per year. Hawthorn alone takes $20 million.

So to me,

1. The AFL has no business moralising on anything, when their whole business is built on something that is morally questionable.

2. St Kilda benefits from all of this.

So I feel a bit...uncomfortable.

But I also think footy is a great thing for the community as a whole.

It's a tough one.

Anyway, this got way off topic. Sorry all!

Spot on- I hope the new 2019/20 franchise plays at MCA. Great little stadium to watch bball in.

Cram, it does frustrate me that the club gets involved in politics but there are two complicating factors:

1. It isn't just St Kilda- it's the entire AFL who is increasingly getting involved in all kinds of political issues. Typically gross hypocrisy emerges. As just one example, consider Eddie McGuire's gaff on Queens Birthday 2016 and Gil McLachlan's response. Consider the absolute epic level of hypocrisy involved by the footy public, crucifying Eddie then tuning into Wayne Carey every weekend. Consider the epic hypocrisy of both the AFL and Collingwood- who think nothing of taking millions of dollars of dirty money from The United Arab Emirates but want to drag Eddie over the coals for a joke.

Mind boggling. But it's only one example where the AFL got involved in politics.

2. I understand why St Kilda does it. It's a strategy to diversify and build their brand. It's a competitive environment. It's a strategy that has potentially more reward than risk so, personal misgivings aside, to the extent that it helps the club I can understand and support it (or at least not openly criticise too much).

MCA might be a good option once Melb has multiple teams and the fanbase gets spread a bit thinner

Agreed that Hisense isn't a great bball viewing venue. It's a velodrome.

MCA and RLA are better.

Given crowds averaged 7,400 last year and 8,200 this season, I wonder if another increase might see games eventually held at RLA?

Cram- So salty. I feel sorry for you. Genuinely.

You are still a part of the same supporter group as me though- Saints. And if anything happened to them, I'd be distraught. So I do empathise- even though I don't feel same re: Tigers/United.

Yes it's a shame Cram re: Tigers fans. For you, not me.

Would be but so far they can't even sellout Hisense so what's the point.

Strange that none of these games were scheduled for RLA. Wasn't there talk a couple of years ago about grand final games potentially being there if Melbourne made it?

I agree that Hisense is not great for bball viewing. Would Rod Laver be better? It holds nearly 15k

Hisense is not a great basketball viewing venue. Perth, the Gong, the arena are better places to watch the game from Gold or better seating. Silver and bronze are better than Hisense as well.

Going forward, Melbourne you need a basketball stadium that holds >10k. Not a multipurpose venue that is predominantly a cycling track / tennis court.

Was hoping for more than a vague answer.

Cram what happened to all the Tigers supporters over the years? From Rod Laver to the Cage type crowds.

I don't dispute the growth in interest in Melbourne, less tribal and more ........united (sorry) but, I suspect the ticket sales for Game 5 have also been influenced by a greater push in demand west of Nhill (less time constraints travel wise over Easter and this being the absolute end of the line for what has been a great series).

I was at Game 3 so I will be noting with interest whether Sixer fans are more apparent in numbers this week.

Also all ten record attendances featured the Tigers, seven of those vs. Magic, one vs. Giants. Really should've kept Magic in the league, even owned by NBL just to preserve it.

The top ten NBL crowds at Rod Laver Arena comprise of 8 Melbourne derbies. Funnily enough the top four attendances are regular season derbies then followed by playoff derbies. The only exceptions a regular season game vs Kings and a playoff vs Wildcats. Melbourne loves Melbourne.

Good stats paul. It goes to show Melbourne is only into itself - Melbourne. NBL should have done everything possible to retain three teams in Melbourne, once Giants and Magic went by the wayside the NBL deteriorated.

It's almost like it's easier to sell out Hisense than it is to sell out Rod Laver, even if you just label them both "Melbourne Park" to try and smudge that over.

Credit to Adelaide who filled the Arena and sold out limited to just over 8K with a 3rd of the population of Melbourne. And yes they did have opposing events to go up against but the fan base is strong and really care about the team as opposition teams can vouch for when they play there. Its loud

Also just shows that the NBL isnt the basketcase that it once was (under BA)

United haven't been handing out freebies for the past 2 seasons... Maybe the occasional to a group or something but nothing like It used to be.

Anyways, the whole free tickets thing was really overblown, any new business hands out free samples, and it's clearly paid off

How?

The 36ers give out freebies too - I got comp tickets for sunday’s Game.

You all fail to mention LK giving away a lot of freebies. Dragons and the old Tigers didn't do this.

Also just shows that the NBL isnt the basketcase that it once was (under BA) and has come a long way since LK pumped HIS money into the league to not only save it from extinction, but have it nearly thriving again (i say nearly because it still has a long way to go yet in my opinion)

Well said LV. Basketball in Melbourne has come a long long way since 2009.

Its now at the point where if United get "only" 8700 or whatever game 1 was then thats viewed as a bit disappointing. In 2009 that would have been incredible.

Correction- Dragons were probably more like 3,800 or something. (I'm just doing rough maths in my head going off this wiki page):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_NBL_season

So if we say 3,800 and Tigers 2,700 to non-derby games, that's 6,500 people on average. And some might've been doubling up.

Consider that United were getting 6,500 people to their WEEKNIGHT home games this season.

In 2009 they couldn't even get that to a weeknight grand final game between the two Melbourne teams.

Dragons were averaging about 4,000 people to their non-derby Hisense home games, after 3 years of Cowan pumping money into it. And the Tigers were averaging around 2,700 ish to their home games at The Cage. The Tigers only cracked the 3,000 mark twice in the entire season if you ignore derbies. Their home semi final vs NZ had 2,998 and even Game 2 of the grand final couldn't sell out the Cage with 3,096 turning up.

Ever since LK took over in 2012 it's been all one direction- UP. It will remain an open question whether the trend could've continued if the Tigers had stayed- since they did get some 7,000+ crowds at Hisense in their last season. But regardless of the answer to that open question for which we'll never have an answer, I think we can all agree- anyone who's being objective- that moving to United has generally been a success and that the NBL is heading in a good direction. It's more stable and more supported than it has been in a long time.

Since I was a basketball person before I was a Tigers person, I can honestly say that is more important to me than whether the Tigers are still here.

And more important to me than whether United wins the title.

Don't get me wrong though, I'll still be barracking hard on Saturday :-)

FWIW, in 2009 when South Dragons met Melbourne Tigers in the grand final, the crowds for Hisense games were

Game 1- 4,211
Game 3- 8,201
Game 5-8,922

Game 1 was on a Wednesday.

That year, the Dragons two semi final home crowds were 3,613 and 3,007.

The two regular season derbies drew 9,308 and 8,093.

This year Melbourne United averaged 8,200. This Saturday will be a sellout with the CHEAPEST ADULT TICKETS BEING $61.

Repeat that. A sellout with the CHEAPEST ADULT TICKETS being $61.

So you can hate Kestlemen all you like (Hi Cram) but you have to be impressed with the numbers that are coming through the doors.

I don't have the same passion for United as I did for the Tigers. I'd like to see them win for Melbourne, but I'm not riding it. So part of me resents LK. But if you're a basketball person first and foremost- as I am- you have to thank him for what he's poured into the sport. It's getting results.

The game is at 6pm... You can watch all of united and then see last 3 quaters of AFL or whatever

So? Melbourne population is 3.5million. When Grand Finals are on you get a lot of bandwagoners anyway not the diehards... except in Melbourne from the looks of things.

That isn’t pathetic. That’s pretty normal.

"It's looking like a sellout."

About time.

Games 1 & 3 weren't sellouts - only 8,699 and 9,362 out of 10,500. Pathetic!

United first row seats are $600, so yeah cheap as!

$175 is cheap, having said that $175 buys you a Cairns import for a season though.

Sidelines were 99% sold out by 445pm today, 45 mins after they went on sale. Only single seats were available.

It's looking like a sellout.

Bronze tickets are $61 for an adult.

This series deserved a 5th. Glad we got there.

That Sixers fan whose kid Creek crashed into said his seat was $175. Is it just me or is that cheap?

got 3 tickets in pretty decent spot! Let's make as much noise even though we might be spread out 36ers fans!!

Managed to get the last group of 3 seats available.
First time I tried, they said no seats available (in a group). Tried again 5 mins later and they offered me 3 together. Went through the whole map and mine were the only multiple seats in the whole arena left.

I know of quite a lot of comps handed out for yesterday’s game and it wasn’t sold out - still single seats available in good spots.

Got my tickets very keen to invade enemy territory and make sure that title is Adelaide’s.