Hoops

Tai Wesley signs with NZ Breakers

What season was this in? So at Bankstown Bruins in he played as an import I assume?

"They played in the 1980's and were still able to travel under their US passport in the last two years."

Who? and was dual citizenship a no no back then?

Great history lessons, thanks.

"What I'm not sure about is whether there used to be a further requirement to have been a citizen for 3 years before you could play as a local. I believe that used to be a requirement under FIBA rules for representation in national teams "

As I remember, the NBL rule to play as an Australian in the NBL ( at that time) , was that you had to be eligible to represent Australia under Fiba rules.

The NBL owners essentially colluded under an informal agreement to never support any club/player who ( as a naturalised Australian citizen) tried to challenge that rule in an australian court, either as a restraint of trade , or as a discrimination against an Australian citizen.

I cannot remember if the rule was changed because legal action had been taken, or because a legal determination had been made, or if the owners NBL board simply say the writing on the wall, or if the fiba rule had changed.
In anycase it was seen as a rule against a chequebook championship bid by the wealthier owners.

There was all sorts of rorts, a least one naturalised American played as an Australian in the NBL, while still retaining their American citizenship - through getting dual citizenship. Thius is not hearsay, They played in the 1980's and were still able to travel under their US passport in the last two years.

Cheers

Since Wesley left the Breakers he has still played NZNBL every offseason. 1st season I think he was with Henare/Flavell & the Southland Sharks the first season and then the last couple with Braswell & the Saints.
I'm not sure if that will help him naturalize as a Kiwi being that he didn't move to Australia full time.

"Fisher debuted in the NBL in 1987 and was naturalised in 1996.

Grace debuted 1990, naturalised 1996.

Crawford debuted 1982, naturalised 1990."

and there you have it.

"The rub for 36ers fans is of course that Kelvin Henderson wasn't allowed to play for the 36ers by the NBL despite being an Australian citizen."

Why?

Proud - the citizenship laws were changed 5 years ago, to make it possible to fast track citizenship for elite athletes. The change was made to allow Fahwad Ahmed to represent Australia in cricket, in time for an upcoming Ashes series at the time.

I don't know if this fast track process has been used for anyone else (e.g., Lisch) nor whether it's part of Wesley's process.

As posted above, NBL imports have always had to naturalise in order to be able to play as a local. What I'm not sure about is whether there used to be a further requirement to have been a citizen for 3 years before you could play as a local. I believe that used to be a requirement under FIBA rules for representation in national teams (but it isn't today)/. I don't know if the NBL used that requirement as well. Anyone else know?

Here's the requirement for naturalisation:
"People who became permanent residents from 1 July 2007 must have been lawfully resident in Australia for four years before applying for naturalization. The "lawfully resident" test could be satisfied by a student visa or tourist visa or 457 visa, but the applicant must:

- have been in Australia for 12 months as a permanent resident,
- have had absences from Australia of no more than twelve months (total) in the previous four years, including no more than three months (total) in the 12 months before applying,
- have not been unlawfully in Australia at any time in the four years preceding application,
- understand the responsibilities and privileges of Australian citizenship (except for applicants aged 60 or over),
- be able to speak and understand basic English (except for applicants aged 60 or over),
- understand the nature of the application, and intend to reside in Australia or to maintain a close and continuing association with Australia."

My layman's reading of those requirements suggest spending some time training and playing in NZ may not prevent Wesley from becoming an Australian citizen. Anyone know otherwise?

I stand corrected then Dome Rat but why was it that say Perth Wildcats had naturalized Fisher, Grace and Crawford.

Fisher and Crawford played for Giants and Supercats before becoming Wildcats which may make you think they were here for a short time before becoming locals when in fact they weren't. Although good question maybe it's longer/more red tape now.

I stand corrected then Dome Rat but why was it that say Perth Wildcats had naturalized Fisher, Grace and Crawford. I thought they needed to be here 3-4 seasons to be eligible for citizenship. Has there been a change in our laws that has changed that but I'm surprised we aren't hearing any "Rotnei/Prather/Childress have been here 3 seasons can they become naturalized soon" type conversation that you'd hear back in the 90s with imports like Rucker, Copeland, D-Mac, Rose etc

I liked when an import played what was it 3 or 4 seasons in the NBL all of a sudden they were a local back in the 90s... if that were true now then Wesley has been here long enough to be a local and Rotnei and Prather are on the verge of becoming locals too aren't they ?

Isn't this the rule that allowed Geelong Supercats to have a starting 5 full of imports?

Correct. Gleeson seems to be untouchable though, especially on here.

Prather ended up with the threepeat. Wildcats struck out.

Plenty of good authorities known by our anons.

“Respect my authoritie” (South Park).

I have it on best authority that Prather woke up one morning and said to himself 'wtf am I, a self-respecting professional basketball player, doing working for this shit organisation in this shithole with these shit people?'

Then he left.

Tai Wesley was able to begin his career in the NBL as a local due to his status as a Guamian American.

The NBL then decided to change the “local” classification from Oceania citizens to citizens of Aus, NZ and selected Asian countries.

If the NBL had not allowed him to play, and his earning capacity was adversely effected (which is highly likely) Wesley may have had legal recourse under restraint of trade and adverse action in employment laws. As a “local”, Wesley’s career will also be extended.

By playing for NZ, he is not necessarily jeopardising his chances of gaining Aus citizenship. Is he maintaining his residence of Australia and acting as a “seasonal worker” in NZ? What are the restrictions on citizenship applicants travelling outside Aus for seasonal work?

All of the above would best be answered by experts in citizenship, mployment law and immigration. For the NBL there is only a single instance, so it’s probably best not to open up a can of legal worms just to stop one player who has been good for the league anyway.

^^^
Two differing opinions on this, I’m in the Perth let him go over money. If he stayed at Perth could’ve they won it?

As for a move back to NZ, obviously it should still apply. Wouldn't be very fair if the league said "you can play as a local for any team except the Breakers."

^^^^
That’s it.

I'm pretty sure Perth asked Prather to take a pay cut to come back this season he refused and ended up signing with Melbourne for less than Perth paid him the year before.

“Prather wanted the same money as Cotton, didn't get so left and took United’s offer which was Perth original offer.”

That is not true at all.

Perth and NZ had the best rosters for years and spent more $$ than all and no body said jack, every team had the chance to sign who they like, Melbourne took chance on Hooley, Moller, even Barlow was a punt as did not play for two previous season due to injuries. Prather was out half the season and they still kept rolling. They won it fair and square.
Wesley is a huge loss but as with blanchfield before and now Wesley Melbourne set there limit on players and stick to it. Good luck to Tia.

United could still safely OFFER Ben Simmons $100 mill to play next season. It wouldn’t break the bank because he’d turn it down. Just as he would’ve turned down any NBL offer.

It’s not just deep pockets that count. It’s about how the league and working in Australia is seen by players from Australia and beyond. We will never poach current NBA players, but we can recruit potential and fringe NBA types.

The NBL needs to market itself to the public and to potential players. Judging by import quality and returning locals, as well as ticket sales and corporate sponsorship, things are looking up.

"Could" has nothing to do with it. It's about what they're willing to pay.

LK is worth $750 million or whatever it is- United could've sign Ben Simmons if they wanted to- as an Aussie Marquee player, they could've paid him $70 million a year and gone over the soft cap?

The group who owns Sydney has deep pockets too. Shawn Marion part owns NZ- same story.

They let go of Blanchfield because he wasn't worth it. It doesn't mean they couldn't outbid Sydney. LV "logic" in fine form today.

"Yet, they're allegedly not willing to pay him what somebody else will. If true then this shows that, despite the delusions of many, United don't have some unlimited budget that they're using to just buy championships."

It means they have someone a lot better lined up... who probably costs more.

The reigning view around here is that United has endlessly deep pockets.

How deep can they be, if they let their championship power forward walk away?

Fact is, United is one of many teams with deep pockets.

Why did United let Blanchfield go? He got a better offer from Sydney.

LV logic.

United bought a championship in 17/18.

But was outbid for Wesley for 18/19.

Therefore United can't have bought a championship in 17/18.

Please go back to Primary school, you missed a few classes.

Prather wanted the same money as Cotton, didn’t get so left and took United’s offer which was Perth original offer. Melbourne wouldn’t have spent as much as Sydney last season with all the players Sydney went through.

You mean like Perth didn't re-sign Prather when his price was supposedly too high for them, but then they did re-sign a different player whose price was way higher? So no one decision in isolation doesn't prove anything yet.

As a side note to this conversation, if Wesley does end up signing elsewhere than United, doesn't that put to an end these suggestions that United is cashed up and willing to outspend everybody else?

He just won a championship with United. He's won 2 with Vickerman. United knows his value better than anybody. Yet, they're allegedly not willing to pay him what somebody else will. If true then this shows that, despite the delusions of many, United don't have some unlimited budget that they're using to just buy championships.

Liam Santamaria for the NBL:

United have made it clear they are keen to re-sign Wesley but Stuff’s Marc Hinton reported that their initial offer “fell well short” of what will be required.

Yes all the best to him, has a good game enjoyed watching him in Melbourne. His wife is American and so is he born there, lived Guam when his father worked there, probably had duel American / Guam passports.

Are other players going to be granted a concession period if they show interest in naturalizing?

I guess if his wife is Kiwi it will be easier to become an NZ citizen so then it makes sense?

Not surprising, I predicted on these forums that Wesley would leave for NZ or Sydney. Teams with either money, or other connections.

Is his wife a Kiwi? Either way, he had at least his first kid while living in NZ, and it's probably a much cheaper- and potentially more family friendly- place to raise a family than Melbourne. And a place he's obviously familiar with.

Good on him. Well done on two great years at United.

I was hoping United would keep him since he'll remain a local. Puts the onus on United to find a good replacement I guess.

If Tai has been granted an extension of the Oceanic player exemption whilst he is undergoing naturalisation process, can't that be scrapped as moving to New Zealand is not intending to or in line with Naturalising process anymore.

You would think Breakers are the one team he wouldn't go to since it doesn't help his AU residency requirements. Unless he has decided to go after NZ residency? But then the length of time resets since he is in AU right now.

thought*

Hahaha I made the same mistake MACDUB and though "WHOAH! :o" until I re-read it.

Dammit - I got excited thinking we had got Tai Webster as my mind only focused in on "Tai W" on the headline.

So now that he moves back to an NZ team he won't satsify continuous residency in either AU or NZ. So how does it help him long term? The concession can't be forever surely?

Either you are or you aren't.

Are other players going to be granted a concession period if they show interest in naturalizing?

He'd still get a gig in the NBL as an import so this is really an advantage for any team that signs him...in this case, NZ.

While the ruling has changed, he's been granted a concession period given his intention/action to naturalise.

Nice pick up for the breakers, big loss for United.

What's the go with his contract, is he an import or local? Has he/is he naturalized or just being allowed to play as a local for now?

https://twitter.com/mattlogue7/status/986392920608534528?s=19

(Made this a dedicated Wesley thread.)

Where's the drimic source?