Hoops

Did LeBron ruin the Cavs?

I think LeBron fancies his team-building skills a little more than he should. Not convinced he can get along brilliantly with a very strategic coach that will coordinate and power a mid-range roster. And he carries a lot of influence in thinking "If I have Tristan and JR here, plus we get X and Y, surely I can make that work..."

In Miami, he had Allen and Battier, and that's on top of Haslem, Miller, Jones, etc and obviously Wade and Bosh. In Cleveland's championship, he had some vets that wouldn't need much hand-holding.

Cleveland 2018 had Calderon who didn't get played, Perkins in a suit, Korver who stunk up the Finals, JR who is a risky headcase, etc. Clarkson, Nance and Hood are still young. Green isn't great.

Anon #184 LeBron has mentioned that he has known JR since high school. They go back a long way which makes it easier to understand why he is being looked after. It really came back to bite him in Game 1...

JR Smith worth $15m? Was he ever better than he is now? Defensive, offensive and salary cap liability - all because he does gaytime hand jive things with LBJ.

As a sidenote to the MJ vs. LBJ debate now I have n00bs telling me KD is better than MJ. How people have short memories, a few days ago it was LBJ > MJ. Further proof people go with the current flavour (e.g. Kobe back in the day).

LeBron's "mate's rates" have really backfired on him. I knew the pay was too steep but wow $50mil steep is shocking.

Front office has lots to answer for.

JR Smith isn't worth $15mil a year. Nowhere near it.

Trades didn't work out and now they're stuck paying George Hill $20mil /yr.

Two overpaid guards on $35 mil between them.

Add Tristan Thompson to that and you've got 3 guys on $50 mil/yr. Half the salary cap.

Although to be fair, at the time Thompson's deal didn't seem as horrible as it does now. He hasn't come along as hoped.

"MJ got swept in the first round a couple of times"

He got beat down by Celtics, Pistons but plugged away and ended up beating them. Not leaving for Miami.

Jordan's early teammates make LeBrons look like the warriors.

Brooklyn mortgaged their future and it was for nothing. So you can argue that there is a cost for that Cavs championship, but the road they've taken is little different to that of other teams making questionable moves but without much to show for it.

In the history books, a championship is everything.

MJ is a winner therefore GOAT. LBJ horrible win % in Finals.

If le Bron isn’t a winner I’d like to lose as much. GOAT

Kyrie told the Cavs if they didn't trade him he would have offseason knee surgery and miss the season. Instead they traded him, he didn't have the surgery, and ended up missing the playoffs for Boston because of a knee injury. As a Cavs fan it felt like a tiny bit of karma at least...

"No reason Kyrie shouldn't still be there"

What do you mean?

He didn't want to be there. He basically left. Don't know how you equate that to Lebron "nuking the roster".

People will make out like LBJ/management pushed him away and that may well be a contributing factor - but 90% of it came down to Kyrie simply wanting to move on.

Whilst I have said above that I think the benefit the Cavs got out of it definitely outweighed the cost of it all - I will say (as GreggJulian has alluded to), that LBJ did on some occasions force the Cavs into some bad deals both in 2008-2010 and again in 2015-2016. The Cavs back in 2009 from memory were cooked financially and I remember they signed Shaq and had other players on ridicolous money. From memory, I remember the main reason he left Miami was because the Cavs were in such a cooked financial position with hamstrung contracts that they simply couldn't afford to get other FA's to join LBJ in CLE.

Anyway - as I said above, it was all worth it. And the harder you push for a championship, the more mistakes you are probably going to make so hard to be critical from my perspective and I support it.

It's hard to agree that LeBron "ruined" the Cavs when they became one of 6 teams (GSW did too, at the same time) to make it to 4 consecutive NBA Finals series in NBA history. And they picked up one ring in that stretch against one of the best rosters in history.

Sure, they've mortgaged their future to get there (agree with some of the earlier comments regarding some pretty awful contracts), but I'm pretty sure any other franchise would still take the last 4 year run in a heartbeat.

As long as we're not discussing in a year's time how LBJ ruined the Sixers ...

"It can be both. He gave the Cavs great success, but also screwed them over by insisting on signing players well above their worth."

Disagree that it can be both. Its a simple case of cost vs. Benefit. The only question at the end of the day is basically whether the championship and finals series, sponsorship $ etc all outweighed signing players up to big deals?

That for me is a resounding yes. It was all worth it. Without a doubt.

So many teams in the league are cooked as it is without having the championships, finals appearances and success that CLE have had. I know what Id rather have as an owner.

It can be both. He gave the Cavs great success, but also screwed them over by insisting on signing players well above their worth.

As said above they won the title.

People forgot how big that was for not only the franchise but the entire city.

You'd happily take a championship and all the finals appearances they've had even if it meant a bad rebuilding period after.

Think about how many teams out there who haven't won a title over the last 30 years.

- He broke the city's title drought

- He took them to the Finals every year he was there. Without him they don't make the Finals once in that span

- Wiggins was given ample opportunity to show his wares in Minnesota and hasn't, so logic says he doesn't become a superstar in Cleveland either

- Can't comment on Kevin Love, but it is highly unlikely they even consider him if LeBron isn't there. They brought in Love to fit with Bron, Wiggins would've stayed as a ball-dominant player if Bron wasn't there

- Cleveland is not a desirable free agent destination, so it's not as though they could build a contender with acquisitions

- Cleveland front office seems to be off the rails, so if they continued getting lottery picks there is no guarantee that would pan out well

- Kyrie may have gotten sick of the losing and wanted to leave

- LeBron single-handedly brought millions and millions to the Cleveland economy

Made the finals how many times since joining?

With Kyrie and Wiggins they would have still sucked and would never have won a title. So, no.

Hey I am looking to play some extra basketball on saturdays. Preferably in the North-East of Adelaide

Cheers