Hoops

BA plans to scrap SEABL

BA also sucked money out of the NBL. They are utter leeches.

BA have responsibility until 2020. I would hope that the SEABL will continue on and rip the guts out of BA. BA took all the SEABL's money and now 3 seasons later it's too expensive! Let's hope the SEABL teams play next season as the status quo and develop a plan that will see them stick it up BA and finally make some money for their own clubs. Seabl teams pay $60 grand for flights and accommodation. A rip off. Cheaper flights and accommodation are available if the teams book it themselves without having to travel when told too. No massive association fees either.

Nope. Not sure that anyone does at this stage.

it all seems to have gone quiet. anyone know what is happening?

Wonder what would happen if there was no restriction of players at all.

That would mean that state leagues & SEABL clubs would have all NBL players and any imports they wanted/can afford. Maybe, we would see NBL players gracing our off season leagues instead of heading OS. The best will still go OS, the rest can stay in game fitness and "touch" in our own leagues, even in their home environs.

Obviously, some cashed-up clubs will spend big and create a few super teams. Say 2 or 3 per state and perhaps more in Vic. Could be the 2nd tier national comp we hear about year after year.

What about the costs? Sure they would be so high that the vast majority of clubs would stay put. The ones who can afford to go bonkers with spending on players can also afford the subsequent costs of this super league.

Finally (probably not actually, "finally", but anyway), with the inevitable expansion of the NBL, the super league would prepare more of our up-and-comers better in a league that featured unrestricted players across the board, rather than a league that effectively limits how many "top" players are allowed.

Then, Mt G and the Tassie teams would be well catered for, 1 or 2 FNQ teams and Gold and Sunny coasts may be interested, know little of elsewhere but certainly believe 3 , 4 or 5 clubs from Vic, NSW may good for 2,3 or 4, be good if SA could get 1 more and even WA for at least 2 teams (would not travel there for just 1 game per trip from any where else.) NT, hullo... any interest?

There, a long post with some of my thoughts. If you got this far, I thank you for your effort.

So aside from the conjecture of Mt Gambier and where they will (if at all) play, how will this new competition work ?
Will it be sitting within BV, completely autonomous from the Big V ?
Or will it sit above the Big V, as the new top Division, adding some of the stronger clubs in State Champ, with the remaining teams to filter through into the lower divisions.
Will this new structure then also have Promotion / Relegation (as the Big V has now) ?
Will the remaining State Champ teams become Division 1 now, with the rest of the Divisions to follow ?

I know a few local coaches that don't know how to recruit because they don't know where they'll sit in the new structure.
Will the new "Division one ", which would contain many of the State Champ teams from 2018, be allowed 2 restricted players as they always have been ?
Or being in the second tier of the comp, would they lose that right ?

Anyone out there with some knowledge / sources able to answer any of this ?

Your 100% right above. The ? must be asked why this is happening and why a club with great success and 30 years of history is being compromised when others are not. If you had a club that you love and that club had been successful and had acted in good faith for decades how would you feel if it was asked to go play in a completion that it is clearly too good for and which would likely lead to either total domination of the competition or extinction for your club. All of this with no notice.

Anon above. Good point Mount Gambier has provided a vehicle for many young SA players to compete at a higher level without moving to Melbourne or Queensland. This has enabled their families to follow them by regularly travelling to games. Most regional SEABL teams are full of non locals. Mount Gambier have been developing local talent with 7 of their squad of 13 this season mount juniors. Their Adelaide "imports" have all settled in the city. There is no reason for this trend not to continue if the Pioneers remain in a next level comp.

MG do have a viable competition to join and that's the one they have been part of for 30 plus years. They have never been asked to have a women's team but should be now. To expect the team that has been the most successful in the competition over the last 6 years (5 finals and 3 championships)to go and play in a competition far inferior to SEABL in not practical or morally right. It may be convenient for BA but not for MG or BSA. The new Vic comp is just SEABL rebranded to suit a few Melbourne powerbrokers minus Canberra and MG. Canberra going to Waratah is probably practical (certainly not their state league)and they may be ok with that. BTW travelling to MG for Melbourne teams is far more cost effective than travelling to Tas and then driving the length of the state.

That may be what BTas think and BA would like. Anyone that understands
the premier league and Mount Gambier know its a terrible fit. Neither party would be keen. Mount Gambier should be afforded the same opportunity that Albury and the Tas clubs look like having. Clearly having a women's team should be a requirement.

The nbl clubs won’t let there players play in end season comp, they want them back training. The season already gets very close to clashing.

I think the demise of the SEABL is actually a progressive step towards bringing back an end-of-season 'National Championship'.

- SEABL disbanded and replaced by an expanded BigV (including the Tassie teams).
- Mt Gambier and Albury would stay in the BigV due to their strength.
- Canberra and AIS into the Waratah League.

8-team National Championship at the end of the year....

3x BigV/Tas
2x QBL
1x WA SBL
1x SA Premier League
1x Waratah

Back to the dark ages.

Correct. This is a "sad joke" BA have gone off half cocked and now we have total uncertainty about clubs futures with no notice. Spare a thought for players who have moved their lives and have jobs and families and now are told they have no basketball future if they don't move again. Who is responsible for this?

However this all gets sorted out from now, it’s already taken too long. It’s a joke when clubs (both SEABL and Big V) don’t know the structure of what they’ll be playing in next season, in the time where they start recruiting. Amateur hour.

What about how those things happened when Pasadena opened as well. And the only reason they don’t apply now is because church have steadily decrease in numbers since the advent of domestic competitions.

The issue is that clubs can’t generate income. The reason the sport doesn’t grow in SA is because BSA wastes money rather than putting it back into programs which create money.

That doesn’t change. Of BSA were reasonable with rentals. Club could devote more of the competition revenue to infrastructure to increase competition size. Thus helping grow the spot and increase BSA revenue. It’s a short sighted idea to rip profits and not put it back into increasing participation levels.

You need to go and look at the Knox or Dandenong competition websites. The Vic based clubs all run week day domestic competitons. Because Dandenong has a full quota of games on saturdays with just their u12-u16 competitons. And that’s on 16 courts. They use other nights and after schools to run their girls, older and younger competitons. And BV only gets rego fees. BSA gets it all.

What’s stopping the other from doing it is employing someone, because BSA won’t help them, and you can’t pay someone to start it when you aren’t generating any income from it.

I actually said ‘which Vic associations are using the the same facilities’ but thanks for going back 20 years in SA to prove you can’t win an argument.

Woodvile actually were in huge debt to BSA as well and pulled out of SEABL because it couldn’t continue to waste that money. And look where they are now.

Btw. Still waiting for you to point out which associations are sharing their factory in Vic.

When Wayville stadium opened. Church ran Saturday competitons from 1pm-6pm and have done so since.

When Pasadena opened. It did the same. I’ve played and coach in Church competitons at both as well as at Hillcrest.

Those domestic competitons have a clause isn’t whir contract about allowing BSA to use thei venue at their discretion with 6 week notice. Is for country carnivals etc. Or TI camps. And they do.

BSA charge $30+ minimum per court per hour which is more than half or what what is made by the competitons per game.

Norwood are the only club running mid week minivall and domestic games.

All Facts.

Easy to call Fake news. But sorry you sound like Donald Trump.

Clubs have struggled to run domestic comps because BSA have historically rented the facilities out to other competitons. Most notably Church Basketball.

And they also stop clubs from using the stadiums on weekends when ever they want for other carnivals, competitons etc.

Plus BSA make more from rent per hour than the clubs running those competitions do. Which currently are very small.

The only club able to run real domestic competitons. Note that is plural. Is Norwood as they don’t have to deal with BSA run stadiums.

Anon #623

Name one other situation where 2 associations operate out of the same stadium in Vic?

Clubs are the equivalent of associations in SA.

Reality and anon #529

The issue is that BSA own the venue leases and lock clubs out. They take all the revenue so clubs are unable to manage expansion because they have no revenue to pay staff other than fees which are already exorbitant compared to other sports and interstate.

The Western Magic situation best shows how badly run BSA are. They did not bring an increase in playing numbers as they claimed. They were set up at the same venue as a current club and merely moved players across from close clubs by offering lower fees and no pathways. And now complain because despite not wanting to have senior teams, they want the opportunity in higher grades for their junior.

If this club was set up at Salisbury where no current clubs pull players. No one would have an issue, but the lies and underhanded methods they have used is a huge issue.

Until the commission and BSA change their operation methodology, the clubs cannot grow to the point where they are able to travel to Mildura, My Gambier or anywhere else.

Clubs struggled to attend National ABL weekends due to money and nothing has changed since.

Anon above. I figure your guessing just like everyone else. Your right Mount Gambier don't have any leverage just 30 years of history in what was a successful and vibrant competition. Maybe they can put a women's team in the competition? Who knows what the requirement is? All of this is ill conceived, poorly planned and irresponsible. BA thought they had 12 months to get things in order and now are trying to, with BV to set things up on the fly. Expect a mess.

Well said SA hoops, exactly.

Clubs in SA simply can’t afford it because BasketballSA take all the competition revenue.

Plus they charge clubs to practice at their home stadium at market rates.

And then take all the money for domestic competitons for themselves. A few clubs are now in the infancy stages of running their own comps. But they are still very small.

BSA can’t demand teams travel to ply, because clubs will unite against them and ALL refuse to do it.

There is no compelling reason for them to change.

What is unbelievable is that BV and the member clubs want to take over SEABL and have done a back door deal with BA. And then don’t want to spend the money it takes to play at that level.

No SA club is under any illusion that they are competitive with SEABL clubs. But Vic clubs want to try their hand. So pony up and travel. Or play second tier. Like the SA league is.

Love it, Bear! Weren't BA going to be responsible for the 2nd tier national comp some 3 to 4 years ago?

2×9 for Div1 sorry ^^

Possible Vic Structure:

PREMIER LEAGUE (2 conferences of 8)

Dandenong
Kilsyth
Geelong
Bendigo
Ballarat
Sandringham
Hobart
NW Tassie
Albury/Wodonga
Mt Gambier
Nunnawading
Frankston
Melbourne
Diamond Valley
Ringwood
Eltham

VIC CHAMPIONSHIP (2 conferences of 8)

Waverley
Casey
Hawthorn
Knox
McKinnon
Hume City
Werribee
Keilor
Blackburn
Corio
Chelsea
Shepparton
Keysborough
Western Port
Warrandyte
Warrnambool


DIVISION ONE (2 conferences of 8)

Melbourne Uni
Bulleen
Collingwood
Whittlesea
Sunbury
Latrobe
Coburg
Craigieburn
Camberwell
Mildura
Melton
Sth Peninsula
Pakenham
Altona
Maccabi
Wallan
Sherbrooke
Nth East

Not if it’s all basically all metro teams plus Tasmania. There was a rumour of Tasmania trying for nznbl.

So we wreck the best winter basketball comp because some big vic clubs don’t want to find the money just as seabl playing standard was getting better and better.

Fact is, all the VIC SEABL clubs are already travelling to Mt Gambier and Tassie...what would change?

If the Vic 'Premier League' pans out, the in reality, the majority of current Big V Champ clubs will still be playing in a lower level.

While I am an advocate of the SEABL and do not want it to go, apart from losing Canberra and Sydney Sparks, not much really changes apart from BV running the show compared to BA.

The challenge as I see it is whether BV can cope with running another Big V division that is elite. It would be divisions in total....Premier, Champ, D1, D2, VYC, YL1, YL2 if nothing else changed.

How about a community picnic, maybe a cycle ride or community door to door campaign, a charity style auction or sell some club items online, even offer coaching clinics for cash towards funding the team?

Trivia nights are fun, local golf courses may get on board for a tournament, maybe a bingo night or two, what about a car wash day on the beach, perhaps a games night or bowling night?

You can do raffles, silent auctions, walkathons, crowd funding, contact businesses, do photo shoots and yes even bake some cakes! Or you can do nothing and be a sad sack I guess.

A chocolate drive can net you $1,000 easily.

One Bunnings sausage sizzle can reap you $1,000 profit!

It’s is the best league in Australia after the nbl and is played through winter to allow basketball lovers to watch good competition, I would rather see less teams if some of the Melbourne teams don’t want to travel or don’t have the money, so be it, don’t join the elite winter competition. Let the sides willing to put up the money and travel be in the seabl, pretty simple to me.

Two things:

1. It isn't a vastly increased cost, it is an overnight stay if you want it to be.

2. Factor it in and budget for it like everyone else, or get a sponsor, like Mt Gambier does.

These are excuses in my mind, not reasons...

Just on the cost issue surrounding teams going to Mt Gambier, we need to look at it objectively.

It costs Mt Gambier ten times what it costs any other single team in their Division to do that trip...

If Mt Gambier is happy to enter and pay for the logistics at their end the argument is moot against them IMHO...

Seabl ....... south east Australian basketball league, last I looked mount gambier were very south. This is just a vic take over, Sandringham, Frankston, Melbourne have hardly been solid over the last few seasons despite their imports and big names.

@Reality, I get what you are saying, but I refuse to believe the reason basketball can't move forward in this country is because of self interest and human nature.

We are already talking about SEABL being broken down and restructured, all we need now is some forward thinking leadership!

Is that too much to ask for...?

Ok, I am about to launch from left field, bare (no pun intended) with me while I try to throw a spanner into this conversation.

The dialogue has been consistently pushing towards problems, winding SEABL down and pushing the State leagues into stepping up and taking on their own teams while the majority agree that Vitoria will remain dominant.

Why not look at it from an opposing angle?

I have not done the analysis or structure planning for this idea, I am just throwing it out there to see if anyone sees traction in it.

Here goes:

Reform SEABL if you want, but instead of limiting it, expand it as a true national league that includes State competition with national competition, introduce conferences and get the NBL on board to help run it as a winter version of the NBL Light or whatever.

If we can unite the basketball heavy weights and get everyone in the same bloody room and on the same damn page, why can't we go a fully semi-pro competition during winter with plenty of teams, work out logistics and other cost factors but present it as a huge improvement.

Go national, get the media on board, approach the Foxtel and free to air networks with this concept, give the NBL players a chance to stay here on some reduced wage, provide a reasonable set of rules to keep salaries in check and bloody well go for it...!

There, I've thrown it, now is anyone prepared to catch it and run with it?

Yes, but they are south Australian. Why should the Vic teams have an SA team club that doesn't bother with a women's team and then loads up on imports so they can win. Maybe if they concentrated on developing the youth in Mt G and surrounding areas, they could compete in the SA comp, cause again they're in SA and it would be good for SA country.

Mt Gambier is the Basketball SA league would be a huge mis match as well.

Not to mention they don’t have a women’s team like all other teams in the league.

Tassy has 2 solid leagues. One in Hobart and the other in Launceston.
This is about Vic having the premier competition and they cant do that without including Tassy teams.

This makes no sense. So it was intended for those outside of Vic to play in their own states. Canberra to Waratah not their state, Tassy teams to Melbourne, not their state, COE ??? (they'll end up in Vic because it suits BA) - not their state. Pioneers to Adelaide yes their state but complete mismatch. There is no common sense or practical plan in any of this. Particularly as SEABL was a great and viable competition. Basketball Victoria are the only beneficiaries of this decision.

If Darwin can have its own league I struggle to see how Tassie can’t get one off the ground

Why should the SA clubs take the extra cost.

Especially considering the lack of domestic competitons and therefore funds to offset the cost.

Fees to play for a club in SA would already be double that for a Vic club.

ALbury-Wodonga is interesting the BigV Already has the Nort East Bushrangers who play in various stadiums in that area (with a poor supporter base, friends and parents) i would think they can't both survive.

I think Mount would be great in the Vic League, it would up budget needs and that has to be a concern. SA seem to be the ones not helping the situation if they have no intention of taking a team from the state in their league????

Mount don't need grandfathering just fair and reasonable support from BA. They would obviously enhance any new competition.

My other concern is the talent drain on officials, the Big V has struggled since it expanded with more YL Divisions the quality of officials has been poor in the lower levels Div 2 YL1/YL2 and it only likely to get worse.

I know its a tough job being a ref - but spreading the resources thin and making officials travel from albury to melbourne for Div 2 games you can't understand why they are grumpy and not interested.

I thinkt he Big V needs a shake up and a shake out of some teams, it also needs a shot in the arm from a media and interaction point of view a weekly video blog isn't good enough anymore in this day and age look at football leagues and rugby leagues the presentation has to be better, live streaming with commentary, media pieces more links to local papers .... make the league a destination