Hoops

Melbourne v Brisbane Dec 10

In some past thread, someone showed stats for the best points production for the various combinations.

Does anyone have something like this to prove or disprove which combinations work?

I feel McCarron's growth has been stunted by going to United. He should've gone to Europe like he had planned, then been another signing for the new SE Melbourne team.

Another option worth trying again is Barlow at the 5.

In the first Sydney matchup, it worked a treat as Bogut unsuccessfully tried to defend Barlow at one end, while Bogut was unable to make use of his size advantage at the other.

Plenty of teams are playing at least occasional small ball, so in those instances this allows United to fight fire with fire. And as with the Bogut example, sometimes it could be used to create favourable mismatches- plenty of 5's would struggle to defend Barlow with his range and newly re-discovered ability to attack the hoop off the dribble. Vickerman could combine this line up with disruptive defensive schemes aimed at stopping teams from isolating the opposing big against Barlow down low.

In the Sydney game, Gaze just didn't run any low post plays. Bogut tried a pick and roll or two but that was it. Generally he was ineffective when Barlow was defending him. In a different scenario the opposing coach might try to go straight for the low post iso. In that case, Vickerman would need to be implementing something disruptive up the floor to avoid that scenario. Double teaming the point then going into switching D, or a press of some sort, or maybe a zone D which allows easier double teams of the post. Etc etc.

Barlow had a well documented stellar start to the season, but the last couple of games haven’t been so great.

If his struggles continue, it may be useful bringing him off the bench and hoping for the type of bench impact he had in the GF.

Bring Moller into the starting 5, where his energy and athleticism can be a great foil for opposing 3 men. This will give Kennedy an opportunity to shine, since Moller is an even lower usage player than Barlow. Last season Moller’s big minutes after Prather’s injury played a key role in turning United’s season around.

Ware/Goulding/Moller/Kennedy/Boone

Another option could be combining the above with McCarron coming in for CG, giving a starting 5 of:

Ware/McCarron/Moller/Kennedy/Boone

I’d also like to see a bit of this, when Casper’s off the court:

McCarron/Goulding/Moller/Kennedy/Boone

CG and Moller are both signed for next season, and McCarron’s got 2 years left. Let’s try to get them developing some chemistry. It’d also help Vickerman work out what type of players we need to complement them for next season.

I’m sure Vickerman’s trying all sorts of things on the practice court, but sometimes it pays to throw people in the deep end in a game scenario– you never know what might happen.

Vickerman doesn't have a lot of faith in his bench at the moment, needs to find some line-ups he can get production out of them in.

Agree with McCarron starting, Goulding needs to be happy playing the Steindl role. His whingeing and carry-on for every foul call against him is ridiculous too.

I think there is a few things going wrong with United. Sending McCarron to the bench seems to be losing him and I thought they had better balance with him starting and Goulding coming off the bench. I know he's had injuries but I genuinely think Goulding is starting to decline now.

They made a mistake signing Kennedy over Patterson and I think they've doubled down on that mistake by sticking with him for too long. It was quite obvious early on he was never going to be a star in this league certainly not in Prather's league and along with Wesley's departure needed an import at that spot they could give the ball to to get them out of trouble when things break down.

Boone looks just about done. Like Goulding I know he's had injuries but his seem like the typical lingering injuries that usually plague big men towards the end of their careers. He's only just turned 34 but it seems like his body is breaking down and probably can't be replaced until after the season.

Pledger hasn't really come on as well as they would've hoped and Tohi appears to have entered a witness protection program all compounding the loss of Wesley.

Agree, McCarron should be playing more in the guard spots, they were fine with Goulding out and him there.

Agree Paul, I think the balance overall is OK

With the caveat that they're a little thin in the backcourt- McCarron playing extensively at the 3, so the bulk of the backcourt minutes are going to Ware and CG like last year. An 11 man rotation with two slow bigs sitting on the bench essentially means it's a 9 man rotation.

They're heavily reliant on Ware- with the possible exception of Bogut in Sydney, there isn't another player in the league who means as much to his team as Ware does to United IMO. Cotton in Perth probably comes in 3rd, but they seemed to do alright without him.

But other than that, the question isn't so much balance for me. It's whether they're good enough.

There's no panic stations here- 2 losses doesn't change the fact that they're 2nd on the ladder. They've beaten highly rates Sydney twice (the first result a comfortable win, despite the 7 point final margin), and they lost in double overtime in Perth after "questionable" reffing and a late game injury to Goulding who had been red hot.

But on the other hand, there are some question marks.

"IMO, outside of Goulding, Ware and Kennedy if he gets going, Melbourne's roster is full of role players. I think they have a nice balance, and a couple of losses doesn't change that for me."

In terms of NBL, Ware, Goulding, Kennedy, Boone, Barlow and McCarron are all very good players. Boone and McCarron are prob the 2 that play a role. Guys like Moller, Hooley etc take way too many shots so IMO they don't play a role, they want theirs too. If they click towards the end of the season though, it'll be tough for every other team.

I don't think another team has a lineup that strong.

Kings: Bogut, Randle, Lisch, Newley (Kickert borderline the way they are using him)
Cats: Cotton, Kay, Terrico (everyone else plays a role depending on what's required)
Bullets: Gliddon, Patterson

Yes I'm a Cats fan, but I think the reason why they are top is everyone buys into the system and has a role. Wagstaff (points off the bench if needed), Hire (hustle and rebounding), Steindl (outside shooting), Martin (defense), Norton (passing adding extra offense), Brandt/Jervis (negating the other bigs), Vague (length). I don't feel there are many other players on other teams you can say what their roles are apart from those that score?

"I think United have too many "good" players and not enough "role" players."

IMO, outside of Goulding, Ware and Kennedy if he gets going, Melbourne's roster is full of role players. I think they have a nice balance, and a couple of losses doesn't change that for me.

Yeah Boone isn't a high usage guy, but hard for him to get into the game when Barlow is trying to snatch up every rebound and run the floor. Think you hit the nail on the head though with Prather and Wesley being huge loses, both a hell of a lot better than Barlow and Kennedy.

Boone is not really a high usage type of player though is he? Why I thought he fit well there was because he is still effective when others are doing the creating.
Prather & Wesley are huge losses. They're both so versatile that they allow others to play to their strengths.
Still plenty of talent on that roster but it's not the same "pick your poison" dilemma for opposition teams that it was last season.

I think United have too many "good" players and not enough "role" players. Everyone wants a piece of the pie, Barlow I think is stifling what Kennedy and Boone can do.

United is 9-5, that's halfway through the season which might be a good time to reflect on where they are at.

They've won a lot of close games by virtue of clutch plays and being slightly better than their opponents down the stretch. 12 of their 14 games have been decided by 8 points or less. 5 of their games have been decided by 3 points or less, OR gone into overtime.

Some of those wins were against teams who have since changed imports or whose imports were under done at the time (United beat Adelaide with Deleon, and Brisbane with Patterson before he got going). United has also beaten Sydney twice, and Sydney could easily make a major upgrade to their roster by replacing Wear.

So, United clearly needs to improve. Where's that improvement going to come from?

Are Boone and Kennedy completely safe?

Kendle does all the hard work and Cadee comes on to take the credit, typical.

Some woeful plays throughout the game, Te Rangi travel into an airball from outside the arc, Barlow airballing, Kennedy and Boone constantly missing buckets under the ring.

Everyone talks about Terrico not being good enough, as a Cats fan, I'd take him all day over DJK, constant lack lustre performances and it amazes me how often his shots and put backs just roll off and out of the ring.

"Do Melb have the balls to try Goulding off the bench?"

They already have.

Chump

Lovebroker, do you feel me yet?

put some choo choo on they train

Put some respeck on they name now

It is inexcusable for a team with cg 43 kennedy and mccaron not to find an open shooter from the ware double, make cg43 the closest player to casper, double if you dare

Vickerman was right in the presser, needed other guys to step up when Casper was getting doubled. Didn't happen

Jason Caee.

Have fittingly left the d out on purpose. He’s a matador at best.

The trouble is, with Boone struggling to handle back to back games, how's he going to get through a best of 3 or best of 5?

He's definitely a step slower than last year.

United has a roster where they're relying on big output at the offensive end from the same 4 or 5 guys. They have good defenders throughout the depth chart, but they don't have a great deal of scoring depth. When CG isn't on his game, Boone's sore and sitting on the bench, Kennedy's not having an impact... you're not getting the win.

Vickerman was right in the presser, needed other guys to step up when Casper was getting doubled. Didn't happen

Melbourne chose Kennedy over Patterson what a fuck up. Time to check Boone into the aged care facility!!!

Do Melb have the balls to try Goulding off the bench?

I’m on board.

Bullet trains need long, straight tracks to build up to full speed.

The Nullabor to Perth rail line happens to have the world’s longest straight section of track.

How much speed and momentum will the bullet train have in Perth?

Next station, red army devastation.

What's up with Boone?

Great D by Brisbane, doubled Casper and United had no answers

In that situation CG, Kennedy must step up. They didn't. Kennedy sat for most of 2nd half. That's bizarre

Patterson the perfect addition to this team

Perth didn't get any sydney while they were working it out, I'd say it more than balances out. Patterson was very well spoken, seemed extremely genuine aboit the belief in the squad, they very well could go top 4!

"Lemanis has haters, not knockers. (It is Gleeson who has knockers)"

Amazing.

"Melbourne mentally shot. Brisbane just shot up the ladder to No.2/1. Love to see them take on Perth right now."

Agreed. Perth lucky to get 3 of their Bris games out of the way before Patterson settled in properly.

Perthworld is established as being on board. Who else wants to join us for frivolity and high jinks riding the rails?

Kendle's injection really changed that game; big-time. When Cadee came back on I thought "Oh no", but they closed it out OK.

Kendle can flat out play and he looks unbelievably comfortable - the complete opposite of someone who has played sporadically in the NBL;

Goulding just looks a step slow right now - doesn't have that same handle/light of foot to his game at this point. Not sure if its from the injury or what?

Lemanis has haters, not knockers. (It is Gleeson who has knockers)

Tom what are you on? Bullets aren't 1st or second after the win. They are looking much better though, that is true

Melbourne mentally shot. Brisbane just shot up the ladder to No.2/1. Love to see them take on Perth right now.

Trist is such a poser.

Does Vickerman understand the travel rule? Think he has asked several times each possession and is yet to get it called.

You know, since is Japanese and that's the home of the original bullet train.

Got to pay homage to the land of the samurai.

Melbourne is missing Wesley out of the post.

Losing the battle for Kay hurt big time.

OH Patterson you are too good. Only taken 11 shots to date. Melbourne panicking right now.

Will Hiejima finally get some minutes?

Moller ain't stopping this train

DO YOU FEEL ME YET

Kendle.

Brisbane is for real.

I think we have our top 4, barring major injuries.

Jeremy Kendle looks like Hooley but is a significantly better player!!!

United cooked.

Nbl tv you're kidding me