Hoops

Sydney Kings 2019/20

According to Liam Santamaria's FA post on NBL.com.au, Kickert is team option? Interesting - first I've heard that.

Bogut may want him regardless of that though.

The word out of Wollongong is that Bevo was lazy and let all the other staff to do all the heavy lifting. Plus he continually bad mouthed people within the club to sponsors, media and fans. All off the record of course, but it now has surfaced. Apparently Norton and Kay also left because they did not respect the way he operated dispite the club pleading with them to stay matching Perth's offers. We need something different here in Sydney Not surprised he does not have the gig yet. Kings doing there homework.

Clearly its not Bevo or they would have announced already.

FFS. Why do all these post repeat what I have been saying since pre-season 2018.

Can anyone from Kings management or JVG confirm that they read any of these posts, and if so, who made the import selections, and what were the constraints preventing them from making the changes required?

Love him or hate him the big criticism of Bogut is that he didn't do enough offensively to warrant MVP (although he was far from a crab)
So I think an offensive starting PF is a must. Whilst I think he improved I don't think Wear was what they need.
I read that the 2nd year was a club option so they can replace him.
I personally think somebody a little quicker and more athletic than average would be a good offensive option.
Perhaps somebody more like Wiley??

Hang on, did I miss something, has Bevo been named coach?

Fair calls on Ellis, I just don't think he was that terrible.

Agreed, a starting PF, possibly a PF/C who can bring some hustle and strong play inside especially with Bogut off the floor.

It will be interesting to see what Bevo can put together, can he bring someone like Ogilvy in to back up Bogut for example, given that Ogilvy seems to be a back up these days

My ideal team would be something like

Bogut/Ogilvy

Eric Jacobsen or Jacob Wiley type (depending on budget)/Kickert

Lamar Patterson/Newley

Lisch/Wilson

Trimble or Clarke/Weeks type (i think Weeks is signed to NZ still) wouldnt be shocked if Kevin White or someone like that gets this spot, which is ok aslong as the starter plays the bulk of the minutes

Kickert is a good backup not a championship team starter I think they still need a starting 4. Bogut doesn't need an import level guy backing him up just someone solid like say Hodgson or Pledger.

Perry Ellis was better than Kickert and Wear combined, but is not what the Kings need

They need a guy who can hustle and rebound and help out bogut and help cover for him when he is off, especially if Kickert is retained.

Perry Ellis got cut by Wuerzburg ( the side Xavier cooks is playing very well for) and is playing in Turkey in side running last in there top division, not starting either. He couldn’t defend a bar stool, a kings requirement the last few seasons but you get found out.
As Homicide says, this is not a cup cake league, can’t see any nbl side showing interest.

@Senator11 - I'm not disputing that as much, but you were using Ellis's numbers as a reason why he was awesome/why we didn't love him, and there's more to it than that... I'm sure he could do well in the NBL, but he wasn't good for the Kings...

Kings should go after AJ Ogilvy as a backup to Bogut , I cant see AJ as a starter anymore

"Just putting up numbers is not a decent argument..."

It was for Conger who I feel was a fail by 36ers...

What was Wears argument?

Trimble has put up decent numbers and it's a decent enough reason for him to stay in the league.

My point is, in the right situation a guy like Ellis would work in the NBL.

re: Turner - cool, thanks AngusH, I wasn't reading many articles around the time Turner got picked up, so I clearly missed it... His last couple of games certainly didn't do his stock any harm, that's for sure, especially Game 2...

I've been highly critical of Ellis for all the above reasons, which are true, but also true was that he was brought in as a small 5 which was fricking STUPID... JvG wanted another GSW or whatever, so being played out of position didn't help him, but from seeing all his games, he was a liability and would NOT want him to return to the NBL for a team that I supported...

Just putting up numbers is not a decent argument...

Look at who Ellis was playing along side though, He was brought in as an offensive guy, but the load of playing C at times then back to PF. He was in a front court that contained Humphries, Singh, and headcase Tyler. Like Trimble would be more impressive on a decent roster.

I should say, I think Perry can be a fine import in the nbl, especially if you have rebounding help on the wings. Kings current gen have lacked that and have been poor rebounders in the Gaze era.

Ellis really struggled on D in the post. No upper body strength and not enough length to trouble guys. Rebound numbers don't exist in a vacuum and Perry put up average rebounding numbers on a poor rebounding team.

Must get a decent Import PF to partner Bogut, everything else is secondary.
Bogut to give him his due credit is a beast defensively, just need somebody at the offensive end. Can't keep relying on the backcourt. Wear, even though he improved, isn't it.

Kickert is contracted, and nobody else wants him, so the best use of him is on the bench.
If Wear is contracted, fuck me, then need to move him to the 3. Whether he starts at 3, or backs up the 3 & 4 could depend on matchups and the coaches gameplan.

Turner as I said would be fine as one of the locals if he naturalises and comes cheap. Although I would prefer youth, both Pienua and Ding Dong were woeful this year.

Perry Ellis was the guy thanks.

Lol at comments about him, averaged 15pts and 6rbds and was one of the shining lights for the Kings that season. Undersized for a PF? He's the same height as Wagstaff and would towel Wagstaff up in a 1 on 1. SMH. Not sure what people expect in the NBL.

Current NBL starting PF averages. Note, only Kay put up better averages and Ellis is on par with Wesley who is touted as one of the best PF's in the game.

Kay: 15pts 8.5rbds
Wesley: 14.5pts 5.5rbds
Bairstow: 12pts 6rbds
Wear: 7pts 5rbds
Conklin: 14.6pts 5rbds
Loe: 7.5pts 5rbds
Wiley: 12pts 5rbds

FWIW with Turner I don't have a link handy but the naturalisation comment came from him around the time he signed, might have been an article on NBL.com.au.

Humphries struggles defending in the 5, lol at the 4. Deng is more 3 than 4. Pick the coach keep JVG away if he’s still with the kings and let coach get his team. Gaze got blamed a lot but he let JVG pick his team, failure from day one.

Big Red and Nevill? I can't even consider that those are serious options, even on here...

Coach is obviously the first and most important cog, and it's a bit concerning already that they're talking about "rounds of interviews" etc... It's a simple equation... Got get Goorj (if he's honestly interested) and/or Bevo... Simples...

Next step is to make sure Kickert and Wear's second season deals are team options and ditch them, or if they're not, still ditch them... Either of them on the team and it's starting off on the wrong and lame foot...

I'd like to see anything legit on Turner naturalising, as I'm just assuming it's the standard NBL fan of "american been here a few years, OBVIOUSLY he wants to naturalise!" guff...

I'm not anti-Randle by any means, but if Bogues is locked in next season, I just don't think it was a good fit this season... was that just down to Gaze and him being so shit? Is Randle too hero-bally? When he had 5+ assists, the Kings seemed like they were much more dominant, but like anon said above, can you blame him for taking things on his own shoulders at times when you had Gaze's gameplan to go off?

A shame that both Naar and Grida are locked up for the Hawks, two very good young talents... Being able to lock up that top quality young talent that is NBL top shelf but not really NBA material and a danger of leaving after a season or two, is really key... A year too late to get Norto and Kay as they would have been perfect, Kay especially... Having a big that can shoot from distance but isn't afraid to get their hands dirty down low is exactly what the Kings need...

I'd like to see Pineau and Deng try to step up their game in the off season, not just coast... Maybe try a tougher league and really push their skills and show that they're capable of stepping up as Pineau took a step back after a very handy previous season, but that was due to Gaze and being behind the two tits on a bull PFs as well, so a solid off season might raise his stock a bit more... I'm sure Deng is eager to actually get some game time as well...

If the Kings can manage to keep Newls and Lisch, I think the potential could be:

Import PG | ???
Lisch | Wilson
Patterson-style Import? | Newls
Kay-style player | Deng
Bogut | ???

That's a lot of gaps and being able to find locals to fill them is the tough part... Finding a quality Aussie big that doesn't have legit NBA aspirations is tough... Being good enough to get that quality gig after the NBL season but not quite good enough to get a full season gig level but also not have them be happy with being a big fish in a small pond and coast *cough*Ogilvy a few seasons ago*cough*.

I wish they'd have kept Maric on board this season as Bogut back up, I think things could have been very different if they'd have had only one of Kickert/Wear and Truck instead...

With a different coach, would Humphries come back? I wonder what his top level interest was after playing in the G League? Is it in his better interest to stay over there like Creek to potentially get a 10 day contract, or is that so far off the mark (most likely i would assume) that it would be better for him to get more exposure playing alongside Bogut and under a better coach, actually playing WELL and putting up good numbers? Is he too big/not mobile enough to start him at the 4 with Bogues and rotate a third big through and give them more time to rest Bogues but not lose as much defensively? Even bringing in a Turner then would be ok...

I think Randle is gone.

He has never lasted more than 2 years anywhere and I don't think this time will be any different.

Bevo's Hawkings veterans

Bogut/Andersen
Wear/Kickert
Import (Patterson?)/Coenraad
Lisch/White/Wilson
Jackson/Adnam

I reckon Bevo could make Wear seem a decent contributor

Nevill is at least still playing professionally

What about Cam Tragardh. Sydneysiders would consider his MG a status symbol, unlike those country bumpkins up in Cairns

Matt Burston?
Ian Crosswhite for a comeback?

Tongue in cheek maybe, but some of these guys might actually be better than Dane the stand up comedian

Mike Dunigan!

Schenscher?
Nevill?

You guys are aiming way too low.

May I present Ben Allen?

Some of the other five men selections have to be tongue in cheek because they are woeful.

pretty much ever team has a possible naturalise player


DJ Newbill just because
Ray Turner has played most of his life in a Australia
Bryce Cotton would be great for the boomers
Casper Ware would be great for the boomers
Jeremy Kendle played in Australia 4 years
Brian Conklin kid born in Queensland
Jacob Wiley young family loves Australia

My Kings team

Coach Bevo

Bogut
Eric Jacobsen/Brian Conklin (assuming it has to be a not big $$$ import, want someone with some hustle and toughness)
Lamar Patterson
Kevin Lisch
Rotnei Clarke (for his 3pt shooting, think of the open looks he could get)

Weeks or as close to him as possible
Newley
Best pf/c they can get (Venky Jois??), if stuck with Kickert this is probably his spot

Thats my 8 man rotation, the rest can be guys like Adnam, Wilson, Ray Turner if naturalised, Pinau types who are not going to get big minutes and on cheap contracts.

Bevo said he’d never let a ball dominant player like Conger take over a team he’s coaches again. Moller has an option and dominated seabl in the four, won the rebound count with over twelve per game, plays defence, not things the kings management look for. Grida is contracted to the hawks, Turner as not an import could be ok, but struggles with fouls. Kickett should be moved on but can’t see him going or anyone else take him. Some of the other five men selections have to be tongue in cheek because they are woeful.

Pineau was crap, don’t make me laugh man!!

Ding ding! Schenscher! This guy is dope!

Wod swat any crap around the rim and roll hard all day, all day. Opposition teams fear the Schensch coming back into the league and dominating their sorry asses in the paint, take that as read.

Or start with that team and then de activate someone and find an actual 3rd import late in the season depending on needs

Where's Khazzouh these days? Retired due to injury?

Conger another option since he did well under Bevo

Bogut/Khazzouh
Kickert/Deng/Turner
Conger/Grida
Lisch/Wilson
Trimble/Adnam


You've still got that issue with the slow
, unathletic frontcourt.

The difference is Bevo would give Deng plenty of opportunity and would mix lineups, slipping Conger to the 4 with small ball etc

Is Grida signed with Hawks?

is that the future of Australian basketball Naturalize

Bogut/Nevill/Turner
Kennedy/Deng
Newley/Moller
Lisch/Wilson
Trimble/Adnam

Bevo could take that team to a title. It's actually a realistic team too.

Moller has an option I heard? Or is it a team option?

Kennedy could be coaxed for $ I'm sure and would fit well with Bevo.

Turner to naturalize and take 3rd import cash

I forgot Kickert is signed. Can they get rid of him somehow?

""surely no kings fan should want even less backup for bogut then they had this season"

which was what exactly?"

Turner obviously.

"surely no kings fan should want even less backup for bogut then they had this season"

which was what exactly?

We're stuck with Kickert for now, and I'd rather have him coming off the bench, and sign a genuine PF import. Like I said, somebody in the Wesley/Vukona/Conklin mold. That's going to give Bogut more support straight out the gate.

Then ideally look to upgrade Ding Dong and Pineau. If Turner naturalises and is cheap, then sign him as one of those upgrades.

Schenscher is done, Nevill is done in this league.
Somebody like Vandenberg or even Humphries would be good, but keep in mind that they have to come cheap to fit the 5 man cap.

As for Randle, its not his fault that Gaze is a freakin moron and kept running with a midget backcourt. Its not his job to defend the 2/3.
That's also why I prefer to see what Wilson can do instead of Adnam, and why I also want a guard as the Next Star. Also keep in mind that if Randle goes down, Lisch can run point and Newley can play the SG.
I know Randle was guilty of a lot of hero ball, but what the hell else was he supposed to do with Gaze's pathetic offense.

I would love to see Nevill and Jordan Vanderberg back

The Kings could do worse than lure Luke Schenscher out of semi-retirement or coax Luke Nevill back from Taiwan.

Yeah, Ellis didn't rebound either. Good scorer, but not what the Kings need. Ideally the import 4 can cover the 5 spot when Bogut is on the bench. Not ideal, but with Kickert signed I'm not sure what better option than is than a naturalized Turner, unless there is some decent Aussie 5 man graduating college this season.

Ellis was to small for PF and not mobile enough for SF, ordinary defender. He’s not the answer.

Ellis was a quality player. Versatile too. Put him in a team like the current one where he isn't forced to be the man I think he would be a great addition.

Perry Ellis

Find a way to ditch Kickert. Delivers zero when it matters. Softest PF in history

was it josh powell

Who was the PF the Kings had 2 seasons back? Looked like Carlos Boozer and filled in decently at C, but was more suited to PF. Should never have let him go.

surely no kings fan should want even less backup for bogut then they had this season. dude ain't getting any younger and neither is kickert. even kickert in his prime was not a serious option as a backup 5. that would be big step backwards.

Coach: Happy for Bevo. Would be ecstatic for Goorj, but doubt it. Shawn Dennis is another guy I like, and I think it would be interesting to see what he could do with an NBL team that has some $$$ behind it.

Adnam is a FA, but I'm fine with him coming off the bench. Gaze threw out the Randle-Adnam lineup way too often which is a complete defensive liability, but otherwise he is fine in spot minutes off the bench.

I'd prefer to let Randle walk and sign a guy over 6'0 who can defend both backcourt positions. Doesn't need to be an electric scorer, I'd happily skim some off the top of Randle's scoring ability to put on defense instead. Happy for Lisch to return if the $$$ is right. Still a quality defender, and I think a better coach can get more scoring production out of him, as he never seemed to fit Gaze's simple system.

Newley also if the $$$ is right off the bench, and Deng is signed for next year I believe. Also keen to see what a better coach can get out of him. We need an athletic scorer at this position - a guy in the Patterson mould.

Need an import PF who is mobile and can rebound. This was Sydney's Achilles heel from preseason to postseason. Kickert also has a year left and hopefully a little more left in the tank than he showed for much of 18/19. Pineau is fine as an end of the bench guy if need be. If Ray Turner is naturalizing, I'm all for bringing him back as a local.

I'd like to see:

PG: Import / Adnam
SG: Lisch / Newley
SF: Import / Deng
PF: Import / Kickert / Deng
C: Bogut / Kickert