Hoops

GF Series Game 4 Mar 17

D2.0
You got the match ups wrong.
Jarvis-Smith Milner
Steindl-Moller
Hire-Hooley
Vague-Jois.

#831
Hard to tell how good the Melbourne bench was as so many close games Vickerman only played 7, to the detriment of the team in the end. Hooley, Moller Trist, Smith-Milner got minutes here and there, vey hard to play like that. Gleeson gave his rotation guys time and even started Vague through there slump, other coaches as well Wright, Bevo etc get there bench on. Experience wise the Perth bench was far better as well but you got play them for experience. Don’t get me started on the Jois debacle.

As for Moller, fans need to remember that he once played for the Fremantle Muppets, and as such he is forever tainted in the eye of most West Australians.

"Could only laugh at the talk of Melbourne's depth They had one of the skinniest benches in the league by design, having spent big on the first seven who were a very talented group "

I guess there's depth, and then there's depth

With 11 man rosters (plus DPs) and 40 minute games, you don't need a lot of minutes from the end of your bench Although some of the poorer teams struggles to put 4 stars on the floor, most coaches prefer a strong rotation of 6~7, maybe 8 tops

In the case of these two teams, I think comparing their top 7 is fair:

Martin Ware
Cotton McCarron
White Kennedy
Kay Barlowe
Brandt Boone
Norton Goulding
Wagstaff Pledger

Different blends, but I'd say that on the whole they compare favourably I'd give a clear offensive edge (on an average day) to Melbourne

Now if we look at the full depth:

Jervis Moller
Steindl Hooley
Hire Smith-Milner
Vague Jois

I think we can see that Gleeson being able to get quality minutes from the end of his bench was a clear advantage

RJD, As Moller gets more game time and more experience of course he's going to improve and I would expect that, natural progression of a young player. Do I think he'll ever be a "great" player? No I don't, I think he will struggle to be legitimate starter, unless he ends up at a smaller market team, the Kings and United's are always going to pay up, especially for players in his position. Using Wildcats as a comparison, I see him fitting somewhere between Hire and Wagstaff, but peak Wagstaff would be his absolute ceiling IMO.

"Last week when I suggested Perth had superior depth to United, I was told I was "reverse woofing"

Could only laugh at the talk of Melbourne's depth. They had one of the skinniest benches in the league by design, having spent big on the first seven who were a very talented group.

"A season average of 42% is what's proving he is going to be good?!?"

Actually, he shot 44% from the field including 33% from 3 and over 50% from 2pt range during the regular season. That's respectable, especially for someone relatively new to basketball. It was his loss of form in the playoffs, with 29% from the field and 13% from 3, that pulled the FG% down to 42%. Even including this playoff slump, his FG%, 3pt% and FT% were +6, +4 and +7 from the season before. It would've been +8, +9 and +9 if we assessed him before the playoffs began. You don't see that as a promising level of improvement, at least with respect to his shooting?

Ware, Kennedy, Goulding 10 of 36.
COTTON, WHITE 17 of 35.
Series over.

Ok, I'm done with responding to anons.

Ok I’ll go with your superior knowledge, but just mention your man Vague shot at 31%. Anyway I’m done enjoy the championship and Kay was your season mvp imo.

A season average of 42% is what's proving he is going to be good?!? Those "fact" percentages are a terrible comparison as Ware and Goulding are taking a lot more shots and are taking tougher shots due to the person defending them.

The "eye" test has been used for decades and that's always going to be good enough to make a judgement right or wrong. You can't predict a players future based on FG % for 1 season...

Goulding season average was 39%, Ware 40% Moller 42%. There’s a long way to go judging a player who has really only been playing three seasons, played in two GF winning one and won one seabl GF also played for boomers. Time will tel how it all pans out but and criticisms are fine built around actual fact.

Just for the record, I don't have any problem with people making predictions. Even when it is negative predictions, it's all good if people are willing to put their name (or username) on the line. That goes for Homicide too. He says some silly stuff, but a) it sucks a lot of people in to engaging about the NBL; b) he is fine with admitting when he is wrong, and c) I don't feel like his comments come from a nasty place (his Cadee post being an exception - and one he retracted and apologised for). To me that's what separates him from say Shane Heal, whose comments are regularly tainted by nastiness, and who is willing to dish it out but unable to cop it back.

As much as I hope Senator is wrong and hope that every young aussie player in the league goes on to be much better, it's not like I think they all will. As much as I like Moller, I also liked every time he put up a jump shot in the finals. I haven't studied Hooley's game long enough to have an opinion about his ceiling.

I'll go a bit easier on my comments...I realise the hate we have copped over here in WA first from AFL media then by NBL media prior to winning both has compounded and caused me to vent hate back. We cop a lot of shit over here, unwarranted, media bias is ruthless, it does feel good when you get them to shut up.

Anyway, congrats wildcats, bad luck United. Bring on AFL 2019 and then back for NBL 2019/2020.

Sport in Australia is the big winner!

Hopefully Senator11 ends up with egg on his face like Senator19 did.

It's my opinion and I'll stand by it wrong or right, under my name and not some anon account because you're too scared to back your own opinion.

Vague will have a better and more successful career than both too, how do like them apples?

Eagles win at the MCG, 6 months later Wildcats win in Melbroune...safe to say the West owns Victoria.

Haters going to hate, especially the ones that have done nothing. In 5 years senator 11 your name will be gone to some other stupid name because of all the crap you talk it will be an embarrassment. Have a nice day. ::))

Moller to me looks a lot like a young Tommy Greer, but with a bit more potential

Greer ended up captaining the Tigers and started for a couple of seasons. Moller could do the same or better.

Feel free to quote me in 5 years time, Moller and Hooley will amount to nothing in the NBL, if they ever get a starting gig it would be worse than Cadee starting. Screenshot this and get back to me...

Fair call.

Like you say, Barlow did tire at times- eg: During the Sydney series and game 1 in Perth he didn't contribute much. Moller could play the 4 a bit.

I don't think Moller's ready to be a starter but I was hoping he'd get a few more minutes than last season. Unfortunately, didn't happen. He's 24 and has only been back playing basketball for 3 years. There's still time.

LV
Moller job for Melbourne wasn’t to be offensive weapon, it was to take boards and play D, very hard to be offensive when you are playing in short stints and averaging about ten minutes a game, he averaged over 23 points a game in the seabl championship team and over 12 boards. You don’t do that in the United team where offence is run for Ware and Goulding. He should’ve been put on White to slow him down, go back to game three and watch the one on ones between White and Moller and you will see what I mean. McCarron and Kennedy took all his time which probably can’t be argued about but they were over strong in that position. He should’ve played the four spot behind Barlow, who got over used and tired as season went on imo.

Deserving* big minutes

Moller is too limited offensively right now, and needs to improve before deciding big minutes

Depends on teammates though. Last season had Wesley at the 4 and 2018 Boone. Then Casper and CG. Moller could fit in and his lack of offense wasn't an issue

You got play before you can be condemned, Moller last season was fantastic, Hooley was good to. Melbourne could have used someone who could play D and rebound today, he had 2/3 minutes today and in that time Melbourne turned it over twice playing iso ball, hard to show much in that time when all you are doing is chasing on D.

Last week when I suggested Perth had superior depth to United, I was told I was "reverse woofing"

Now Perth fans are allowed to say it

Norton, Steindl and Jervis were starters for other teams. They've started over 200 NBL games between them.

Wagstaff and Hire are veterans who've each played the last 6 years under Gleeson.

Of course, guys like Hooley and Moller could yet have careers like that. But the point is, right now they're still inexperienced and relatively unproven.

Hooley + Moller played less than 8% of uniteds bench minutes

Cats with a demolishing. I said it before and I'll say it again, you're going to struggle when Hooley and Moller eat up the majority of your bench minutes. Utter trash players.

Kennedy was meant to be the x factor.... He was for Perth. -29 today.

As somebody said above, Jervis probably saved his career with these last couple of games. Literally stood tall when it mattered. His ability to match Boone and Pledger was critically important.

Hire has been playing injured for a while now. I think it is the same calf that keeps getting strained. (Although somebody said it was the other one, so maybe both are dodgy)
I know he plays with a lot of pain which is why he's been on limited minutes, but once again stood up when it matters.
Dead-set legend.

Hire was +14 in less than 9 minutes of court time. I don't think that was a fluke, really changed the momentum when he first got on court. He's going to be massively missed by the Cats.

Good to see the team that played the more consistently cohesive brand of basketball win it all. Although this GF series needed a close game or a game 5 to redeem itself.

Obviously the refs stood up to Larry to make sure the Red Army could rub it in his face in Melbourne.

Counting down the seconds until the new conspiracy theory that LK was letting Perth win so that next year’s GF has more riding on it, to boost TV audiences.

Where is that idiot that posted LK was going to rig the series and Melbourne would win 3-1. He probably looking for the Easter bunny. :):):)

Just got home.
Gleeson so out coached Vickerman, Melbourne needed a defence player who could take boards and he put on Hooley, subbed Casper for Barlow, never mixed it trying to mark White, runs an offence for two players only, Goulding and Ware and at one stage had them on bench together. Some Melbourne big name players turn overs at crucial times all series didn’t help.
Perth are so team orientated, obviously Cotton and White were excellent, but Kay’s work on D and rebounding was so much better than anything Melbourne could throw at them, with good help from Brandt and Jervis.
Well done the the wildcats, so much better, and it shows backing Australian players with two good imports is better than three imports plus a system that stands up.

Not Perth’s fault that the competition was not up to their standard.

Best regular season followed by one of the worst playoffs - agreed.

AngusH, I agree with your summary but would add that Vickerman was also poor.

Perth didn’t see to have too much trouble scoring by playing as a TEAM, while Melbourne seemed to need to rely on hero ball and poor reffing too much to stay in it.

Just saw in Olgun Uluc article about the game that Kennedy had a -29
Kay was Cats best with +23

Melbourne should have done better in the second and third quarter exploiting perths early foul trouble. Credit to the cats bench players for playing their role to a tee and to white and cotton for finding the open man when they were doubled.

With the way this post season went, should've just crowned the top of the ladder at the end of the season, ala Football.

For Melbourne Ware was poor. Goulding was his usual self - hero threes and not a lot else. Boone looked old. Kennedy was poor today but I thought Melbourne just went away from him after he missed the two post up attempts. I think they should have kept with it. McCarron and Barlow the only real signs of life for Melbourne overall. A very mediocre finish, and a terrible showing in a finals series. Last year's finals series made this look like a Div 5 social comp final by comparison.

Obviously Perth's D and hustle is a big part of why Melbourne (game 2 aside) never took off, hats off to them - bounced back after the 2nd poorest stretch of the season by any team. But like I said above, let's never speak of this series again and just enjoy the lack of Hungry Jacks adverts for the next couple of months.

As I said, over the season.
Did his best in the GF, but was well held, which is one of the reasons we won.
NB: Without the injury, I think Cotton is better.

Maybe Matty Neilsen can finally get some shut eye now. Man looks like he hasn't slept for a whole month

Casper is top quality, no doubt, and he did a pretty good job of slowing Cotton down. But he clearly paid for it at the other end, and overall Cotton was still an effective player offensively even though his points were down.

I have to admit we were the best team. White made the haters eat their words and will go down in Cats folklore. Trev proved he is a great motivator and leader YET AGAIN. This team has championship DNA.

Casper who?
Melbourne were terrible.
Cotton and White outstanding.
One of the worst GF seasons I have seen in 30+ years of watching them.

"
Watching this series has confirmed for me that the best player in the league, over the whole season, was hands down Casper Ware."

26% 20% 25%, wares Fg% the last 3 games. Yeh he really stepped up

Empty congratulations from LV.

Well done.

Well done Perth- the better team.

Brought their A game this whole series except game 2.

casper "where?"