Hoops

2019 Boomers WC Squad Named

Given that the way to the final is largely through beating Euro teams, we should pick players who will excel at the Euro style. No point picking players for playing the US style when other teams play a different style of game.

I can see that guys like Simmons and Maker might have trouble against Euro teams. Guys who do well in Euro games like Cooks and Landale might be more useful than guys like Sobey or Adel.

Simmons, Mills, Dellavedova, Bolden, Bogut, Baynes, Ingles would be 7 NBA locks.
Creek and Adel will be fighting it out with the others for a spot.
Cooks must be a chance too or why would they include him.

Let's talk about Sobey for a moment, so he has a well documented fiery temperament, will that get him selected for the World Cup or keep him out of the team?

I think that is my main image I get when I think of Sobey, could his Shane Heal type determination and fire in the belly help turn a game?

Martin was brought in as a role-player, a defensive specialist to harass opposition guards. That's a great option to have, but has limited use because he has to play both ways. Still, he did the job when called on.
Keep in mind also that he was coming off a finals MVP performance.
He's undoubtedly slowed in the last few years.
Not sure if there would be anybody to replace him.

Lisch was our token naturalised American. In the past we've taken some advantage from that rule in that way, but it's probably past its sell-by date. The best NBL players are nolonger better than the best Aussies (who are playing in the NBA and Europe) and there are far fewer naturalised players in the NBL. Going forward its more likely going to be used by a top "Aussie", who fails the FIBA nationality test. (Not sure if Maker fits that bill? But somebody in the same circumstance as say Moneke probably would.)

At the time Bairstow was picked for Rio, he was "playing" in the NBA, and obviously that was before his run of injuries.

Goulding has been a great player for Australia, internationally, and for Melbourne. His ability to turn a game when hot was phenomenal. I'd almost be prepared to take a gamble on him, in the hopes he could suddenly get hot off the bench at the right time (and/or the refs decided to reward flopping). But he has become too inconsistent, and would be a defensive liability.
Not sure why you would even name Goulding, Gliddon, and McCarron in the same squad. Perhaps it has something to do with training set-ups??
Gliddon will get the nod.

Sobey must be odds on to be picked, as his reward for signing with Brisbane.

Would be great to see Landale get some experience, but he will benefit from just being in the squad hopefully, and it would be a tough call to drop Bogut or Baynes at this time.
(Although you would have to expect this may be their last chance for a medal.)

Tough call between Motum and Kay. In my personal opinion, based on recent form, Kay should get the nod, but I think Motum's relationship with Lemanis (and his Brisbane connection) will win out.

Mitch Creek's stats are from a small sample of games and minutes played.
No doubt he has improved dramatically in the past 12 months but he is a fringe boomer at best and had Broekhoff been available Creek would be struggling even more to make final team.
I'm not from Adelaide so maybe I just don't rate Creek as highly.

Just being an NBA player doesn't guarantee you a spot.
Humphries, Creek and Adel all had minimal impact in the NBA.
Maker was no certainty to make final 12 either.
Motum, Landale, Cooks and the NBL guys are all worthy competition for final spots.
And yes I realise Humphries didn't make the squad.

I said Bairstow fell out of the rotation, but to be fair, that was because he was injured in the Venezuela game.

"Too many Nbl guys. "

In Rio we had Lisch, Goulding, Martin, Bairstow as NBL representatives. All but Goulding are no longer available. In Rio, only Lisch played a consistent 10-20 minutes; Goulding barely made it on outside of the games against minnows; Bairstow fell out of the rotation mid-tournament; Martin's minutes depended on the opposition.

It's reasonable to reward some who played in the qualifiers. Creek, Kay, Gliddon, Goulding, McCarron and Sobey are standouts from qualifiers and deserve an opportunity to make the team.

Outside the locks and the NBL players on the list, there is Adel, Motum and Landale. I suspect Adel might be competing against Creek for a spot. I wouldn't be surprised if Lemanis ends up choosing between either Kay or Landale as the 5th big. There are guard spots left which NBLers will need to occupy.

With the Sobey move to Brisbane he will probably get the nod....but,as a knockdown (momentum) shooter i'd take Goulding, even though neither of them seem to have matured as players (the issue that haunts them both) which brings Mcarron back into the picture...

The decision to be made is Sobey or Goulding, I don't think both can go.

Gliddon can fill a Ingles type roll, international height and length gets him in the team as long as he has no back problems...

Okay I've had a bit of a think about it and this is my team from that squad:

Delly/Sobey
Mills/Goulding
Ingles/Creek/Adel
Simmons/Bolden/Motum
Bogut/Baynes

Not sure how Gliddon even got into the squad to be honest despite being a Bullet he disappears completely in games too often you wouldn't even know he played and Motum more than makes up for the 3pt shooting he shot a great percentage that season with the 36ers.

Locks are Delly, Mills, Ingles, Simmons, Bolden, Baynes, Bogut. Creek is a borderline lock.

This leaves 4 spots. We need another 5-man if Bogut or Baynes are injured, so unless we play smallball with Bolden, or experiment with Simmons at the 5, Landale sweeps in. We need another 4 man, which should come down to Motum vs Kay. Motum has the Euroleague experience, but Kay continues to improve and continues to impress in a Boomers uniform. Let them battle it out in practice.

The other two guard spots will be tough, and it might come down to form between McCarron, Sobey, Gliddon, and Goulding. Another wing who can guard the 2/3 is justified. I'd go with Gliddon, who is the closest to a 3-and-D option off the bench. We have the point position covered with Simmons, Delly, and Mills, which is why I haven't labelled any backups at the 1, but if either Delly or especially Mills go down, we need some insurance. Mills put up 61 of the team's 178 threes in Rio, overall putting up nearly double the number of shots than anyone else, so if Mills goes down, another volume scorer would be useful. Notice the correlation in Rio between Mills's perimeter shot dropping and the team's performance (such as 4/9 and 5/11 vs France and Lithuania, and 1/9 versus Serbia in the semis). Goulding's D is subpar internationally, but if we need a scorer with range, willing to launch a high volume of shots, Goulding is the best insurance option.

1 Delly
2 Mills / Gliddon / Goulding
3 Ingles / Creek
4 Simmons / Bolden / Motum-vs-Kay
5 Baynes / Bogut / Landale

My concern with this lineup is we may not have enough defensive options to cover dynamic PGs, so we need one of Delly or Mills always on. This is where I see merit in paul's lineup with McCarron (otherwise, Sobey).

Compared with Rio:

2016
Delly
Mills
Ingles
Baynes
Bogut
[Motum]
Goulding

2019 - 2016:
Bolden - Andersen [stretch 4]
Gliddon - Broekhoff [3-and-d wing]
Kay - [Motum] [stretch 4]
Creek - Martin [defensive orientated glue guy]
Landale - Bairstow [5th big]
Simmons - Lisch [token American]

Landale is a traditional centre, has an array of post moves (read - great footwork), excellent mid-range range game, has range to beyond three-point arc and solid passer out of the post. Can finish through contact.

At 6'11, can't guard the perimeter.

Love his game. Has done so well in first pro season in Europe and is now getting paid to move to Lithuania and powerhouse Zalgiris Kaunas.

Can someone give us a breakdown of Landale's game? From what I can gather, he appears to have good range, a good rebounder, impressive stats in Eurocup, just 23, and mobile for 210cm. His strong desire to play for Australia is also a big plus, especially if he is likely to be a mainstay in future Boomers teams.

While food for thought provides a few opinions idiot anon #133 and #135 provides a few insults.

Dude.

Easy to say FFT has more credibility.

P.s. Lemanis is a spud.

You replied.. must have touched a nerve sorry! Maybe I should just call myself dumb food just to be cool

Food for thought has been a Johnny come lately self appointed expert. Dude you come across as a wanker. Just saying

Mcarron, Goulding and Sobey all on one team with similar size and skill sets is potentially a coaches nightmare. Mitch is the least risky and better defender, his denial D is effective and very tough!
I feel that none of the above fill that position internationally and it should be a 'roll the dice' spot for the future, we have so much tall young talent to blood....

Cooks should start at the 4. He is the most inform pf.

Some good points made throughout this thread. I think I was over-emphasising the way we need to adapt this team for Simmons. I can't see Lemanis wanting to change too much of his formula given his success in Rio, but Simmons' inclusion definitely warrants significant change. In Rio, we didn't bomb so much from outside, shot at just 33%, and were mid-pack in 3ptFG/g. Perhaps Simmons slashing might create more opportunities there.

Ingles on Simmons: “The next part is us adjusting and fitting him in, but also us fitting in with him.”

I was skipping through some of the Rio games to get some clues about Lemanis' preferences. This was the outcome of his choice to combine Bogut and Baynes, with Baynes at the 4, usually at the start of each half and some minutes late in the 4th. [not including the less significant games vs China and Venezuela]

vs France
Q1 +1 (6-5) 4:17
Q3 +7 (10-3) 3:51

vs Serbia
Q1 +2 (5-3) in 3:13
Q3 +3 (14-11) in 4:44
Q4 +9 (13-4) in 2:55

vs USA
Q1 +3 (20-17) in 5:46
Q3 -7 (2-9) in 3:32
Q4 -4 (6-10) in 3:42

vs Lithuania (QF)
Q1 +4 (10-6) in 4:00
Q3 -1 (7-8) in 2:31

vs Serbia (SF)
Q1 -9 (3-12) in 4:19
Q3 +3 (10-7) in 4:04

vs Spain (Bronze)
Q1 -3 (5-8) in 4:12
Q3 0 (5-5) in 2:06

As a comparison, Andersen at the 4 lineups went:
vs FRA +15 in 18m
vs SRB -10 in 21m
vs USA 0 in 18m
vs LTH +23 in 26m
vs SRB -11 in 16m
vs ESP +3 in 27m

And Motum lineups went:
vs FRA +3 in 1m
vs SRB [DNP]
vs USA -6 in 2m
vs LTH 0 in 4m
vs SRB -6 in 11m
vs ESP -2 in 16m

We need to find a solution to our 4 man problem. It looks like we will be relying on Bolden and Simmons, and/or Motum playing significantly better. Even if Lemanis plays Bogut and Baynes together, it is really only possible for about 8 minutes per game.

It was mentioned on hoops, actually haven’t seen it elsewhere.

PG
1 Dellavedova
2 Simmons
(Mills)

SG
3 Mills
4 Goulding or Sobey
(Ingles)

SF
5 Creek
6 Adel
7 Ingles
(Cooks)

PF
8 Cooks
9 Motum
10 Bolden
(Simmons)

C
11 Baynes
12 Bogut
(Bolden)

O watched a few euro league games and was surprised how much they were pushing the ball, I think most of the leagues are playing at a faster pace, it might be because clubs have a few American imports but think sides will play quickly if the chance is available.

McCarron got found out on terico White in the gf series, very good player but to short to m ark top quality threes. Cooks might just be the answer, though haven’t sheen much of him play and was a late inclusion.

@ Skull, absolutely agree with you there mate, the loss of Broekhoff is massive for the 3 spot and in naming my team it was the position I had the most trouble selecting.

Ideally you'd have Simmons play some 3 on defense as he is certainly agile enough to guard out to the 3 point line but it doesn't stop this from being our weakness, even if they do play McCarron at the 3 also.

I also do not see Bogut playing bulk minutes. He only played 29 mpg for Sydney and this tournament will be next level compared to that.

All those say Landale can play four have never seen him play, he’s a five man, it certainly opens the door for Kay, the three spot is also suspect though Creek should be a certainty and maybe Cooks will get in as he can cover the three and four.

I agree with you skull.

Proud...very soft at the 3 spot (both ends of the court)

Imagine being Jason Cadee. You were getting all these minutes that the rest of the country was saying you shouldn’t have been getting.

You got extra minutes playing for Brisbane that you shouldn’t have. All the time your coach giving you all this extra court time.

Post season, they recruit someone into your position and now your not only left out of the Boomers, you don’t even make the squad.

When are we going to pick Tamuri Wigness, Makur Maker and Josh Green for the senior national team ?

Anon 038 breath. It was a reply to food for thought suggesting Delly is going to be more consistent from 3 than Goulding. Delly has hardly played since moving to Cleveland. Other than ingles, Mills and Simmons our NBA guy play stuff all minutes. We better gel as a team otherwise we aren’t going far in this tournament. France, Canada etc have plenty of guys who play night in and night out in the NBA. We are relying on an ageing Bogut and a one trick pony in Baynes in the middle. We will need some luck.

Absolutely loving this thread so far, so many good points.

I'd put Baynes in the PF spot as I felt him and Bogut did work well together and from what I've seen from Bolden and his rim protection, he could back up Bogut.

I understand that Simmons is basically a 4 as well but when things aren't going well then Baynes and Bogut is an option I'd like to see Andrej try.

I'd have to have McCarron in my team, does a lot of things very well and is an elite rebounder for his size and can play 1-3 and as an 11 or 12th player on the team, I think you won't find anyone more versatile on this team.

Interesting that after such a great performance at 2016 Olympics, Lisch, Martin, Andersen, Bairstow didn't even get a look in this time around.

My team would be

Simmons/Delly/McCarron
Mills/Gliddon
Ingles/Creek/Blanchfield
Baynes/Motum
Bogut/Bolden

I chose Blanchfield because I hope that his shot is dropping and his form could not be denied, over Goulding, Adel, Sobey.

I'd like To have taken another big in Landale or Kay but Simmons alleviates that need.

Stop it people with quoting PPG to put value on a players worth to a team. There is other things required to win a game and not all shooters are able to do these things well enough. They can’t win if they can’t defend. Seriously sick of great shooters opening the door on the defensive end and dumbasses not realising some of those people lose a game for a team. Only when they are injured and a team miraculously wins without them do some think about it.

"I'd be taking Gliddon over Goulding. He's not as flashy but he is consistent."

That's partly why I'd take Goulding over him. It's probably going to be for the 12th spot on the team, and realistically they're unlikely to play much at all. As much as i dislike Goudling and think he can be really streaky, If the 12th man manages to get some court time I'd like to take a 'risk' on Goulding who can come out and have the swagger and confidence to let it fly and if he is hot it can be a game changer. If he's cold then meh just sub him out.

I think going in with only 4 genuine bigs plus Simmons is great, and definitely allows us to take some extra wings and guards who can give us different looks at different times.

I know Creek's lack of outside shot can be an issue, but I take him as he's shown when in talented line ups he's happy to do the little things to get the win. Even in Sumner league and g league. He's a great hustle and glue guy. Maybe he doesn't play at the same time as Simmons but I think he needs to be there.

Delly is averaging 5 ppg he ain’t saving us from the land of plenty anytime soon

I don't think anyone is saying Delly, Mills and Ingles are not reliable outside shooters. Although Ingles wasn't reliable in 2016, his NBA form has been impressive. The point is more that depth of shooting talent matters, especially if we want to get the most out of Simmons.

This is a list of players who shot at over 30% from 3 in Rio:
Delly
Mills
Broekhoff
Andersen
Lisch
[Bairstow - 1/2]

Broekhoff, Andersen, Lisch, Baistow are all out. We should expect Ingles to shoot better this time. Motum and Goulding should come in more confident with more experience, so hopefully they shoot at a better clip if they are selected. Baynes has developed a perimeter shot recently.

Cooks now in the 18... he's getting into the 12 right?

I agree about Broekhoff - a FIBA-level outside gunner's an asset to a team that can run an athletic, NBA offence.

Reality is you'll need 9 rotation guys - of which 8 surely name themselves, and the ninth is a wing. Probably best to have an extra two-way player, ideally to fill the 2/3 slots.. So Broekhoff. Maybe Dante - having neither sucks.

And then you add in the 3 specialists. Goulding and Creek surely fit 2 of the 3 specialist roles. Is the third specialist a defender?

"Everyone seems to be assuming Simmons as a point guard. Whilst I agree that he will play with the ball in his hands on offense, I feel Lemanis will consider Simmons in the squad as a big, freeing up another guard spot."

Seconded. We really need more shooters to play alongside Simmons. The withdrawal of Broekhoff is far, far more significant than losing Exum or Maker. With the balance of this team, I can't stress enough how massive losing Broekhoff really is. Creek and Adel are natural choices to replace a 3 man, but they don't come close to the role that Broekhoff would play. I think people forget how important he has been on this Boomers team. His sharpshooting has been outstanding and irreplaceable. Notice that we have also lost Andersen who was excellent as a stretch 4.

I'll surely be in the minority, but for me Simmons inclusion completely changes the shape of this team. Suddenly players like McCarron, Goulding, Sobey and Gliddon come into serious consideration, and I'm not talking about just one or two of them. I want to maximise shooters alongside Simmons. Simmons will already be more cramped in international play, especially if the floor isn't spread with shooters. This makes it awkward selecting Creek and Adel because it makes it difficult to play alongside Simmons. I'd seriously consider players like Gliddon, Sobey and McCarron stealing Creek's wing spot.

1 Delly / '9'
2 Mills / '10' / '11'
3 Ingles / '12'
4 Simmons / Bolden / Motum
5 Baynes / Bogut

I'd be open to completely omitting Creek and Adel due to their weakness shooting from range. I would be fine with McCarron, Goulding, Sobey and Gliddon taking up these final 4 spots.

As much as Goulding's defense is subpar for internationals, he has the experience and the confidence in major tournaments, and checks the obvious shooter box. I would want to see who is in shooting form leading up to the WC and how much Creek and Adel can add value given the balance of the team.

It will be interesting to see if, as in 2016, Lemanis plays Baynes and Bogut together for a few minutes to start each half, then use other 4s with a tandem of Bogut and Baynes at centre. But would a lineup with Simmons alongside Baynes and Bogut work?

1 Simmons / Mills
2 Delly /
3 Ingles /
4 Baynes / Bolden / Motum
5 Bogut

^Re Cram's post^

Big difference in shooting ability with the guys in the 3 spot...

It’s alright to call Goulding a bench player, but he still plays 30 plus minutes a game, at present Sobey in the French top division is a real bench player averaging arm 5 minutes a game.
It’s good to aim for a medal and got robbed at last Olympics but I warn caution if other nations turn up with full strength squads, there is a lot less space in and around the key area when full zones are played. Great to have our nba guys as well but some of those are bench minutes guys as well, where the USA will turn up with 12 of the best all near the quality of Simons and even a few better.

^^^ Humphries not good enough.

Cooks apparently added to the squad.

Most people seem to agree on 9 of the names

Simmons/Delly
Mills/
Ingles/Creek
Bolden/Motum
Baynes/Bogut

The last three spots are really up for grabs and I think I can be talked into any of the remaining squad apart from Blanchfield being in.

what nbl players haven't played for the boomers not counting DP players

Simmons/Dellavedova
Mills/Sobey
Ingles/Creek/Adel
Bolden/Motum
Baynes/Bogut/Landale

Cooks is missing...

Adel stats in the nba fog 330.6 3pt 20.1 hardly outstanding. No way he plays ahead Creek, Adel also very individual. Waiting to see the final cut.