Hoops

World Cup: Boomers vs. France

^^^^^^
Yes that was a very nice gesture, not massive amount but still highly good considering he’s not a top shelf earner.

IMO you just don't turn down a spot due to perceived lack of opportunity. Even if you're out of the rotation and sitting on your bum for 9 days straight you never know when foul trouble, an injury, or a specific match-up is going to get your number called.
Maybe that wasn't his reasoning anyway ... I don't know, so I'm not going to hold it against him. But I do think that had he been there in place of Barlow, he likely would have hit the court at some stage by now.
Hopefully he puts himself back in the mix for Tokyo.

But he's shown plenty of potential and it's obvious he's stronger and more athletic than Landale.

I don't think he came into the camp game fit which is why Landale jumped him.

Either way PF is our weakest position atm we can't be turning away guys.

If Bolden was behind Kay I 100% understand his reason for leaving.

He wouldn't be getting any game time and hence might not have got a shot to fight for minutes.(unless there was an injury)

If he was just behind Landale and was going to get the back up minutes. Then it's disappointing because he really could've fought for those minutes. Bogut & Landale have been disappointing. But securing his life in the NBA is probably his number 1 priority and I accept that.

Bolden is in the NBA for his potential but he has shown enough sparks that should keep him in the NBA. He got playoff minutes last season and while he is expected to take a step back in the pecking order this year(due to new signings). Last year he showed he cam fight for those minutes and jump up the pecking order.

Don't get me wrong if he doesn't keep improving he could be out of the NBA(look at Anthony Randolph)

We also don't know when Bolden made the decision to withdraw or when he informed Lemanis. Remember, he only played in the two Canada games, each game without either Bogut or Baynes. This meant that we needed someone to take some minutes at the 5. With Landale impressing enough to take the starting 4 spot, and Kay not suitable at the 5, Bolden might've taken those backup 5-man minutes by default. So we don't know if Bolden's actual intended role was as a 3rd string 5, or whether intended to use him to consolidate the 4-man rotation. Remember, in Rio we had a 3 player 4-man rotation of Andersen, Motum and Bairstow, before Bairstow was injured mid-tournament.

Cotton is way too small to play physical international bball

He is 23 years old. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with being a bench warmer of a senior national team, especially when a heap of the other members don't have a lot of years left in them.
Even playing zero minutes in a whole tournament, I don't see why the gaining of experience with an amazing team would ever be thought of as a negative thing. Most players with ambition to be better would jump at that opportunity.

Bolden +/- was horrible, no point being an nba player that can’t play in a team structure that when you are on the defence goes to shit. Bolden also only plays very little in the nba unless there is injuries, he’s a bench warmer at present in the nba and Australia if he’d hung around.

100% Luuuc.

Tells us that Bolden could outcast himself if his attitude doesn't get to the high standards of Bogut/Delly/Mills/Ingles/Baynes.

I pretty much agree. And as for "protecting his brand", I really don't see how his brand or his value would have been diminished by being a bench player behind a group of NBA vets who pushed their country into the quarter finals of the world cup. International basketball is not typically defined by a bunch of young kids with potential putting on a talent show trying to impress pro teams.
Oops.
Bolden with a Boomers attitude would have been a handy player to have in the 12.

At this stage, Gliddon, Sobey and Barlow appear to be insurance picks to cover injury. Lemanis has gone with a reduced rotation compared with Rio. It's not unusual for coaches to go with less players in the rotation for chemistry reasons. There's no compulsion to go 12 deep. Hopefully our guys have enough energy in the tank, playing their 6th game in 11 days. By the way, Czechia have used a similar depth in main rotation.

Tell us more Dave.

*rjd

excellent point, red

I agree with all those concerns, hoopie. I suppose I'm thinking about the next generation. We have a lot of young talent that have never played together. Not even much on junior teams. And given the NBA scheduling, they may not play together until 2023. Australia has always previously had the advantage of chemistry.

hoopie 100% correct,

just because you hang around the nba and don’t play doesn’t make you an nba player as much as the media tell us. Some of the players mentioned have achieved nothing yet some of the logic around here is that they should displace players that have proven their up to it. I’ll take Creek, Landale, Kay ahead of most them.

Something else that Lemanis looks like he has achieved. Something that it's quite difficult to do.

He appears to have set a tone where he isn't pandering or making unreasonable allowances to players based on their reputation.

If you want in and are good enough.... Fine.

If you not fully committed AL will go with someone who is.

rjd, I'd label all 6 of your names as 'exciting but unproven', even Exum as he comes back from injury.
In other words, taking any of them will involve a risk that they cannot (or will not) adjust to the system, or cannot handle the pressure.

In the case of Maker and Bolden, I'd even add that they may not have the right body type or level of experience for their role. Neither would be strong or heavy enough to handle the Euro bigs, and nobody (!) would be good enough to handle athletic bigs such as Durant or Giannis.
There's also a risk that they depend on their athleticism and leap too much in defence rather than just playing smart - I could see someone like Maker getting faked into the air looking for a block, and then watching his player go past him for the basket or under him for the foul.

I'd be cautious about trying to take advantage of Simmons' flexibility, as well: if we expect him to play any of 4 positions, then won't he need to learn the system from 4 different points of view? That's asking a lot of ANYONE, no matter how skilled or exciting he is. And then there's the elephant in the room - wherever he plays, if he cannot hit outside shot reliably then others have to pick up his slack, or plays have to be designed for when he's on the court versus when he's off.


As Andre has done, let's choose horses for courses rather than just go by the fact that someone plays NBA, which usually involves iso play and flashiness over hard-nosed grind-it-out teamwork, and typically playing a limited role in a very tight team system which may be very different from Andre's.

As usual, paul delivers the goods. Unfortunately, if it pans out that way, Dave/Makur will be spamming this forum with his objections for another year.

What intrigues me about the new blood in the team is the versatility of the players. Cooks, Simmons, Exum, Maker, Bolden, Adel have a defensive versatility that might allow switching on all picks. Elite NBA teams seem to prefer that kind of defense; how effective will it be in international FIBA?

Had some trouble getting to sleep last night - I'm thinking the 11pm (AEST) tip off Wednesday is gonna be another poor night sleep either way.

And its a good example of what I was saying where it might look out of balanced - only 4 nominal backcourt players - but with Ingles and Simmons both able to handle the ball it provides so many options.

That would be a good team Paul.

Exactly, you can throw as many names out there you like, the nba, euro, and nbl haven’t even started yet. Let’s see how it all pans out, Exum hasn’t hardly got on the court since he’s been in the nba for a start. Some off the other names there have got great media profiles but not done a lot. Lemanis and his coaching team will pick guys they want and can play roles around the superstars.

Locks:

Mills
Ingles
Baynes
Delly

If those guys are reasonably healthy, rest assured they'll be in Tokyo.

The rest can wait- it's 12 months away! Who knows how Bogut's body will hold up? Who knows how many times Simmons will to and fro and change his mind about playing?

With those 4 guys and a capable support crew of role players, Boomers are well placed for Rio.

I don't know why people are so intent on locking in a 12 man line up a year out from a tournament, especially when we didn't have this one until days beforehand.

I think a squad of the following would be a great start

G Simmons/Delly/Exum
G Mills / Goulding / Cotton
F Ingles / Broekhoff / Creek / Cooks / Adel
F Landale / Kay / Motum / Bolden / Maker
C Baynes / Bogut / Humphries

That's 19 guys who I'd say, if healthy and available, all have a decent crack at making the side. There's a bunch of guys (Cooks, Simmons, Exum, Ingles) who can play multiple positions/roles, meaning balance of the 12 could end up looking funny but actually be fine - IE Simmons playing the 4 defensively

Other guys who could sneak into the squad if they have big years or we have a bunch of outs are guys like:
McDowell-White
Sobey
Gliddon
Bairstow

I'd still recommend

Starters------Rotation-------Emergencies
Simmons-------Delladova------Exum
Mills---------Broekhoff
Ingles-----------------------Cooks
Bolden--------Landale
Baynes--------Maker----------Bogut

Obviously
Green Adel Goulding Creek all pushing for a spot.

(Also open to moving Simmons to PF) (But I think if he's your PG you keep him at PG for the tournament. Don't shuffle around your best player too much)

Anon

Even with your changes which are questionable

Starters. Rotation. Subs
Simmons Delladova Exum
Mills. ------ Cotton
Ingles Broekhoff Cooks
Landale Maker
Baynes Bogut

You can see there is a lack of depth at the big position to deal with injuries or a tweak where a player misses a game

Anon

Even with your changes which are questionable

Starters. Rotation. Subs
Simmons Delladova Exum
Mills Cotton
Ingles Broekhoff Cooks
Landale Maker
Baynes Bogut

You can see there is a lack of depth at the big position to deal with injuries or a tweak where a player misses a game

Maker in same boat as Bolden, battling to keep his nba career going. Will he be available or is he that good?

ME
I think there is a consensus that Lemanis choose too many Guards

Ie Creek coming in and going straight into the rotation.

Your team depth chart looks like this

Simmons Delladova Exum Cotton
Mills Broekhoff
Ingles Cooks
Landale
Baynes Bogut Maker

Our initial rotation looked like this
Delladova Sobey
Mills Goulding Gliddon
Ingles Cooks
Landale Bolden Kay
Baynes Bogut

For a supposedly smart player and good defender why is bogut fouling out every game?

ME

Your team has too many Guards

It's not very balanced

ME

"They've consistently shot similar to this. They shoot the most three point shots of any remaining team by far, and they're doing so around 40 percent."

Australia shot (13/27 or 48.1%)

They average 40.8% for the world cup a stat that's bumped up by the last game (38.8% before this game)

If they shot at their regular % they go 10 or 11 from those 27 and we lose that game.

Admittedly I thought we shot at a higher percentage but that was a shoot out for the ages. Felt like nothing could miss.

Creek had an outstanding game, no question. Doesn't make him the Messiah, but you can't deny it was a great game.

We won a close game, and there will always be an element of luck in that, but we'll take it.

How many times in your life, will you see Aron Baynes get put on his arse 3 times, and each time come up with the Charge?

Will laugh till I piss if France now beats the USA. LOL

Also those going on about NBA isn't that good.

Comeon.

We closed the game with this lineup

Baynes
Creek
Ingles
Delladova
Mills

5 guys who played in the NBA last year. While the only other NBA player Bogut fouled out.

NBA players are going to be the core of our team. But there is not much difference between a borderline in the NBA player (Bolden Adel Creek) and a borderline outside the NBA player (Landale Cooks Goulding) The difference there comes down to how committed you are to play in the NBA (will you do it for less money and less playing time) and the opinion of one general manager to another.

Any player in an NBA rotation is going to make the 12 next year.

One thing that I don't think has been made enough of is Ingles' defense of Fournier late in the game... the guy couldn't hit after that.

Just to add to the discussion... I'd be keen to see Creek back in the Olympics side... he's played a great role. Also happy to see the guys toward the end of the bench subbed out for Exum, Simmons, Broekhoff & Cooks.

I'm pretty indifferent on Bolden... I think his response to playing time in Perth is a genuine character flaw. The Rights to Ricky Sanchez guys are pretty down on Bolden because of poor decision making and missed defensive assignments because of low Basketball IQ. As much as he is tallented, he's just as likely to do something dumb at the Olympics... as a Sixers & Boomers fan... I genuinely hope that he matures and fulfils his potential over this NBA season.

Last night was the greatest Boomers game I've seen in my lifetime... great work team & great work coaching staff.

Watching timeouts, you can see that this coaching group has been assembled in what seems to be a fairly flat structure and there looks to be consistent buy-in. With the players too.

What a massive, massive, massive win. A historic victory for Aussie basketball.

Both teams shot the lights out. A high quality game.

Patty was sublime, Baynes was inspirational, Ingles keeps doing whatever it is that the team needs- last night it was scoring, and Creek’s hustle, D and team game was invaluable. The whole team should be proud of this achievement- Lemanis has them well drilled, and they’re bringing some good form at the right time. But the best is yet to come- I hope.

After a St Kilda premiership, seeing the Boomers medal at a major tourney is second on my sporting dreams list. Keep on keeping on boys, it’s almost within your grasp.

Was watching it live at the time and Gaze classically was lost for words stopping mid-sentence when the coverage panned in on her.

France need more NBL players

"AL already probably ranks as GOAT Boomers coach."

I'd been thinking the case for this statement looked pretty strong once the Boomers made it out of Round 1 with no losses. The subsequent results have strengthened the argument.

Given the way the team has performed in Rio and in this tournament, the coaching staff have to get a lot of the credit. They've picked the players, given them the system to work to and gotten the players to buy into it, even with backs to the wall in some tough games.

Also for next year.

From what I've noticed from the world cup is how important spacing is. I don't see Exum and Simmons being on the court together.

I think the team for next year will look like this

Mills
Simmons
Ingles
Bolden/Landale
Baynes

Delladova
Exum
Broekhoff
Green/Cooks/Creek/Adel
Landale/Bolden
Bogut
Maker

With PF being so weak there is an argument to start Simmons there too and going something like this

Mills
Broekhoff
Ingles
Simmons
Baynes

Delladova
Exum
Green/Cooks/Creek/Adel/Goulding
Green/Cooks/Creek/Adel/Goulding
Landale/Bolden
Bogut/Landale/Bolden
Maker/Landale/Bolden

Baynes Mills Ingles were the 3 we turned to, to get it done.

Delladova was solid.

We found Creek to go with them as well.

The rest didn't have great games. We were a bit lucky. Not sure we shoot like that ever again.

Would've liked another good defender on this team(Adel being the obvious choice)

Creek should've been in the team to begin with it's pretty obvious. His defence is going to be more and more important as this competition goes on.

Too bad Bolden didn't stay and fight for the starting PF role. I think he came into camp after an offseason and spent it trying to get fit. While Landale was fit and trying to prove himself at summer league.

As Bolden got fitter maybe he could've got the starting position. Plus got positive PR from it. It's really how you sell your position.

With players like Jokic and Bjelica coming off the bench. It's hardly insulting.

Great win last night. Patty and Baynes, just absolutely killed it. Ingles, Delly and Creek all did their bit. This team responds so well to a tough patch. It'd be nice if we could go a game without having to though!

My heart was definitely in my mouth when Patty stole the inbounds and then threw it back towards the French basket.

Had some trouble getting to sleep last night - I'm thinking the 11pm (AEST) tip off Wednesday is gonna be another poor night sleep either way.

This Boomers team seems to need a jolt each game. Not until we lose our (slim) leads do we really get into gear. The pattern, so far, has been to just keep our heads in front for 1st half. Lose that lead during late 3rd q, with some quite sloppy execution. Turnovers, rushed/missed shots, offensive confusion, fouls, then, extract our fingers and get the very close wins in the dying seconds. Seems that we create those extremes by either losing or re-gaining our focus. Our fate is in our own hands.

But honestly, in this one, le Blu really did fall apart. Gobert, in particular. (Giannis seemed to suffer the same fate in Greece's game.)

As the tournie gets deeper, the opposition gets better (obviously). But I suppose that we do too!

Where are my heart tabs?
**************************
By the way. Lots has been said that we are hiding some strategies and rolling them out as needed. I am not up with x's and 0's to recognise new strategies etc. Have we, in fact, added bits to our game?

Dang Boomers, epic performance! When Bogut fouled out and walk to the bench Baynes walked on nodding he head to Bogut and tapping his chest like, "I got this".

As a Lemanis hater, credit where credits due, he's done a sterling job with this game plan. Hopefully there are no choke scenarios coming up and we take care of the Czech and go for a medal.

Only thing I would've changed with this team is included Damien Martin, can't underestimate his leadership, experience and hustle. 5 minutes per game on lockdown roles would have been much more valuable than Sobey, Gliddon or Barlow warming the bench, but I understand everyone can't play solid minutes.

"Next year I suspect the old legs being a year older will be perfect time to turn Bogut, Baynes, Mills, Delly, Ingles into roleplayers as the new gen join the fray."

There is no time for that. Next year must be a continuation of this year, after all it's continuity that is making the Boomers so tough now. The time for the next generation to step in will be after 2020, and they will be driving the bus in 2023.

Oh and bye the way..... Sack the French coach.

Too enthralled in the game last night to post. Absolutely thrilled with another W but even more impressed by the way this group fight back from adversity each time.

Apart for the Baynes brain explosion against the DR (he's forgiven by the way) their composure and focus is admirable. That can also be said of the coaching staff. AL already probably ranks as GOAT Boomers coach.

Czech won’t be easy, the flip side to requiring resilience in every match is that at some point you get burned from a close game, and the 30yos will get fatigued as they have to take on more games, harder opponents.

Extremely proud of the record effort by Aussies though.

Next year I suspect the old legs being a year older will be perfect time to turn Bogut, Baynes, Mills, Delly, Ingles into roleplayers as the new gen join the fray.