Hoops

Bronze Medal Game

Going from 5-0 to start the tournament to deja vu, they did well, but you can only call the finish in their last 2 games a choke. Both games they had opportunities to just put the game away, but they tend to get loose, turn the ball over and take silly shots. Correct me if I'm wrong, but France and Australia prob both got the raw end on the schedule with both Argentina and Spain getting that extra day before the semi's?

- Goulding is too small to play against most of these euro's in the same position, absolute liability on the defensive, although he was getting constant elbow shots to the face that weren't being called. Did well in the early games, gave Mills some back up scoring, but crumbled when it mattered
- why was Delly taking a huge number of three's at the end, he even waved Patty away when there was 10 seconds left in the 3rd? Know your roll. Added to that there were so many periods at the end where the ball never went through Patty's hands
- again, Sobey, Gliddon and Barlow waste of space if you're not going to play them, I assume you have these guys to try and give you a spark when the chips are down, chips were down a lot and you'd think Gliddon would come on for a spot 3 at moments
- Bogut is a fucking sook, you're not being bailed out by the the NBL refs here, so I guess it must be cheating
- Simmons, those saying we are better off without him have lost their minds

Although they did have a good tournament looking at it objectively, unfortunately those of us who have been following them forever are again left with a bitter taste and the question, "are they ever going to win a medal"? This was easily the best chance we've had with the lower end players across the tournament.

"We also need more preparation games before Tokyo. We had less than most other teams for this world cup, all but one against non-European competition."

I don't agree rjd, we won our first 6 games of the tournament and were close to the most cohesive side. I don't think they need more than 5 games to get ready.

For me the image of the tournament was Delly walking off the court with a black eye. 6-2, such an enormous effort from the lads. Definitely need a deeper bench - wish we had Thon or Dante there.

Irregardless, onwards and upwards!

I assume the 5 is partly based on positions. Bogdanovic was deserved, unless you penalise him for Serbia's one loss in the quarters. Rubio probably would've made it regardless of gold, but that pushed him to MVP. So it was Mills vs Fournier for that last spot. Coin toss lands in the favour of the medal.

Rubio lol, his stats next to Mills ordinary. Winners are grinders I suppose, shows though you got fire at end tournament after your team got you there.

It's as if we didn't come fourth. Or even exist.

Obviously not part of the FIBA boy's club.

Mills snubbed for the All-Star Five.

Spain by 20.

Yes three subs on for there first 1.22 in tournament.

Spain sub on their three unused subs for the first time in the tournament with 1:22 left in the title game.

Re: lack of competitive games

Since Australia are in Eurovision now can we get a EuroBasket spot thrown in as well?

Watching the final Spain getting a lot calls again, Gasol is the greatest milker of fouls followed by Rubio and Llull, but all the Spanish players are good at it. Missed out on the US but both France and Spain are superb sides. We took Spain to double o/t and beat France once. An ounce luck and and it could been ours, yes our bench was a bit weak but they were best available bar perhaps Barlow. We didn’t medal but boomers and coaching staff can hold there heads high. Great effort by all.

Some thoughts

1. GREAT tournament. The team can hold their head high

2. Lemanis doubters, see ya. Bye bye. A medal was what we wanted, but 4th is still an over achievement compared to the expectations of most observers. He gets some credit for the way Australia played.

3. The NBL is rad- Goulding early in tourny, Kay and Creek late, All Blacks throughout- shows the NBL talent can perform on world stage

4. Patty Mills for PM.

5. This is tough to swallow. Did they deserve a medal? "Deserve" is a word some don't like but, wow, Given their overall level of play throughout Rio and Now China... yeah, they really should've walked away with silverware.

6. Being a lifelong St Kilda fan and a lifelong Boomers fan must be about the most mind-screwing sports fan combination ever.

We also need more preparation games before Tokyo. We had less than most other teams for this world cup, all but one against non-European competition.

Simmons is such a wildcard. We need Simmons to be integrated into the system, whether that be at point guard or point forward, or a combination. Hopefully Lemanis has a good idea after the last training camp, but you don't know until you face real opposition. We might need those extra games to see how Exum can be used, to see where Cooks slides in, and for players like Maker, Adel, Bolden and Landale to prove their worth.

Anon neither Cooks or Bolden were available. Cooks is injured and Bolden spat the dummy.

ME, I agree with your summation. The lack of games against quality teams hurts us. The gap between the mickey mouse Asia Cup games and serious tournaments like the World Cup is so great. The strong European teams are used to playing against each other regularly we only get to see them every 2-3 years. Spain's next level execution in that second OT was just too much for us.

Ran with Creek way too long in critical moments and it hurt us. Sad reality is if we kept Cooks and Bolden, even though it was out of our hands, we would have a medal right now. What is done is done though.

Simmons should actually play pg. Delly was horrid at making his own shot, yet he was the bail out guy. Fatigue hurt our backcourt. Mills was caught on taller players to often. But really we just threw to many stupid passes. Players looked tired when the offence broke down, not getting open when bogut picked up his dribble. Freethrows... you have to hit them

I honestly don’t think it’s lack of big game experience. Baynes, Bogut, Mills, Delly and Ingles all have lots of playoff games experience. I literally think the difference was not having the right end game strategy, plus fatigue from lack of depth. Patty was probably the best shooter in the entire tournament. If we’d just run a pick n roll for him and Baynes from the top of the key, Patty would’ve made more than he missed.

So as disappointing as the last two games were, I’m optimistic because the two things that cost us are easily fixable problems. Add Simmons, Exum and Broekhoff at the Olympics and we suddenly have a lot of depth, plus more high end talent.

If we can close games with Mills, Exum, Ingles, Simmons and either Broekhoff or Baynes (depending on matchups) I’d back that team to spread the floor and pick and roll nearly any team to death.

Can you imagine Spain or France trying to guard Simmons with Gasol, Gobert, Poirier, etc? They’d be in all sorts of trouble.

Well done to the guys for coming 4th, and I know they'll be even more gutted than we are as (generally) loyal fans.

Yes, they choked.

You can blame the player selections all you like, but those 9 guys were good enough to get us within a foul shot of playing for Gold, after lots of basic misses and sloppy turnovers. They were also good enough to get us 15 points up against one of the best teams in the world, again after lots of basic misses and sloppy turnovers and unusual reffing calls.

My thoughts:
- I think the choke started when Goulding was on, and he was left on far too long; this was a game he just wasn't suited for
- in the third quarter we went away from what worked in the first half: instead of frustrating the French through lots of passing and movement and combinations, we suddenly seemed to be trying to jack up shots after 1 pass, or playing iso, at a time when we needed to keep frustrating them by keeping possession and attacking the basket to draw the fouls
- some in this thread think that we should just go to basic p&r in the last quarter, like Spain and France did; don't forget that the Euro teams are expert at running it and beating it, whereas some of the picks we set were really pretty poor
- the French bigs seemed to have intimidated Baynes tonight - he seemed to yap a lot more at the refs, and didn't show many options or impact on offence
- I think the reffing this tournament has been pretty good UNTIL TODAY. There were too many weird calls, and not enough clamping down on the flopping which anyone could have predicted. I wouldn't assume that it was FIBA influence or a Philo ref getting revenge, but ...
- Joey might get more involved when he gets emotional, but I think he also gets too unfocussed and it gets in the way; we needed 15-20 points from him every game to take the heat off Patty
- much as I love Delly, he really is limited in his offence these days
- Patty really was brilliant!!
- Landale is a work in progress, good in patches but needs a lot more experience and consistency for me to lock him in for Tokyo
- Lemanis may very well be the coach to get us to the finals but not the coach to win them; I wouldn't get rid of him for that, but I would add someone to the coaching staff who might take more of a role towards the end, like a Guys Hiddink kind of coach

To much hindsight on this forum, for fuck sakes we hit a free throw we are in the final. If Bogut doesn’t get the worst call against Spain at the death we are in the finals. Yes fourth is not what we wanted but great result all round. We won six games straight, never done before. Get some half full glasses and not half empty. Go boomers.

"That's based largely on our performances at London, Beijing, and wherever the World Cups were between those two Olympics."

It's an 8-year cycle, so it was London 2012 (7th), Spain 2014 (12th) and Rio 2016 (4th) that have some bearing. Really, the rankings don't mean a lot.

In reality, USA is a clear first, then Spain, Argentina, Serbia, Lithuania, France and Australia are in a bunch after that, and not much really separate those teams. To have finished 4th at consecutive major tournaments is sensational, as annoying as it is right now.

"Maybe the Europeans are better because they have more big game experience."

European teams are currently 4-4 in knockout/medal round games this tournament (with 3 of those losses to non-European teams), that's not really a blistering record. In 2016 they were 4-5, in 2014 they were 8-9. Unfortunately, we keep going 1-2!

However, it's important not to think of Europe as one entity, it is made up of lots of talented basketball nations who have their share of successes and failures. This century, only three European countries have made more top 4 appearances than Australia.

The new world rankings system deserves its own thread. It is ridiculously complicated now. Also seems to screw over us for being in Asia.

Well it would be difficult for Landale to be worse.

I agree, rjd.
These tournaments have always been wars of attrition, and they are designed that way. They're brutal, and it becomes more apparent the deeper you go.

Guys like Kay, Creek & Goulding have proven that they can play a role. If they're our 10-11-12 guys in Tokyo instead of 7-8-9 then we can get some proper rest for our key players. Kay & Creek in particular will be better next time for this experience. So will Landale, I expect.

I still think there's plenty to be optimistic about.

We came in ranked outside the top 10.

TV time outs, the posters a troll, it’ll be Makur or Dave talking shit. Surprised they already are not on here already saying I told you so.

" Our offensive sets are too complex and take too much energy to keep running under pressure late in these high stakes games."

Agree with this. Alternative we could go with a deeper rotation to give our finishing lineup fresher legs. Delly and Mills looked so tired at the end of the last two games. Perhaps we need to be able to brush off the minnows more decisively or predominantly use our backups for these games.

We can get core international quality players into those 9-12 spots by adding Simmons, Broekhoff, Exum, Maker etc, so surely we should have the talent to rest some of our starters during the games against lower ranked opposition. This World Cup has been relentlessly intense for all of our core which surely played a role in these late game fade-outs.

If we don't get a new coach we are screwed. Calls a timeout when if he waited 30 more seconds there is a TV timeout. Enters the last quarter with only 1 timeout left.

That’s all on the coach

It wasn’t the refs
It wasn’t fatigue
It was a choke, pure and simple

I can appreciate France and Spain really stepping up in those 3rd and 4th quarters, but when we miss all our open 3s , simple layups rim out and we keep turning the ball over in fantastically amateurish fashion, we have clearly lost our nerve and the biggest impediment to wining a medal is the mental fragility ad focus of the playing group. I’m not sure of Lemanis’s caliber as a coach but the whole “we are going to win the gold medal and be greatest boomers evaarrr” mantra is too much expectation and pressure on the boys. We need to go into Tokyo with the GOAL of winning a medal but the FOCUS on putting other teams to the sword when we establish healthy leads.

If we don't get a new coach we are screwed. Calls a timeout when if he waited 30 more seconds there is a TV timeout. Enters the last quarter with only 1 timeout left.

We could really do with more depth. Delly was a warrior all tournament, but it's too much to expect him to play at that intensity for so long. Exum will offer that extra elite defensive presence.

We really missed Broekhoff too. His role is so underrated on this team.

Ideally, you want a situation where Delly, Mills and Baynes are backups, not main men on the team. That enables proper rest and lack of fatigue. Inserting Exum, Simmons and Broekhoff (sp) and the depth is there. Maker and Bolden probably help too. Just hope they can go with the heart shown by our blokes in this tournament. Gutted, yes. Proud as hell though, our guys never give up and punch above their weight. Hang in there people, a medal will happen. I've been watching since the bloody 1984 LA Olympics!

Yesterday you called me an idiot for suggesting the possibility. Fuck off with that bullshit.

And to think we were only one Mills missed free throw away from playing off for a gold medal. So close yet so far. What a nightmare! I cant imagine how gutted they would be right now.

If we don’t get a new coach we are screwed. Calls a timeout when if he waited 30 more seconds there is a TV timeout. Enters the last quarter with only 1 timeout left.

That’s all on the coach

Great tournament overall. Disappointing last two games.

The loss of Cook in the end hurt, Kay did very good but an extra long athletic player would’ve helped a lot. Tiredness and getting away from what we were good at down the stretch cost us. A lot went right early in the tournament but Dellavedova, Goulding, and even Mills shot deserted them. Throw Inglis in there as well. Landale was slightly out his depth as tournament went on, looks like a great future but more likely in Europe, as lacks athleticism.

"we rarely had wins just from general execution"

For most of this tournament almost every basket was from an assist out of the offensive system. This team executes bloody well when they are fresh.

As other people have said here though, things need to get more simple late in games and tournaments when you can't get through sets the same.

That said, we were never winning the bronze from the moment we slugged through double overtime on Friday. The guys did incredibly well to give themselves a real shot at it today, but they had to put it away early and they almost did, but not quite.

Credit to them for Australia's best-ever performance at an international tournament with a roster plenty of people were saying wouldn't get out of the group. A great team that ends with heartbreak, like too many Boomers teams before them unfortunately.

I agree about Lemanis.

Too predictable, too safe and has to carry some of the blame for the chokes.

Was horribly outcoached in the 2nd half of the list two games.

Time for a change IMO

Like I think just about everyone predicted, fatigue a factor at the end.

Just can't close out games.

As much as I hate to say it, deep down we all knew the choke was coming.

I certainly did, my wife said at half time, surely we can't lose this and I told her not to be shocked when France win.

We fall apart, get smasbed by the pick and roll and can't get any decent looks. It was the Spain game all over again.

Got way too complacent when we found ourselves ahead by 15 with 15mins left in the game. Not only the players but the coaching staff as well. Super proud of the boys but this sucks!!!! The Spain game hurt, and this added onto that. Very disappointing way to end our World Cup campaign.

Bogut poking the FIBA bear probably didn't help. They hate us enough without his special comments.

You don’t run Bogut from the post because his arm is buggered and so he’s not a great scorer. You do what the Euros do at the end of high pressure games: pick n roll with your best shooter and live or die with that. Our offensive sets are too complex and take too much energy to keep running under pressure late in these high stakes games.

Overall it was an amazing performance by these Boomers right up until the 4th quarter of the semi, so I have high praise for the coaches. But we have to learn from this and play the last 5 mins of big games differently.

I don't recall a single person 2 weeks ago calling this a medal-winning team.

Disappointing last 2 games but overall this was a good tournament for us.

The lack of quality shooting really shows up in high pressure moments. Mills is our only go to man. Really missed Broekhoff. Delly Ingles Goulding not consistent enough

Sack Lemanis!

Great commentary by Heal in the 3rd qtr when he said Ingles would have been saying to Gobert how much better the Aussies were than the French. Since that comment the French have absolutely pants us.

I don't recall a single person 2 weeks ago calling this a medal-winning team.

Disappointing last 2 games but overall this was a good tournament for us.

Lemanis end of game misery continues.