Hoops

36ers Indigenous round disgrace

The Adelaide 36ers are committed to celebrating the First Nation's Australians and beginning the journey to understanding and learning the spirit of reconciliation.

The 36ers' statement is a bit ...

The 36ers' statement is a bit ...

The Adelaide 36ers are currently talking with a number of interested Indigenous artists for the design of our Indigenous jersey. The club has not yet finalised who the Indigenous artist will be, but are happy to pay for the service or accept a volunteer service, depending on the wishes of the artist.

Elizabeth Close was one of the artists we approached to support us on this project and in hindsight we acknowledge it was not done so in the appropriate manner. In our learnings, we are extremely sorry for the hurt and offence we have caused to Elizabeth and her family and will ensure moving forward with these types of projects we do so in a way that is respectful.

The Adelaide 36ers are committed to celebrating the First Nation’s Australians and beginning the journey to understanding and learning the spirit of reconciliation. To ensure this is done so in the most culturally appropriate manner, we have now engaged 36ers ambassador Eddie Betts and his family to consult on the project. Eddie has worked to support other similar projects in the AFL with great success.

I assumed this point was easy to pick up.

Greggo, there are many facets to this issue worth discussing, which involves the exploration of ideas. Not everyone is arguing one 'side' or the other.

If it's an NBL initiative, which it seems to be, perhaps the NBL should be funding an artist or artists to design all of the indigenous round uniforms. Didn't First Ever design the recent City jersey range?

"Asking for the thread to be locked is not censorship"
Perhaps my statement wasn't clear enough to state that I'm referencing a future state, the end product of a request, not that the actual act of requesting is censorship. Although requesting cease in discussion is a form of advocating censorship. I assumed this point was easy to pick up.

Trying to swindle is going a bit too far.

They failed to communicate their budget upfront.

Swindle implies obtaining by deception, there was no deception there was miscommunication. There was no chance that Close was going to lose anything other than the time she took to quote and complain on social media.

Surely if you're going to the lengths of participating in an indigenous round, you allocate at least some budget, involve a relevant artist (even if just licensing their work) and then auction singlets to fundraise for an appropriate charity (maybe at the direction of the artist). Otherwise it's a pretty hollow gesture.

perhaps the 36er's could get an young up and coming artist to undertake the work for the great exposure they'll get.

We must have different definitions because censorship includes the 'suppression of speech', which locking a thread would do.

"If they contacted Jock Landale, got him in for a meeting, asked to provide his figure, then said actually you're a training guy and we'll pay you with some training gear... do you think he'd be perplexed?"

It wasn't an analogy. The topic of discussion was around payment for work. But to answer your question, I'd guess he would likely be perplexed. I'm not defending the 36ers here. There was an obvious breakdown of communication and, as Elizabeth noted, a lack of research on her.

If, for example, Ben Simmons was asked to train with the Boomers for free during a training camp in a campaign that he won't participate in, and therefore not be paid, I suspect he might be not be so perplexed. So it depends on the situation.

"Please tell me that wasn't a serious rebuttal to the point you were responding to."

It is a genuine question related to the quote. Do you have the answer?

"To suggest someone who wants to work for free is better than someone who expects to get paid is ludicrous and exploitative."

Just wondering, do players that attend training, but are not on an NBL roster, get paid? Or are they just there for the opportunity and experience to learn?

"Still ignoring the fact that it's illegal too."

From my experience, I noticed unpaid internships are extremely common as part of university courses. I did one myself. When was this law enacted?

"Your comments about the woke left and living in a bubble are just not worth responding to."

You do realise that Elizabeth actually mentioned trying to "look woke" in her message, like it was something she assumed they were trying to achieve, that having an Indigenous round is "virtue signalling"? So the woke left is entirely relevant in this: Elizabeth's facebook message was a textbook case.

Just curious, are you a regular here that is too cowardly to put any kind of name to your comments, or an intruder here for this particular controversy?

"Except for the fact that it isn't censorship at all."

We must have different definitions because censorship includes the 'suppression of speech', which locking a thread would do. I'm not running this site so they are free to do what they like, but if people don't like what's being written or the direction the speech is going, a simple alternative is to not read it.

Anons calling for a cease in discussion is the most compelling type of censorship.

Anons calling for a cease in discussion is the most compelling type of censorship.

"Its just a few colored dots couple of lines and with the help of my five year old, voilà singlet sorted."

I presume this must be a facetious post. I looked up some of Elizabeth Close's work and she's very talented. If she did accept the job, she probably would've produced something outstanding.

I thought last year's Hawks Indigenous uniform was excellent, probably my favourite NBL uniform in recent times. I had to look it up: designed by a University of Wollongong student that was interning at the Hawks, Harry Pitt, who interpreted another artist's work, Glen Sutherland. It's a shame that outrage gets you more attention than genuinely impressive actual work.

"Bit hard to take your rant seriously when you played the identity politics in the first place."

Identity politics is not in itself the defining of political groupings. I prefer arguing issue by issue, but sometimes labels are necessary, especially to define the new extreme left. Perhaps its not surprising for you to deny the bounce-back effect in political extremism (especially when freedom of behavior appears to be restricted) if you live in such a bubble.

"Why do you RWNJ's ..."

Stop you right there. I've been long known (on Ozhoops etc) as holding distinctly left-wing, libertarian views. It's the woke left that has perverted the left via identity politics, twisting minor disputes into opportunities to spread the woke activist message. To some degree this is represented in this thread. Unfortunately the loud, extremist minorities misrepresent the scale of their actual voice in society and spread their pathogenic extremist arguments via social media, effectively so with echo chambers that misrepresent the public's actual stance, helped along by click-bait media and its connection to the rise in offense culture, generating more support and disenfranchising the sensible moderates on either wing. This is why we have entered a global era trending towards political extremism. It is the woke left that has triggered a rise in right-wing extremism. I hate the trend towards tribalism in politics, but some labels are necessary to make groups distinct so that the sensible moderates can find a voice for themselves to go against the left extremists.

I'll do it.

Seriously, I'll do it. Comp me and my partner season tickets in a good spot and I'll knock out an indigenous round jersey for you.

I once shared an office with a guy who wanted to try a business marketing plan whereby our joint venture emailed every accountant in Australia asking them to quote for us, then every graphic designer, every videographer, every caterer, every promotional apparel company, every conference venue and so on. Creatively legalish spam for sure, but I disbanded that business partnership pretty quickly!

Everyone is arguing at cross purposes here which makes it a bit of a waste of time. It's sad that comprehension levels are so poor or that people enter with such bias (one way or another) that they wilfully misread. Another forum I frequent has "argue in good faith" as a rule, and there'd be absolutely none of that going on here!

It was a poor move by the 36ers to not disclose a lack of budget, especially when asking someone to quote. For a freelancer, quoting is a serious timesink. If you disclose up front that it is an unpaid opportunity, a business can make an immediate decision to ignore or reply "no".

Separately, there exist creatives who think that no one should ever work for exposure or contra, as an absolute rule. I don't agree with them, but they can mount a high horse at the mere suggestion. It is what it is, and this incident is the junction of the two scenarios.

The 36ers have a long, long history of trading for work. I offered partial trades when I worked with them, but I was interested in basketball so wasn't overly fussed and had tactics that meant the terms were favourable enough for me. You only have to look around a basketball stadium to see how many contra deals go on - cleaning, security, signage, etc. I did laugh at the artist's mention of a graphic designer getting paid because I'd bet small stakes that the majority of design or media arrangements with the 36ers over the last 20 years have involved contra portions.

It's possible (even likely) that this was an internal club miscommunication, but I think it's reasonable to call out the club on your personal Facebook page especially given that awkward situation of inviting free labour on a reconciliation theme. Tweet-length might've been enough though!

If you look at their volunteer page they want volunteer food vendors, bar workers, promo people, bloody EVERYTHING.

This happened over an event staged for Reconciliation.

Everthing to do with it is Aboriginal in context.

Can we just accept that the sixers were insensitive.

They have apologised and obviously will review their behaviour.

There is nothing Entitled about her response, she was obviously dissapointed they appeared to not value her work the same as others.She is a professional artist AND Aboriginal.

Can we not think she is a whinger because she wasn't prepared to cop it quietly.

Her Business Manager warned them it would not look good to the public.

Why did they not apologise then and say there had been a mistake made.

Are we not telling our kids that the "Harden up Buttercup" mantra is wrong.

#263. I guess you were a fly on the wall and know all the fine details. There is 2 sides to the story and 1 person shouts in public as loud as they can. Maybe the 36ers had a few issues dealing with her too, perhaps they should have come out swinging about about how bad she was to deal with. My point is the knee jerk reaction and judgements on who is right or wrong that everyone makes about what happened when we really don't know.
The 36ers are in lose/lose situation so will issue mandatory apology, etc, etc.

I'm sure may artist feel the way the person in question here does but hey that's life in the real world...just because someone calls you to discuss quoting work doesn't mean you'll get the job or be happy with the remuneration/package so hence you say know and find the next one!

You're acting emotionally and irrationally without arguing any of the points being made because they don't suit you. "DERP DERP right wing nut job (I had to google RWNJ). Just shut up if you're only going to respond with labels that make you feel better.

I get that she had not provided the service yet but I suspect Aboriginal people might be a little touchy about someone wanting to shaft them.

I love how the left wing looney above basically auto replied with rage at rjd's post with no argument. Point proven.

"but not you for suggesting that the race card was played (when it hasn't been)."

Did you or I misread the very first sentence? There is a specific reference to "*Aboriginal* artists" there. If this was an issue of exploitation of artists in general, then wouldn't you expect the label to be "artists" alone? She might have good reason to make it about Aboriginal artists specifically, but that is indeed a case of her inviting race into the issue. She even gloats about googling her, referencing her Qantas controversy where she again references "Aboriginal Artists" specifically.

Does she have a point if this is applied generally to artists? Ideally, yes, people shouldn't be expected to work for free. But in real-life, being approached for work pro bono happens often, especially if you are a student, new to the industry, or at the other end of the spectrum, perceived to be sufficiently successful to be willing to work pro bono for a particular cause. I've been approached many times for such work. If it doesn't appeal to me as a worthwhile 'charity' work, then I refuse. Simple. Can designing indigenous round uniforms be classified as a charity work? I can think of reasonable arguments either way on that, depending on information about the 36ers which I don't have.

Obviously the 36ers could've avoided this awkward exchange if they made it clear from the beginning that they didn't have the budget for this in the first place and could only offer tickets in exchange. Many people are still willing to offer their services for free for projects like this, whether they perceive themselves to be professional or not.

"Oh wow, you really are fucking thick Reality."

This kind of line of attack is typical of the woke left when the issue is logically drawn away from identity politics, the only battleground the woke left likes to engage in.

AdelaideNow abstract:

The Adelaide 36ers apologised to an Aboriginal artist after asking her to design an indigenous round jersey in exchange for free tickets and exposure — a request she rejected as unethical and exploitative.

So everyone is reacting to a facebook post. Good old social media. One side of a story. So people can post anything on social media and it must be true I guess. The outrage of everyone is so fake news. Sounds like a small communication issue.
I called the plumber too come quote a small job at my house. We have a bit of a communication issue about some details. I then vent and complain on facebook about his business. SJW.
If she doesn't like the way they go about about it then she should just move on. Or now maybe the 36ers should give their side of the story and trash her in public. Not good business sense for anyone.

Camel, that is what I read. They apologized, and have approached Eddie Betts to better educate themselves on how to handle the situation and the event. Criticize when being critical is needed, but priase when it is due also. A step in the right direction by the organization.

Seems the 36ers have apologised to the artist, on Adelaidenow.

Watch the movie : The Australian Dream

So what your saying Jack is that you were pissed by what they did and found a way to get your pound of flesh.

Hmmmmm

So i guess you understand her going to social media.

I get that she had not provided the service yet but I suspect Aboriginal people might be a little touchy about someone wanting to shaft them.

"It's not business to ask someone to provide a quote, then say you don't have any money."

This happens all the time. I had one lady once who told me she didn't have any money to pay for my work (once I finished it), and asked if I had any work on offer. I didn't, but I knew the only way to get anything out of her was for her to do some admin work for me that needed doing.

I had another a-hole refuse to pay me. After 12 months of giving me the run-around, he basically told me to F-off and wasn't going to pay. The work I did was of a legal nature in relation to his place of residence, which I then formally withdrew with the authorities. Needless to say, the fool will now be unable to sell his house unless I release my work, or he has to obtain the services of another professional, which is unlikely.

ME is on the money

actually it is business to ask for a quote , to see if you afford what yoking them to quote on. Just because someone gives a quote it does not mean you have to accept that. I

I would like to know how much the Thunderbirds paid for her design for their jerseys. That's pretty much the benchmark.

No Anonymous, you have a history of telling lies to try and make a point. I'm going to hedge my bets and say that this is another one of those situations.

See what I did there.

Mediocre artists (of either colour) get propped up by taxpayer funding. It's a fact.

Some - probably most of us - don't bitch and moan to the press when we don't get what we want.

If the artist was offended by the 36ers' approach, I think we all get that.

That doesn't mean she should get what she wants just because she wants it.

Poor form by the 36ers.
Ugly, entitled, identity politics played by the artist.
Too many sheep on this forum, falling victim to shared outrage.

No to many sheep on this forum understand how horrible the original people have been treated for centuries by this country. An hours work is entitled to an hours pay for everyone.

No doubt it was handled unprofessionally by the Sixers (again).

It's scary how so many people have no idea about government arts funding and how it works yet because the reality outrages them they simply call you a liar. Now that's a bubble!

Bravo John

Anonymous
A couple of hours ago

"Sorry, your quote is a little out of our budget, thanks for your time".

Crisis averted.

Wow. An anonymous with sound advice. Perhaps if you put your name to it, the 36ers could use you as a consultant.

Of course, you’d be expected to work for contra tickets. 1st consultancy service: “don’t offer free tickets for professional services”.

In saying that this particular individual is a massive crybaby when market force reality hits her.

Let me explain.

I know a number of mediocre artists who eek out a living. How do they do it? Via taxpayer funded grants from the federal government. It's a massive drain brought to you by Canberra. Under this system you can be an artist who is not commercially viable your entire career and still make a living.

In this case when interacting with actual private businesses like QANTAS or the Sixers and the market sets her worth at nil she feels outraged and unleashes on social media. Due to race the media publish otherwise non-newsworthy material about her rants, when her real issue is that she isn't worth what she thinks she is - the bubble of government funding has convinced her she can charge more than what her works are worth, make an income and be a professional artist. Delusion we pay for.

Sixers sure love doubling down.